wallabies definitly in starting side?

[Groucho]

What 90% of supporters want is usually a clear guide of what not to do.

Shit, there's folk on PR who'd have Giteau playing tighthead prop if it meant keeping Salesi Ma'afu out of the team.

Fixed that for you.

 

[H...]

Your constant insistence that Burgess is a better player than Genia is akin to me trying to say Saia Fa'ainga is a better player than TPN. Sheer fantasy.

Did TPN learn how to throw yet (serious question)?

 

[H...]

Fixed that for you.

Maybe we can Ma'afu at fly half the next time Cooper is out.

 

[Scotty]

Did TPN learn how to throw yet (serious question)?

I reckon he has got much better. Although he has his days, just like most hookers.

 

[DPK]

Is there actually a quote of someone saying that Burgess is better than Genia? I dont recall seeing anyone say that (apart from the live call).

IMO, Burgess isn't better than Genia, but like my opinion of Barnes vs Cooper, the Genia/Cooper combo is our starting pair but Deans still hasn't used his bench tactically to close out a game. Why not bring on Burgess, who is a good ball runner, in the last 20-15 minutes when the opposition forwards are slowing down?

 

[waratahjesus]

Burgess has had one good game for the Wallabies this year, the rest have been average and against weaker competition. Genia has been average in his games. Over their short careers, Genia has played better international and super 14 rugby that Burgess, who still can't pass (something is somewhat critical for a halfback).

I have said many a time it was ridiculous that Genia wasn't subbed early (say around 50mins) in Christchurch, because he looked like he wasn't up to the pace, however I still back him as a far superior half back to Burgess as I suspect most impartial supporters would.

Your constant insistence that Burgess is a better player than Genia is akin to me trying to say Saia Fa'ainga is a better player than TPN. Sheer fantasy.

i dont think i said he was a better player, i think i said he was in better form, Genia is below par and constantly playing someone cos he was good in super rugby or last year when it isnt working this year can mean alot of different things to alot of people (just ask the public debate on giteau).

as i said, if burgess was playing the same way genia is, you would be all over him in all your qld zealous to say how shit he is.

i agree burgess should have come on, genia runs himself ragged as most halfbacks do when there forward pack isnt protecting them and could use the support.

 

[Slim 293]

Did TPN learn how to throw yet (serious question)?

How many crooked throws did Fainga'a get away with last weekend?

TPN has a poor record, but did seem to improve his test throwing last year...

Fainga'a also has a poor record and only started to improve his Super 14 throwing this year...

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

TPN used to have a pretty ordinary lineout throw (like in his test debut in Auckland where he was woeful) but now it's good enough that we don't really have to worry about it. The other parts of his game, like in the loose and his scrummaging more than make up for it anyway.

 

[Joe Blow]

Genia seems to lack confidence since returning and is slowing down the play at the base of the breakdown. It could be that he is just waiting for his team mates to reset or he is being indescisive, an old failing of Luke Burgess'.
Burgess on the other hand has been very good at ensuring the Wallabies play a very fast paced game by recycling the ball very quickly. He is even seen digging into most rucks when the ball has been held up and then passing without taking a step. Genia has gone back to taking a step or two across field before passing, putting pressure on Giteau or whoever else is at 1st receiver.
They are both excellent defenders and very strong runners. For me Genia is the better all round player but is out of form right now. It wouldn't hurt to bring Burgess on for 20-30 minutes or even start him now and then until Genia gets his old game back.

 

[Slim 293]

I think part of Genia's problems right now is that he can't rely on his forwards, or his flyhalf (Giteau)...

Once we bring in Cooper and remove the dead weight from the forwards I do think we'll see Genia's effectiveness rise...

It's all very well and good to praise Burgess' form from that one game when he was partnered with Cooper and his team were playing very well... that single test over the past couple of years where he's been anything but poor...

 

[Joe Blow]

I think part of Genia's problems right now is that he can't rely on his forwards, or his flyhalf (Giteau)...

Once we bring in Cooper and remove the dead weight from the forwards I do think we'll see Genia's effectiveness rise...

It's all very well and good to praise Burgess' form from that one game when he was partnered with Cooper and his team were playing very well... that single test over the past couple of years where he's been anything but poor...

That game was recently and there is no point in Deans leaving him on the bench when Genia is not going so well.
It's like pulling teeth to get Deans to use his bench effectively. He was a little better in ChCh but Burgess would have been a good option around about the 60 min. mark.
I am a big fan of Will Genias but he has to be held to certain standards.

 

[Scotty]

i dont think i said he was a better player, i think i said he was in better form, Genia is below par and constantly playing someone cos he was good in super rugby or last year when it isnt working this year can mean alot of different things to alot of people (just ask the public debate on giteau).

as i said, if burgess was playing the same way genia is, you would be all over him in all your qld zealous to say how shit he is.

i agree burgess should have come on, genia runs himself ragged as most halfbacks do when there forward pack isnt protecting them and could use the support.

