Wallabies 31 Man Squad

[USARugger]

With the squad he's picked so far I would expect MMM to make it through based on his utility as a 6/Lock. He's also a more physical ball carrier (imo one of the most in all of Oz) which will tilt the odds in his favor considering who we are going to be playing. Douglas will be unfortunate to miss out.

It will essentially boil down to A) What type of pack dynamic Deans wants in terms of the line out mostly, B) MMMs carrying and aggresiveness + utility vs. Douglas' experience and ability to disrupt the maul

 

[lewisr]

It seems we all agree (obviously) that there will be a 4th lock and 2nd scrumhalf in the additional 6. There is also a general consensus on there being a 5th prop.

Of the remaining three, chances are we will see another 6/8, 10 and 12. That last spot is hard to pick...

I would put my money on McCabe to be back in the squad. The way Robbie was talking about him was as though he had him pencilled in until the injury occurred. Obviously that relies on whether he recovers.

 

[Riptide]

The Lions have Cian Healy and Gethin Jenkins as their LHs. Neither are dominating scrummagers but both can hold up their side of the scrum, so to speak. However, both are extremely mobile and Healy, in particular is a very strong ball carrier. So, I'd love to see Palmer in the squad as insurance; the Wallabies will have a solid set-piece but they need the really lock down the TH side and Palmer provides that insurance.

On the TH side, Gatland is sure to favor Welshman Adam Jones over Cole but Jones must truly be the most ineffective Test TH around the park. Watching Wales vs England again from this years 6N, it was evident how little work Jones really does about the park; he just can't move. Cole is a good scrummager and he is excellent at the breakdown, but Gatland will go with the Welshman.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Good too see Robbie lobbing grenades via the media actually. Perhaps he is more suited to politics.

He should cop the same punishment QC (Quade Cooper) did when he pissed on one RD.
Childish, small minded, bullshit.
He's lost me on this.


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[Inside Shoulder]

I wouldn't be surprised if Deans doesn't take a 5th prop, but does take a 3rd hooker and 4th lock.

Logic behind the no 5th prop is that he has a couple of guys who Deans probably thinks can cover both loosehead and tighthead in Kepu, Alexander and Slipper. Palmer or Ryan would've likely been the 5th prop (assuming Sio is considered too you and inexperienced), and they're both specialist tightheads. You could say that Slipper and Kepu are more tightheads than looseheads currently, and Alexander has mostly played at tighthead for the Wallabies.

Third scrumhalf? I reckon Deans won't take a third scrumhalf. If he was, then White would have been called up already, with Burgess to maybe follow later. Instead Deans is waiting on Burgess' availability (which I think is harsh on White, but that's another story). Although, it wouldn't surprise me if Deans ends up choosing Phipps, not because I agree, but because, well, it's Deans.

If it was a touring squad, though, you'd definitely have the 5 props, 3 hookers, 4 locks (or one backrow who is a genuine lock cover, moreso than Dennis) and 3 scrumhalves.

That will mean that the final makeup of 6 players to come in may also look like (along with who I expect Deans to select in brackets):
1 hooker (Hanson?)
1 lock (Douglas or MMM)
1 halfback (Burgess, Phipps or White)
1 centre (McCabe, otherwise A. Finger if McCabe is injured)
1 fullback / flyhalf cover (Beale, if Beale is out, maybe Cooper, but I really think Cooper won't be picked from here)
1 anything - can't second guess Deans here; could be the 5th prop, 3rd halfback (unlikely), or another wing/fullback if Beale is not available, like Mogg or Mitchell

The two least covered positions in the backline are 13 with just AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), and 10 with mainly JOC (James O'Connor) (as I doubt that Deans will put a debutant 10/12 at 10 when he has played at 12 all year bar one game, where he didn't shine, and, this is me surmising, Barnes is considered more of a 12 / 15). This implies to me that McCabe and Beale (if available) are certain selections.

This is the illogicality of the process.
As long as there's a back up 9 in the extra 6 the other 5 could be from subbies.


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[madflyhalf]

If MMM would come back soon, regaining his form previous to the injury, I think he will be selected.
Along with Douglas.

The final 6.

1 - IMO if Burgess is available, there is no need for a third SH; Burgess will stick there immediatly, Wallabies doesn't need another bench warmer.
Paradoxically, the only reason behind a 3rd SH is Burgess unavailable: in this case I think both Phipps and White would be called, with the former as the one who has experience at test level, and the latter as the one to be tested in the Wallaby camp.

(Still think you can't go into a Lions series with a debutan scrum half)

2 - a front rower: he didn't know how serious was TPN injury, he probably tried to save a place for him, no place for a third hooker if not fit -> maybe he'll call a tighthead specialist (Ryan on Palmer, depending on form)

3 & 4 - Both Douglas and McMeniman (if MMM will be fit).

