Wallabies 31 Man Squad

[lewisr]

There was plenty of information going around at the time that Giteau was considered disruptive to the squad if he wasn't in the starting XV. I think that is the main reason why Giteau wasn't selected. Once he'd fallen out of the starting lineup he was viewed as being a negative towards the overall squad and was left out.

You're just proving my point mate... Anyone who doesn't see that there is an issue with Deans' and his man management is either deliberately ignoring it or doesn't know anything about leadership and the role of a manager.

He is supposed to be the mature, 50 year old (how old is the bloke?) coach of the wallabies and yet for some reason he ends up in these grudges with 20 year old sportsmen over a few comments they make. It is widely accepted (even by lord Richie himself) that it's Deans' way or the highway, and when working with young, enigmatic and overconfident play makers this simply doesn't cut it.

Frankly, the reason he chooses O'Connor over Cooper is because he can't manage Cooper. He doesn't have the ability to get the best out of him. And yes, this makes his claim that he has 'chosen the players that he thinks will win the series' under his coaching absolutely true. It does not make it excusable that the reason he has omitted others in the present and past is because he cannot coach them.

Richo, you can paraphrase me all you want but I have admitted time and time again that Cooper makes mistakes. He makes extremely costly mistakes that have resulted in tries and indirect game losses. But to continually highlight them and imply a double standard on others is what annoys me. Genia had a horrible night in Bloemfontein, and yet all we can talk about is the fact that QC (Quade Cooper) missed a tackle on a charged down Genia box kick. Or that fact he threw a few forward passes.

For those who don't believe that Robbie is over his grudge with Quade, have a read of this article:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...er-toxic-comment/story-e6frg7v6-1226646285152

As I said, and will say again, Cooper makes mistakes. As does every rugby player including RD's choice at flyhalf.

 

[Allsports]

Totally agree Ash with your halfback comment, Burgess should not get inside running on White or Phipps, White has been excellent for 2 seasons now & servicing the Brumbies backline well & kicking them out of trouble which has kept them in many games, Phipps less consistent, doesn't have White's kicking game but plays well at Super level. A real kick in the guts for these two. No more than Cooper & Mogg are feeling tho. Politics. I wonder how their coaches ( White & McKenzie) pick them up as they need wins this week & White & Cooper are crutial to their teams.

 

[lewisr]

Why not 2 halfbacks? As covered on the podcasts, Burgess hasn't been in better form than White, and has been playing off the bench anyway. So now we have one week of no-one running the backup backline at half back because Deans is waiting on Burgess instead of White, who has been in better form and starting (unlike Burgess) to boot. Half back is a key position, and if Genia goes down, the replacement will be underdone.​

I'd say its the old "Experience over form". Burgess has quite a few caps under his belt doesn't he? That will play a major role for Deans.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Agreed. I find much of what Deans says to be very flawed and coming from some obscure perspective that clearly, few of us grasp. I presume Link and the rest of the coaching staff at the Reds DO have a clue what they're doing though and whether or not he has a fair point about Taps is irrelevant. To come out publically and say one player is out of form because of another player is pretty shite. Just another reason for Link and Robbie to be less than best buds.

Is there any parralel then that with O'Connor not playing last game and marely showing up the game before, Mitch Inman has seen space and scored three tries (out of 4 in whole Super Rugby career)? Probably not, otherwise surely that would mean O'Connor wouldn't be picked....... Both suggestions are illogical, just like I find the nodding Dingo much of the time.

I reckon this is a serious error of judgment on Deans part.
Imagine if a player came out and said that the coach was to blame for the team's poor form.
There'd be all sorts of sanctions.

 

[djeff]

There's a lot of negativity in regards to all our options at flyhalf: cooper's bad at this, JOC (James O'Connor) terrible at that. If we choose our players as to who is the lesser of the evils we are heading down the wrong path. I'd like to see more comparisons from a positive point of view. The problem with looking at it from a negative perspective is that we end up comparing oranges with oranges: missed tackles, intercepted passes, turnovers, clangers etc.

Before I continue, I should declare that I am a staunch Reds supporter and an admirerer of both player's abilities, but think both have shortcomings in their personalities. So don't bother trying to sing the praises of either party, you'd be preaching to the converted. NTM their short-comings: they're a regular frustration. As much as Rugby is a 7 day a week practice they seem to not be able to reach that 99.9% perfection we demand but see very rarely. We have been spoilt by the likes of John Eales, Tim Horan, George Smith, Dan Carter and David Pocock and this has made our expectations of our Rugby stars to be near perfect.

