Wallabies 31 Man Squad

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

timani and cummins are the biggest surprises for me.
i don't rate timani that highly and certainly not above kane douglas and hugh pyle. i think douglas' lack of athleticism in comparison to timani might have seen him miss out, but timani's body position in contact is a constant source of aggravation for me.

i think we will see palmer, pyle, KB (Kurtley Beale), scrumhalf, Mitchell and a centre come in.

6 is largely covered by mowen, higgers, dennis and gill. i don't think there needs to be another one. centre - there needs to be a 3rd outside centre candidate.
10 is also covered with JOC (James O'Connor), Lilo, and Barnes. if KB (Kurtley Beale) comes in, he can play there too - if not i expect Mogg to come in.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

that said, i am happy for cummins to be in off his form last year, his form the past two games and how awesome he is in the post game interviews.

 

[Scotty]

I really don't think this is the case. I think Paul Cully's point that Robbie Deans would have no hestitation selecting Cooper if he thought he was the best man to help him get a series win is very true.

There's no way Deans would be letting any personal differences get in the way of picking the side that he most thinks will keep him in his job. Pure self-interest would get Cooper selected, not left out.

Robbie's stated reasons for not picking Cooper is that he isn't physical and direct enough in attack and defense. Beale is around the same level of physicality in defense, but he is much more lateral in attack.

So yes, if he picks Beale, then it does make a mockery of his reasons for not selecting Cooper.

 

[daz]

that said, i am happy for cummins to be in off his form last year, his form the past two games and how awesome he is in the post game interviews.

I'm not having a crack at the Badger, and I agree that his post-match chats are a breath of fresh air, but does anyone else get the feeling he is playing on that a bit? The interview after the Force game seemed very, very contrived.

Almost like he had a bet with himself on how many outback-speak analogies he could come up with.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

You need enough guys for proper opposed training (particularly for scrums I imagine - though I'll defer to a forward on that one), and if you named a match-day 22 (23 now?) this early, you'd promote complacency. I agree with you that it would be better to just name a squad of 30-odd already, but Deans must be wanting to give particular people time to demand selection (Beale, MMM, even Cooper).

Not naming a second halfback is strange, so it's probably just to give Burgess time to play.

25 doesnt get you opposed anything, though.
I assume theres an arrangement for getting fringe players to turn up to training - by fringe I mean fringe s 15 fringe wallaby or whatever.

 

[Richo]

The Timani selection makes a lot of sense if you look at it from a particular angle. Robbie wants big bruisers who can bend the line and strike fear into the opposition. He also wants locks who scrummage really well and especially on the THP side. I reckon he's more worried about losing the series via scrums than line outs.

Whether that reasoning is justified is up for debate, but that's why I think he got the nod.

 

[gel]

The Timani selection makes a lot of sense if you look at it from a particular angle. Robbie wants big bruisers who can bend the line and strike fear into the opposition.

So why did he pick Timani?

He does neither.

 

[Scotty]

I'm not having a crack at the Badger, and I agree that his post-match chats are a breath of fresh air, but does anyone else get the feeling he is playing on that a bit? The interview after the Force game seemed very, very contrived.

Almost like he had a bet with himself on how many outback-speak analogies he could come up with.

Of course he is playing it up a bit, but playing it up is him being himself. Check out the you tube vids of him.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

So why did he pick Timani?

He does neither.

I have read some compelling analysis to say that Timani is a good scrummager on these pages if not in this very thread.
As for bending the line: bending it upright and getting rolled is not a viable plan, IMO.
Nor is one tackle every 15 minutes.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Players in contention for the final six squad places:

The composition of the final squad places is largely unkown, however it is likely that we will see at least one halfback, a second row, a fullback / wing, a prop, potentially a third hooker or another backrow and at least one inside back or centre.

Players in contention.....

Half Backs:

Nic White - obvious front runner for the second half back spot. Pros: He's got a mamoth boot and has been oneof the form players in the Brumbies until the last couple of rounds. Cons: Although he's been around the Australian set-up before he remains uncapped and thus an unknown quiantity in a pressure boiler test. Faces stiff competition from Burgess who may be given a free ride back into the Wallabies squad and Phipps.

Nick Phipps - The likely third choice half back. Pros: Has Wallaby experience against Northern Hemisphere Teams and has been part of the Wallabies set up for the past couple of years. Provides a running option from the base of a ruck. Cons: Pass lacks accuracy and consistency.