5 - Ben Tapuai or, hopefully not, Pat McCabe

6 - Beale if sober enough; if not maybe Cooper or a winger

 

[Rassie]

The Lions have Cian Healy and Gethin Jenkins as their LHs. Neither are dominating scrummagers but both can hold up their side of the scrum, so to speak. However, both are extremely mobile and Healy, in particular is a very strong ball carrier. So, I'd love to see Palmer in the squad as insurance; the Wallabies will have a solid set-piece but they need the really lock down the TH side and Palmer provides that insurance.

On the TH side, Gatland is sure to favor Welshman Adam Jones over Cole but Jones must truly be the most ineffective Test TH around the park. Watching Wales vs England again from this years 6N, it was evident how little work Jones really does about the park; he just can't move. Cole is a good scrummager and he is excellent at the breakdown, but Gatland will go with the Welshman.

Big packs are easy to counter. You only give them the ball after you made them a bit tired first.

 

[Alex]

The Lions have Cian Healy and Gethin Jenkins as their LHs. Neither are dominating scrummagers but both can hold up their side of the scrum, so to speak. However, both are extremely mobile and Healy, in particular is a very strong ball carrier. So, I'd love to see Palmer in the squad as insurance; the Wallabies will have a solid set-piece but they need the really lock down the TH side and Palmer provides that insurance.

On the TH side, Gatland is sure to favor Welshman Adam Jones over Cole but Jones must truly be the most ineffective Test TH around the park. Watching Wales vs England again from this years 6N, it was evident how little work Jones really does about the park; he just can't move. Cole is a good scrummager and he is excellent at the breakdown, but Gatland will go with the Welshman.

Riptide, I agree with your assessment of who will be picked but I do think you may underrate their scrummaging ability. Jones is a bit of a potplant in modern parlance but few ever get any change out of him at scrum time. Recall the last lions tour when the beast won the first test for SA by destroying Vickery. Jones was brought in and that was the end of Springbok scrum dominance. I suspect that Jones and Fatcat will ultimately play out an honourable draw.

I am a bit more worried about the other side - I suspect Healy is not very technical but he is very strong. When he gets a decent bind he can monster people, but it seems to me that he has a problem in that he doesn't hold his side of the scrum up very well (perhaps a bit like Fuse). I would be interested to hear the opinions of the veteran front rowers on the site, but I suspect Healy spends so much time on the bench press that he has lost the flexibility in his shoulders. He seems to have real difficulty getting a decent high bind and often goes to ground. Against a guy like Alexander this can be a problem because of his tendency to hinge. In the WC their side of the scrum was a shambles - Lawrence blamed Alexander and half dozen scrum penalties was the story of the match. Whether he was right or wrong is moot, when Healy got a decent bind he killed Alexander, when he didn't he won a penalty - could easily happen again. I am nervous about Alexander starting against Healy.

 

[redstragic]

'''Benny Taps' is evidence of Quade not quite getting that balance right. He's not thriving outside him. He's got to be prepared to allow others to do some of the playmaking as well as himself,'' Deans told Brisbane's Triple M.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...-says-coach-20130520-2jwz3.html#ixzz2TrzTe8ly


I know we have talked about this but it makes me angry. Dingo is critical of just one player. Who else does he talk about publicly in this way. It is divisive stuff, Quade won't play the first test, we'll get pole axed (for many reasons other than how the 5\8 player), then we'll be in a total mess for the second.


Also on the tackling thing, Cooper did take down Ranger whilst JOC (James O'Connor) got run over. Deans is strangely quiet in his media missives on this point.

 

[USARugger]

Sorry but any coach that talks about a player the way Deans has talked about Quade in the media is a disgrace to the profession of coaching. You DO NOT publicly sledge your players this way or especially how he did at/after the RWC. This shows nothing but a complete lack of integrity and basic professionalism and actually makes my blood boil. The fact that it is Quade is inconsequential to me here, you just do not do this if you are a coach at any level.

I've done coaching work with my university side (incoming freshmen) and never in a million years would I even think of saying these types of things about individual players in a public setting, much less to the Australian news media.

The only thing more beautiful than a woman walking away will be YOU walking away Mr. Deans. Hopefully right off the coast and into the ocean.

 

[Richo]

Deep breaths, people. There are pages of comments about what Deans said about Cooper and Taps.

 

[fatprop]

Sorry but any coach that talks about a player the way Deans has talked about Quade in the media is a fucking piece of shit and a disgrace to the profession of coaching. You DO NOT publicly sledge your players this way or especially how he did at/after the RWC. This shows nothing but a complete lack of integrity and basic professionalism and actually makes my blood boil. The fact that it is Quade is inconsequential to me here, you just do not fucking do this if you are a coach at any level.

The only thing more beautiful than a woman walking away will by YOU walking away Mr. Deans. Hopefully right off the fucking coast and into the ocean.