I think Deansies view is that JOC (James O'Connor) provides a little bit more. Their kicking, passing, tackling are all fairly equal.
They both have an X factor: JOC (James O'Connor) is breaking the line from broken play or quick ball, QCs is creating space from nowhere.
Off-field behaviour and defence are the limitations of both.

I think that the point of difference here is JOCs ball running and confidence in contact as well as JOC (James O'Connor)'s better track record in high pressure situations. Plus his haircut is WAYYYY better

 

[Blue]

over a few comments they make. I

If only it were just a few little comments. Alas...

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Imagine if a player came out and said that the coach was to blame for the team's poor form.

.... didn't that happen last year?

 

[lewisr]

http://media.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/selections/whats-wrong-with-quade-deans-4287278.html

 

[Pfitzy]

Kane Dougals: ... Cons: Isn't a lineout specialist

You mean "doesn't call lineouts". There is a difference.

I only noticed this because straight afterwards you talk about Pyle but don't mention he IS a specialist I.e. calls the lineout for the Rebs.

 

[BDA]

I wish people on this board would move on from the fact that Cooper is not going to be Deans' first choice flyhalf.

A bunch of whinging bitches.

Can we have a gentlemen's agreement to let it rest for the next two months, otherwise its going to be a long series. I still think Cooper might sneak into the squad, but whether we like it or not, Deans is going in a different. People just need to deal with that and remind themselves that Cooper is not, and has never been, some savoir at test level. It is abundantly clear that JOC (James O'Connor) will be in the hot seat on 22 June and I'd like to see people getting behind him and perhaps moving to more positive discussion, such as who best to partner with him at 12, tactics, etc.

In the meantime, you can start drafting up a nice long "I told you so" post for when/if Deans loses the series.

 

[Ash]

I'd say its the old "Experience over form". Burgess has quite a few caps under his belt doesn't he? That will play a major role for Deans.

No doubt.

Overlooking a guy who is playing better (according to the podcast) for a guy who is playing off the bench in Europe, hasn't played a game in Australia for years, because of experience? Bizarre selection, in my book. You can see why Deans did it - for experience - but really, I agree with the podcast - it's not a great decision by any stretch. Not in the least the Wallabies get lose a week of training with the backup halfback.

 

[djeff]

It seemed as though the squad had one too many specialist wingers. Notwithstanding the versatile players such as Folau, JOC (James O'Connor) and Ashley Cooper who can all play on the wing. The inclusion of Ioane, Cummins and Tomane seems like a bridge too far. I can't see all three of these blokes in the game day squad. I, personally would have chosen an extra lock so that live scrums can be a possibility at training. The only reason I can see for this is that all the other locks in contention are carrying injuries but will be expected back before the final announcement (namely MMM and Douglas). The only other explanation I dare not consider . .. . Please, please please don't tell me that Dave Dennis will be considered as a lock. I Understand that he offers versatility in the fact he can play flanker or Lock, but MMM offers that same quality and his impact and aggressiveness would serve us far better.

 

[Pfitzy]

He is supposed to be the mature, 50 year old (how old is the bloke?) coach of the wallabies and yet for some reason he ends up in these grudges with 20 year old sportsmen over a few comments they make. It is widely accepted (even by lord Richie himself) that it's Deans' way or the highway, and when working with young, enigmatic and overconfident play makers this simply doesn't cut it.

Cooper is a fucking grown up. Stop playing him as the victim. Of course it's the fucking coach's way - he's the FUCKING COACH.

Deans is interested in letting his job. In sport, that means winning and very little else for a coach, a player, and the administrators.


Deans picked Quade all through RWC, knowing he'd divide opinion, right up until he got injured. He let him play wing or fullback on defense, despite all the criticism. He gave him every chance, provided the advice, and announced his teams with all this hanging over the team's head.

While you sit down having a cry about life being unfair, consider that QC (Quade Cooper) had the tools at hand to take the advice and improve himself. He tried and still didn't measure up in the estimation of the people that matter I.e. Deans and his selectors. He was allowed to wander off and have his little boxing match, missing time in preseason, and hanging out with the ilk of Nasser.

