Wallabies - a changing of the guard

[Hugh Jarse]

General agreement on the new coach.

Hornets nest opened up on selections.

I think that Link will start out fairly conservatively, and may even surprise a few keyboard selectors.

 

[JJJ]

Pfitzy, I think under the game plan Ewan will likely use making the best of the players at his disposal, a more classic Australian running game plan will be adopted. Based on that I'd have Hooper over Gill. Gill's superior pilfering is more of a strength if you are intending to kick the pill away and wait for errors.

Dunno about that. Turnover ball from an unexpected pilfer is just about the best attacking ball there is, bar intercepts. Which would fit in nicely with an Aussie running game plan, and has.

Edit: besides, Pocock should be back soon. Might as well get used to a pilfering 7 now.

 

[lewisr]

General agreement on the new coach.

Hornets nest opened up on selections.

I think that Link will start out fairly conservatively, and may even surprise a few keyboard selectors.

Agree on this. Wouldn't put it past him to make some controversial decisions on pivotal positions. But when you say conservatively, I think that will mean playing tested combinations that he knows (9,10 surprise surprise) for a Rugby Championship that opens up in 6 weeks time.

Even if he thinks To'omua is the right option in the long run, I don't see that decision being made for the first test against the Darkness.

Number 3, 4, 7, Palu (as much as I like him in the third test, he really stepped it up I thought), 11 and 15 are all places that will be interesting to see what way he goes.

 

[Beefcake]

What other options did he have at the time?

Well QC (Quade Cooper) unique skillset is difficult to replicate that the reds struggled to play with his replacements for a period of time. Unlike other clubs, with traditional 10s with a drip of x-factor, QC (Quade Cooper) is a pool of x-factor devoid of core 10 responsibilities. Given the wobblies have also failed to sound out a permanent 10, there has been no continuity. My thoughts would be McKenzie would go for a 10 with balance (core responsibilities & x factor) which Beale, To'omua and Lilo, all have the right temperament to become world class 10s, in modulating their x-factor accordingly with their core 10 roles. Perhaps this is important for continuity and structure. I think of the ABs and the DCarter replacements, noone particularly 'razzledazzle' but all are balanced, and when injury strikes the team isn't put off. QC (Quade Cooper) has yet to develop that balance, but this does not mean that he can't and under MacKenzie he may well.

 

[lewisr]

Unlike other clubs, with traditional 10s with a drip of x-factor, QC (Quade Cooper) was a pool of x-factor devoid of core 10 responsibilities.

Fixed that for you. This is going to reignite the old QC (Quade Cooper) debates but I think, apart from goal kicking, he is actually a very good distributor, tactical kicker, game manager and aligner. I am not saying he is the traditional flyhalf, but that in no way means he cannot take on the core 10 responsibilities with great success (and this has been proven time and time again). Will Genia does far less game management when Quade is around and their skill set compliments each other greatly, as would the cool headedness of Lilo.

There is no other 10, apart from To'omua in a different 'Larkhamesk' type of approach, that can orchestrate a back line like Quade can. Just because he can pull off moments of brilliance doesn't mean he is a pool of x-factor without any foundation skills of a flyhalf. He has come a long way since 09/10 and especially this year has shown that when playing flat at the line, can direct a team around the park effectively.

The question about Quade is not whether he has the core skills to be a flyhalf, but rather if his error rate is too high or whether he has the big game temperament to be an international 10. With his style comes inherent risks in intercepts, charge downs, knock ons, passes going to ground, missing chip kicks etc. etc. If we can gain enough off the tries he can set up, these errors become redundant, but if the pressure gets to him and he collapses, then it will good bye to Quadey and he can kiss his Wallabies Jersey good bye. The first test against the Darkness will be a good indication of how this all unfolds.