Luke Burgess: Although we've all seen a reasonable amount of Luke, he remains a largely unknown proposition. Pros: Feisty and solid with his snipes and defence. Cons: Pass lacks accuracy and consistency. Hasn't played in Australia for two years.

Second Row:

Kane Dougals: I was surprised at Kane's omission from the 25 as I thought he has shaded Timani in recent games for the Tahs and for the Wallabies last season. Pros: A large unit, shifts bodies as well as anyother second rower in the Aussie conference, provides grunt and go forward. Cons: Isn't a lineout specialist

Hugh Pyle: Along with Higginbotham, he's been the rock of the Rebels pack. Pros: Is hugely atheltic for a lock and is a good option come lineout time. Knows how to sniff out the try line, but is this something that we need against the BI Lions? Cons: His game may be a little too wide for a second row. Does he provide the grunt in the tight that other locks do?

Props:

With Robinson being a specialist loosehead and Kepu, Alexander and Slipper al having played there before, I don't see the need for another loosehead in the squad. This effectively rules out any chance for Sio, Holmes or Cowan (even though he was a long shot). This effectively leaves us with two options: Paddy Ryan or Dan Palmer.

Paddy Ryan. A specialist tighthead who seemingly shares the role at the Tahs with Kepu. Pros: Reasonable scrumager, and powerful runner of the ball. Cons: Can't even cemet a spot at 3 for the Tahs (that said, neither can Kepu).

Dan Palmer: Another specialist tighthead who gets a hard-on over scrummaging. Pros: Probably the best scrummaging tighthead in Australia. Cons: A quick search of Dan Palmer's name on these forums and your likely to see 'pot-plant' next to 80% of the posts. While this may not be entirely true, he doesn't quite have an impact around the field that other do.


Hooker / Backrower:

This selection is largely dependent if Deans wants to take a third hooker into the squad to learn calls / lineout strategy in case of an injury to Moore (please lord, no) or Saia Finaga'a.

James Hanson: I only see one likely candidate at Hooker, James Hanson. While Heath Tessman is playing good football at the Force, Hanson shades him on experience within the national team set-up.

Hugh McMenimum: Madness is on the improve after an AC injury that ruled him out of 6 weeks of super rugby. I know that he has been playing no.4 for the Force, but I think its likely that if considered for the Wallabies, it will only be at six.

Fotu Auela: I think it's unlikely that he'll earn a call up. We've got adequate cover at 8 with Mowen, Higginbotham and Palu.


Outside Back:

Mitchell: The perenial captains of Team Rehab is in with a shot so long as he can capture some form in the next couple of rounds. Pros: He knows his way around the Wallaby set-up and at his best provides a real attacking threat as well as a solid boot. Cons: Seems to be almost always injured and he is no where near his career best form of 2010.

Mogg: For my mind Jesse outplayed Folau in the Tah's vs Ponies and looked composted at the back. Pros: Blinding speed, knows how to find a hole in the opposition defensive line and has a booming boot. Cons: Untested in a pressure cooker of a match; does he have the big game mentality?

Beale: While many have written Kurtley off altogether, from Dean's press conference it seemed that there was still scope for Kurtley to make the squad. Pros: We all know the pros here. Cons: We all know the cons here.

Inside Back / Centre:

A lot has been said about Kyle Gowin and Matt To'omua. Yes, they both will play for the Wallabies. No, it will not be against the BI Lions. Forget it.

Cooper: What ever I write here, it has all been said before. No, I don't think Deans has fully put a pen through Quade's name. I personally think it will all come down to two factors:

1. How well Quade plays against the BI Lions for the Reds; and,
2. Whether KB (Kurtley Beale) is deemed to be fit as a result of his rehab.

McCabe: Behind Cooper, he is one of the most polarising players on this forum. Not because of his personality nor his attitude (which can't be faulted). It because of his perceived ability. Pros: You know what he will deliver, strong in defence and will make yards in attack. Cons: Seemingly one dimensional and defence orientated. Limited ability to unlock his outside backs.

Fainga'a: Similar to McCage above. You know what you get with Ant - solid defence and the pilfering ability of an additional backrower. Pros: Similar to McCabe above, his positive attrbutes revolve around his defensive capabilities. Cons: Similar to McCabe above, does he have the ability to unlock his outside backs?

Tapuai: Has the potential to be a long term candidate for the 12 jersey, but is in a significant form slump. Is this due to Cooper as Deans suggests? Who knows. Pros: Strong and hard runner with the vision and passing ability to feed the outside backs ball. Cons: Confidence is well down after being droped by the reds. Form is far from his best.

That's it, they are my contenders.