Do you think that screams "dedication"?

Rather than pissing and moaning like the pack of conspiracy theorists on here, I hope QC (Quade Cooper) is looking to ramp it up against his remaining opponents before the final 6 are added.

But you and the other clod hoppers probably still won't be happy, no.

I'll bet you've all got I-told- you-so's ready and waiting if he does make it in...

 

[Nathan's]

For the first test against the British and Irish Lions, I would field this side:

1. Robinson
2. Moore
3. Slipper
4. Horwill (c)
5. Simmons
6. Mowen
7. Hooper/Gill (either one, they're both great)
8. Higgenbotham
9. Genia
10. Barnes
11. Ioane
12. Lealiifano
13. Ashley-Cooper
14. Cummins
15. O'Connor

I feel that this is the strongest team we can field from the 25 man squad, judging from current form and experience. I have reasoning behind this:

- Even though both Mowen and Lealiifano have no experience at test level, they have been a regular force in the Super 15 for the Brumbies. They are two of the most in form players in the competition and Lealiifano was arguably the best number 10 last season (until his injury) and Mowen, in my honest opinion, is close to being one of the best backrowers currently. His work rate is exceptional and has done an excellent job for the Brumbies, leading from the front. What Lealiifano brings to the side is versatility, he can play basically anywhere in the backline (bar fullback). He is both a great attacking player and playmaker, combine this with some excellent defence he is hard to overlook. I would say that Mowen is in better form then Dennis (arguably kept quiet by Mowen in last Saturday's game) and Lealiifano gives us the extra attacking edge we need in attack, one which Rob Horne lacks. To much of this crash ball rubbish, especially against the Lions who will just slow the ball down.

- Experience is key at number 10 in these matches and Barnes is the man to fill this role. He has played enough rugby to grab the number 10 jersey, and I would keep O'Connor at fullback which was his position that he initially played anyways (except wing).

- As much as I would love to see Folau start, he just lacks the experience. He should be coming on as a super-sub to punch holes in the tired Lions defence.

- Not much of a fan of Rob Horne. His defence is good but otherwise it's just this same crash ball rubbish that doesn't seem to work. We lack the firepower in the centres that we've had previously with the likes of Mortlock etc.

- Very disappointed that the likes of Mogg, Foley, Speight and Davies didn't get a nod in the initial 25 man squad. Mogg is, in my opinion, the best fullback in the world at the moment. Many of the other Fullbacks in the Super 15 have been quiet, whilst Mogg has exploited many teams. I don't see why you wouldn't have him in the side at least, however perhaps he'll be picked in the next 6. Foley as well. He has slotted perfectly into the hole at the Waratahs and taken it all in his stride. Unlucky for him to miss out as well, along with Speight and Davies, but it's extremely difficult to over look Cummins and Ioane.

Hopefully Robbie Deans has something like this in mind, to allow for some great attacking and running rugby. Something that has been missing from the Wallabies game.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Rather than pissing and moaning like the pack of conspiracy theorists on here, I hope QC (Quade Cooper) is looking to ramp it up against his remaining opponents before the final 6 are added.

Halleluja..... someone speaking sense.

 

[BPC]

Cooper is a fucking grown up. Stop playing him as the victim. Of course it's the fucking coach's way - he's the FUCKING COACH.

Don't be so equivocal, what do you really think?

 

[Bullrush]

I really don't think this is the case. I think Paul Cully's point that Robbie Deans would have no hestitation selecting Cooper if he thought he was the best man to help him get a series win is very true.

There's no way Deans would be letting any personal differences get in the way of picking the side that he most thinks will keep him in his job. Pure self-interest would get Cooper selected, not left out.

I instantly thought of Christian Cullen, Tana Umaga and Caleb Ralph.....

 

[Ash]

Cooper is a fucking grown up. Stop playing him as the victim. Of course it's the fucking coach's way - he's the FUCKING COACH.

Deans is interested in letting his job. In sport, that means winning and very little else for a coach, a player, and the administrators.


Deans picked Quade all through RWC, knowing he'd divide opinion, right up until he got injured. He let him play wing or fullback on defense, despite all the criticism. He gave him every chance, provided the advice, and announced his teams with all this hanging over the team's head.