Deans clearly can't win, he states the obvious, confirms he has been in discussions with a player and when asked lists the areas he believes the player has to improve and gets slated

He also would have been slated if he refused to comment

It is interesting that the same type of comments were made to Mowen last season and he took it on board and worked to improve his game

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[USARugger]

Deans clearly can't win, he states the obvious, confirms he has been in discussions with a player and when asked lists the areas he believes the player has to improve and gets slated

He also would have been slated if he refused to comment

It is interesting that the same type of comments were made to Mowen last season and he took it on board and worked to improve his game

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You don't "man-blame" your players anywhere outside of personal conferences.

Saying that Quade was the reason Taps has been playing poorly is not only incredibly inaccurate, it was incredibly unnecessary. Saying that he talked to Quade and that at this point QC (Quade Cooper) did not seem capable of fulfilling the role Deans wanted him to fill during the BIL series was all that needed to be said.

Rugby is a 'we', not a 'you' sport.

Maybe Deans can't win because this recent set of events shows either a personal vendetta or the much more likely truth that Deans is a man of poor character with little integrity or respect for his players.

 

[Scotty]

Deans clearly can't win, he states the obvious, confirms he has been in discussions with a player and when asked lists the areas he believes the player has to improve and gets slated

He also would have been slated if he refused to comment

It is interesting that the same type of comments were made to Mowen last season and he took it on board and worked to improve his game

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I don't remember Deans saying that Mowen's form impacted on another player?

In any case it does look like Cooper has taken Deans comments on board. From the start of the season he has been better in defense and after about 4 games was more direct and ran more in attack. There was one game (I think it just happened to be the one after Deans caught up with him at suncorp) where Cooper ran the ball a lot (some here said too much.

So is it really Deans that can't win, or is it Cooper?

 

[Scrubber2050]

seems like a lot of bullshit to me - spin spin and more spin to justify the non selection

 

[USARugger]

Not saying I agree with all of this video but it had me in stitches. For some reason dubbing over this clip rarely gets old.

 

[terry j]

Exactly. We can't have those guys in the NH going around telling everyone how weak Australian rugby is because they bored us to death in a three test series.

maybe that's the plan? If we can bore the fans, maybe we can bore the lions, if we bore the lions we might catch them napping?

Dumbarse question alert. Is the final squad that is picked THE FINAL squad? Meaning (hearking back to either two or three SH's that has been talked about) scrumhalf one goes down, AND scrum half two also goes down, then for the remainder someone from within the final squad has to cover, no-one can be called up during the series for any reason whatsoever?

I ask, because as I understand it that rule does not apply in other test series, or does it?

 

[terry j]

That clip is so versatile! From this to parking restrictions (say), it just works man!

 

[fatprop]

So is it really Deans that can't win, or is it Cooper?

Both, but in the medium to short term Deans wins, he is the coach, he will select the side he wants.

Whether you agree with the thinking or not, the number of pages on hear is not going to change Dean's mind

From the start of the season he has been better in defense and after about 4 games was more direct and ran more in attack

I think this summarises Deans thinking, a bit from Paul Cully

Early on Sunday morning, Wallabies Robbie Deans woke from a couple of hours’ sleep and sat down watch the Cheetahs v Reds match from Bloemfontein. Within 10 minutes Quade Cooper had fallen off a couple of tackles, thrown two forward passes and coughed up a ruck penalty with a clumsy cleanout that cost his side three points.

On the other side of the ledger there were some lovely weighted kicks, which were unlucky not to produce two tries over the course of the game. It probably confirmed existing thoughts rather than changed them..................................

.................................But theories about Cooper’s lack of physicality are on the money. Improvements have been sought and to a certain extent delivered – he defended in the frontline for most of the Cheetahs game. But there are still chinks there and once Deans had made the decision, after the 2011 World Cup, that the days of finding ‘‘creative’’ solutions for one player’s fallibility in contact were over Cooper’s value began to erode.

Privately, the coach is aware that shifting an individual away from the tough frontline defensive duties risks being perceived as reward for avoiding the nasty work. And in attack, Cooper has not taken contact as much as the coach demands................

...............The series will be a little less fun if Cooper plays no part of it. But the reasons for his exclusion are fathomable. Deans saw too much risk, and just not enough reward.

 

[biggsy]

Still got love QC (Quade Cooper), Deans is just back peddling. I'm sure you are still the only one to stop ranger of late. Even over the weekend blokes got destroyed by him.

I have your back buddy.



We have a 25 man squad and yet cooper not being selected is the biggest topic at the moment. Even on social media,
I'm not happy,but he is not there and I'm not surprised as well. Maybe this is the way the ARU is saying mess with us, we mess with you.

At the end of the day the guys selected will give there all on he paddock.

These blokes are the best in Aus at the moment and have the talent. In my opinion when you have this much talented in one team it all come down how the team is coached and managed not the players. And thats where we are struggling.

Trust me I know, I have coached kids in mini basketball and won 5 premiships in the early 90's and the pressure was intense.