Give me a break, will you? You obviously selectively read my posts. There have been several where I criticised Genia's game last weekend and said he should have been taken off. What part of that don't you understand?

The difference between the two for me, is that Genia has proven to me that he has the potential to be a world class 9, where Burgess, despite having more opportunities has failed to do so.

 

[Scotty]

Genia seems to lack confidence since returning and is slowing down the play at the base of the breakdown. It could be that he is just waiting for his team mates to reset or he is being indescisive, an old failing of Luke Burgess'.
Burgess on the other hand has been very good at ensuring the Wallabies play a very fast paced game by recycling the ball very quickly. He is even seen digging into most rucks when the ball has been held up and then passing without taking a step. Genia has gone back to taking a step or two across field before passing, putting pressure on Giteau or whoever else is at 1st receiver.
They are both excellent defenders and very strong runners. For me Genia is the better all round player but is out of form right now. It wouldn't hurt to bring Burgess on for 20-30 minutes or even start him now and then until Genia gets his old game back.

We shouldn't discount the play of taking a few steps across field and then passing. Provided it is a play for the forwards. It actually works when you have the likes of Burgess or Genia, who are good runners. The defending forwards get sucked in towards the half, who then passes it to one of his forwards that is angling back in behind the defending forwards. Creates and angle and helps out running forward get across the line. Pity that there are only a few of our forwards that understand about running an angle. Sharpe is currently the best of them, but Alexander and TPN are better and Moore isn't too bad.

 

[waratahjesus]

Give me a break, will you? You obviously selectively read my posts. There have been several where I criticised Genia's game last weekend and said he should have been taken off. What part of that don't you understand?

The difference between the two for me, is that Genia has proven to me that he has the potential to be a world class 9, where Burgess, despite having more opportunities has failed to do so.

sorry scotty, im not selectively picking on you or saying your wrong, i have a different opinion which i am voicing. ive asked the same question twice which you have selectively ignored or answered with a response to a different question.

i will ask it one more time, If burgess was starting and playing the same way genia is currently would you or would you not be calling for him to be dropped?

and on your last point, "genia has the potential", potential dont win trophies.

 

[Scotty]

sorry scotty, im not selectively picking on you or saying your wrong, i have a different opinion which i am voicing. ive asked the same question twice which you have selectively ignored or answered with a response to a different question.

i will ask it one more time, If burgess was starting and playing the same way genia is currently would you or would you not be calling for him to be dropped?

and on your last point, "genia has the potential", potential dont win trophies.

You didn't ask a question at all, you made a statement.

as i said, if burgess was playing the same way genia is, you would be all over him in all your qld zealous to say how shit he is

But the answer to the question is yes, I would be calling for him to be dropped. However much of that is on the basis of their historical performances. By my reckoning Burgess had a good game about 1 in 4 for the wallabies, while Genia is more like 3 in 4.

 

[waratahjesus]

You didn't ask a question at all, you made a statement.



But the answer to the question is yes, I would be calling for him to be dropped. However much of that is on the basis of their historical performances. By my reckoning Burgess had a good game about 1 in 4 for the wallabies, while Genia is more like 3 in 4.

what do you rate genia this year alone?

 

[Langthorne]

The question is how many bad games would Genia have to play for him to be dropped, or at least cease to be a "definite"?

 

[Scotty]

A lot of questions for me today.

Genia in the 3N

vs Boks - good
vs ABs 1 - average
vs ABs 2 - poor

1.5 out of 3

Bad games to be dropped:

Probably one more if it was as bad as vs the ABs. I would also suggest if he was playing that bad again, and Deans didn't bring Burgess on at all, maybe it is Deans that should be dropped?

 

[vidiot]

I thought Genia continued his 'average' form in Christchurch through until he completely died in the second half and stopped getting to rucks, when he clearly should have been subbed. To my way of thinking, that was Dean's failing - no player in the contest puts their hand up to go off, unless they have entirely the wrong attitude (or they are actually significantly injured!).

I wonder if we will see a miraculous return to form with the return of Cooper at 10. I don't think that it is a coincidence that players look good inside or outside Cooper, and look ordinary inside or outside Giteau.

 

[DPK]

I thought Genia continued his 'average' form in Christchurch through until he completely died in the second half and stopped getting to rucks, when he clearly should have been subbed. To my way of thinking, that was Dean's failing - no player in the contest puts their hand up to go off, unless they have entirely the wrong attitude (or they are actually significantly injured!).

I wonder if we will see a miraculous return to form with the return of Cooper at 10. I don't think that it is a coincidence that players look good inside or outside Cooper, and look ordinary inside or outside Giteau.

I think that a good indication of when a scrumhalf is taking too long to pass from the ruck is when the opposition has time to stop at the ruck and then launch a counter ruck.

If the opposition has time to think about getting on the front foot in defense, you're taking too long