While you sit down having a cry about life being unfair, consider that QC (Quade Cooper) had the tools at hand to take the advice and improve himself. He tried and still didn't measure up in the estimation of the people that matter I.e. Deans and his selectors. He was allowed to wander off and have his little boxing match, missing time in preseason, and hanging out with the ilk of Nasser.

Do you think that screams "dedication"?

Rather than pissing and moaning like the pack of conspiracy theorists on here, I hope QC (Quade Cooper) is looking to ramp it up against his remaining opponents before the final 6 are added.

But you and the other clod hoppers probably still won't be happy, no.

I'll bet you've all got I-told- you-so's ready and waiting if he does make it in.

Please tone down the aggression and abuse. It's not required to get your point across.

Regarding your own point, my own personal opinion is that Deans would not select Cooper short of Cooper being the second coming of Larkham, and maybe not even then. Blaming Cooper for Taps' drop in form is just ridiculous and a dumb thing for Deans to do.

That being said, hopefully we can all move on from the Cooper non-selection. Personally, I had, until Deans' ridiculous comments this morning. Having said my peice before, I've moved on again. I would just like to point out that Deans is making the non-selection worse with his behaviour (not calling Cooper) and his comments, and it's these things giving the so called "conspiracy theorists" plenty of ammunition.

 

[Pfitzy]

Please tone down the aggression and abuse. It's not required to get your point across.

Well, reason and sense isn't having much luck. I suspect it is due to the thickness of the tinfoil hats.

 

[BPC]

- Even though both Mowen and Lealiifano have no experience at test level, they have been a regular force in the Super 15 for the Brumbies. They are two of the most in form players in the competition and Lealiifano was arguably the best number 10 last season (until his injury) and Mowen, in my honest opinion, is close to being one of the best backrowers currently. His work rate is exceptional and has done an excellent job for the Brumbies, leading from the front. What Lealiifano brings to the side is versatility, he can play basically anywhere in the backline (bar fullback). He is both a great attacking player and playmaker, combine this with some excellent defence he is hard to overlook. I would say that Mowen is in better form then Dennis (arguably kept quiet by Mowen in last Saturday's game) and Lealiifano gives us the extra attacking edge we need in attack, one which Rob Horne lacks. To much of this crash ball rubbish, especially against the Lions who will just slow the ball down.

- Experience is key at number 10 in these matches and Barnes is the man to fill this role. He has played enough rugby to grab the number 10 jersey, and I would keep O'Connor at fullback which was his position that he initially played anyways (except wing).

- As much as I would love to see Folau start, he just lacks the experience. He should be coming on as a super-sub to punch holes in the tired Lions defence.

- Not much of a fan of Rob Horne. His defence is good but otherwise it's just this same crash ball rubbish that doesn't seem to work. We lack the firepower in the centres that we've had previously with the likes of Mortlock etc.

- Very disappointed that the likes of Mogg, Foley, Speight and Davies didn't get a nod in the initial 25 man squad. Mogg is, in my opinion, the best fullback in the world at the moment. Many of the other Fullbacks in the Super 15 have been quiet, whilst Mogg has exploited many teams. I don't see why you wouldn't have him in the side at least, however perhaps he'll be picked in the next 6. Foley as well. He has slotted perfectly into the hole at the Waratahs and taken it all in his stride. Unlucky for him to miss out as well, along with Speight and Davies, but it's extremely difficult to over look Cummins and Ioane.

Hopefully Robbie Deans has something like this in mind, to allow for some great attacking and running rugby. Something that has been missing from the Wallabies game.

So Mowen and Lealiifano have no experience but should start as they are a force, but Folau lacks the experience so shouldn't start? Que?

I don't object to starting Lealiifano over Horne but you are refer Horne's play last year under Michael Foley. Have you been watching him this year at all? Also Mortlock played 13 whereas Horne is playing 12 inside AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) these days.

Speight isn't eligible and Davis has speed but little else. Foley is still too raw at flyhalf. He has shown in the last two matches that he hasn't yet got the tactical vision when squeezed by a hard defence. Mogg is the only one I agree was unlucky.

I agree with Barnes at 10 if (and this is a big if under Deans) he runs the ball like he did on Saturday and keeps the useless chip kicks in the back pocket. On Saturday he reminded me of the player who was going to be the new Bernie Larkham, when he filled in at fly half in the 07RWC, before he adopted/was forced into this tactical kicking role that he has had for the last few years.