 

[Beefcake]

Fixed that for you. This is going to reignite the old QC (Quade Cooper) debates but I think, apart from goal kicking, he is actually a very good distributor, tactical kicker, game manager and aligner. I am not saying he is the traditional flyhalf, but that in no way means he cannot take on the core 10 responsibilities with great success (and this has been proven time and time again). Will Genia does far less game management when Quade is around and their skill set compliments each other greatly, as would the cool headedness of Lilo.

There is no other 10, apart from To'omua in a different 'Larkhamesk' type of approach, that can orchestrate a back line like Quade can. Just because he can pull off moments of brilliance doesn't mean he is a pool of x-factor without any foundation skills of a flyhalf. He has come a long way since 09/10 and especially this year has shown that when playing flat at the line, can direct a team around the park effectively.

The question about Quade is not whether he has the core skills to be a flyhalf, but rather if his error rate is too high or whether he has the big game temperament to be an international 10. With his style comes inherent risks in intercepts, charge downs, knock ons, passes going to ground, missing chip kicks etc. etc. If we can gain enough off the tries he can set up, these errors become redundant, but if the pressure gets to him and he collapses, then it will good bye to Quadey and he can kiss his Wallabies Jersey good bye. The first test against the Darkness will be a good indication of how this all unfolds.

I disagree, but see your point. I'd argue QC (Quade Cooper) is a poorer 10 because his game management revolvess solely around his brilliance and lacks an ability to unleash the firepower around him according to game environment, which are core 10s responsibilities (Larkham, DCarter, Lynagh), that is to complement rather than rule thoughtlessly.

 

[Joe Blow]

QC (Quade Cooper) is excellent at implementing a game plan, keeping his side on the attack by putting runners into little gaps and half gaps. He also has great vision on the field and can identify opportunities several phases ahead with the passing game to exploit them. He is a true 5/8. I would also suggest his kicking game is far superior to that of Beale and JOC (James O'Connor) and he is a pretty handy goal kicker.
I was very impressed with how he was playing earlier in the Super season.

His toxic comment last year was ill considered but probably accurate. The manner in which he has responded to being excluded from the test squad since has shown maturity beyond that of his former amigo buddies.
If he does not become the accomplished test 5/8 most were hoping for in the next 12 months under Link I would be very surprised.

 

[Dan54]

I think QC (Quade Cooper) has learnt well from his stuff ups, but also hasn't been in test team to be the star, so will just hope he has learnt lesson. I somehow think Link will stand or fall on how QC (Quade Cooper) performs at test level!!

 

[Scotty]

If QC (Quade Cooper) is selected I wouldn't have him doing the clearing kicks though - too much of a pop gun at times. Defensive kicks can be done by Mogg while attacking kicks can be done by QC (Quade Cooper). (Folau is going to love his kick pass.)

 

[vidiot]

Quade can skip doing the charge-down kicks.

 

[fatprop]

Link is one of the great pragmatic coaches, if he thinks Cooper is the best test option, he will make the selection compromises to cover for his clear and obvious weaknesses.

At the Reds that means selecting someone to tackle for him so he could move to 15 in defence for "counter attack".

Deans went through the same dilemma when he wore out Digby as Cooper moved to "defend" on the wing until the ABs isolated Cooper and tore him a new one.

So who does he select for that defensive role in the Wobs?

If Link's conventional approach of having him move to 15 is the prime option, who does pick as the "tackler?"

The favourite 15 options would be Mogg or Folau or Beale - they would be wasted as they are all known primarily for their attacking prowess.

You would think To'omua @ 15, he would be the best defensive option to do Cooper's work

 

[Pfitzy]

To anyone saying Alexander is the serving best LHP in the country - tell me, how much game time has he spent there recently?

Look, the fact is he's only holding up one side of the scrum while he waits for a chance to run the ball. Wrong attitude. Talk all you like about scrums being a minor part of the game, but you simply can't bleed points and territory like that with a bad scrum.

Or reputation is not in that area if the game, but you can't score tries or win games without the pill, and you can't keep it unless you earn it. Alexander has flaws that either he or his coaching staff are unwilling to address, so he goes. Same as Beale and O'Connor have flaws when it comes to being responsible humans.

His toxic comment last year was ill considered but probably accurate. The manner in which he has responded to being excluded from the test squad since has shown maturity beyond that of his former amigo buddies.

My 9yo had more maturity about his decision making than either of those twats.

Quade still concerns me, particularly as Link will brook no criticism of him it would seem. He's hardly been the dominant force at QLD this year that he was in past, which is partly due to his pack's failures, but partly due to his headless chicken moments in the contact area.

I know he's always seeking to create opportunity, but this needs to be tempered with stability and acceptance that in test rugby things are a little tighter than provincial.

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I hate autocorrect ...

 

[vidiot]

It wouldn't surprise me if Cooper actually defended at 10, if only for Link to show it can be done.

(And to prove his point that he only defends at 15 for the Reds because it suits the team overall)

 

[Langthorne]

Clear out - players not totally commited to the success of the team, players not up to the task, injured and out of form players.

No guaranteed places. No one out forever. All you must do is fulfill the requirements.

Play players in their correct position.

 

[Scotty]

Link is one of the great pragmatic coaches, if he thinks Cooper is the best test option, he will make the selection compromises to cover for his clear and obvious weaknesses.

At the Reds that means selecting someone to tackle for him so he could move to 15 in defence for "counter attack".

Deans went through the same dilemma when he wore out Digby as Cooper moved to "defend" on the wing until the ABs isolated Cooper and tore him a new one.

So who does he select for that defensive role in the Wobs?

If Link's conventional approach of having him move to 15 is the prime option, who does pick as the "tackler?"

The favourite 15 options would be Mogg or Folau or Beale - they would be wasted as they are all known primarily for their attacking prowess.

You would think To'omua @ 15, he would be the best defensive option to do Cooper's work

I don't think Link will compromise selections to hide Cooper in defense. Cooper will likely defend in the front line and Link will pick the best 15 for the job - Folau or Mogg for mine.

If Cooper can't defend in the front line then he will find himself benched or out all together.

I do however expect Cooper to get a roving role when the opposition is within their own 30, which will allow him to add his linking ability to any counter attack off kicks or quick line outs.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It wouldn't surprise me if Cooper actually defended at 10, if only for Link to show it can be done.

(And to prove his point that he only defends at 15 for the Reds because it suits the team overall)

But on this cooper defending @ 10 thing did you notice how wide both Carter and Cruden defended last week?
True it was off phase play by you couldnt say that either of them are defending as 10s, I reckon.

 

[Ignoto]

But on this cooper defending @ 10 thing did you notice how wide both Carter and Cruden defended last week?
True it was off phase play by you couldnt say that either of them are defending as 10s, I reckon.

Carter has been hidden in defence by the All Blacks and Crusaders throughout his career while not consistently, there are plenty of cases when he does.

Cruden on the other than, well I for one have it burden in my mind how Quade stepped him in Wakiato to go under the sticks untouched!

 

[Train Without a Station]

Carter has been hidden in defence by the All Blacks and Crusaders throughout his career while not consistently, there are plenty of cases when he does.

Cruden on the other than, well I for one have it burden in my mind how Quade stepped him in Wakiato to go under the sticks untouched!

I watched a Bledisloe classic on Foxtel not too long ago. Larkham spent a lot of time defending on the wing. Also threw a pass to nobody. Rose coloured glasses perhaps?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Carter has been hidden in defence by the All Blacks and Crusaders throughout his career while not consistently, there are plenty of cases when he does.

Cruden on the other than, well I for one have it burden in my mind how Quade stepped him in Wakiato to go under the sticks untouched!

Certainly the Kiwis dont have the same expectations for any of their 10s in relation to defence as we have - but DC, in particular, is spending most of his time 2nd last on the line.

 

[Train Without a Station]

When they have a good defensive reputation it's saving them for attack. When they have a bad one it's hiding them from defense.