Who will get the six additional jerseys? We'll have to wait and see.

 

[Torn Hammy]

I have no doubt that QC (Quade Cooper) is hard work both on and off the field. Link has probably spent thousands of hours nurturing and developing Cooper as a player and a person. It must really irk him to see Deans pile on the pressure and dent his confidence the way he is doing now. As a QC (Quade Cooper) fan, I don't understand what Deans is doing, but it is good to read that he's doing it all for us, the Australian people.

We are tasked with picking the best team that we believe will serve not only the Wallabies but the nation.’’

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/reds-fall-blame-quade-deans-20130520-2jvua.html#ixzz2Tng1bvdV

 

[Scrubber2050]

Personally I think QC (Quade Cooper) has become the form 10 in Australian rugby and his non-selection is a pointed barb at past history between Robbie / ARU.
JOC (James O'Connor) will be excellant at 10. Strong running game - incredibly strong on feet and can actually tackle - probably doesn't have the QC (Quade Cooper) flat pass but aklways seems to make a break or 3 each game.
Great to see Mowen and Leali get some recognition - have always said Moggy wouldn't get a Brief (and that' is a bit of a shame considering his on field exploits, particularly in the first half of the season)

Wonder if Izzy will really get a run-on jersey simply because he hasn't yet committed ????

Seems a few posters are saying Beale will be in the mix - don't reckon myself - ARU just won't take the risk

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think the following quote suggests this is a bigger and longer term issue than we thought:

Deans told Brisbane’s Triple M on Monday morning that Cooper needed to make adjustments in his game, position himself better for contact and allow others to share a load of the playmaking duties.
He used the dramatic slide in form of Tapuai as evidence that Cooper wasn’t hitting the mark. Tapuai has been replaced in the Reds centres by dynamic youngster Chris F’Sautia and saw just nine minutes off the bench against the Cheetahs.

​

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/cooper-behind-tapuai-slump-deans-20130520-2jvua.html#ixzz2TnmANooB​

I think this is a pretty extreme proposition to go public with - it can hardly help the Reds for it to be broadcast that a wallaby and highly regarded 12/13 has had his Wallaby chances scuttled by Public Enemy #1.

 

[BPC]

Someone who has links to the Tahs told me that Kane Douglas may be out for two to three weeks because of the severity of the concussion. This may explain why he was overlooked in favour of Timani, as he may be selected in the final six once his recovery from the concussion is confirmed.

 

[Richo]

So why did he pick Timani?

He does neither.

I don't think that's quite true, because he certainly can do some damage. My bigger concern with Timani is his work rate and frequent laziness. You get a good sense of this at the games as he jobs back into the line after doing anything. You rarely see him string involvements together. I wouldn't have picked him myself, but I think it's pretty clear why Deans did.

 

[Ash]

I don't think that's quite true, because he certainly can do some damage. My bigger concern with Timani is his work rate and frequent laziness. You get a good sense of this at the games as he jobs back into the line after doing anything. You rarely see him string involvements together. I wouldn't have picked him myself, but I think it's pretty clear why Deans did.

Timani's ball carrying has been very poor in the last few weeks, he's been caught high more times then he's actually "bent the line" as people claim.

Now if you think about what is a popular tactic to get a turnover in NH rugby, you might be excused for thinking that the selection of Timani as a ball running lock is not a good one.

 

[fatprop]

Zavros's point of view

But Deans did make these salient (in my opinion) points in support of his decision not to put him in the first 25 Wallaby squad.
First, Cooper has to defend in the front line. Second, he has to be more ‘assertive’ on attack and defence. At the beginning of the season, Deans made exactly the same points in public.
Ewen McKenzie, who is forever spruiking Cooper’s credentials in being the Wallabies flyhalf has steadfastly refused to allow Cooper to defend in the front line.
He has, in fact, mocked Deans’ requirement about this even though it is absolutely fundamental to the effective running of a backline that the playmaker be immediately available when there is a turnover.
As for Cooper’s assertiveness on defence, well there was a demonstration of how this hasn’t improved very much at the beginning of the Reds – Cheetahs match over the weekend.
The Cheetahs halfback Petrus van Zyl made a break. The commentator called out: ‘He’s got Cooper to beat!’ A second later, with Cooper sitting on his rump having gone into the tackle by sliding away from the runner, Zyl scored his try.
Cooper hasn’t shown much assertiveness on attack this season, either. Gone are those long break-outs that were a feature of his play.
He contents himself with either kicking for his wingers to chase (and doing so splendidly) and producing wonderful passes. But against a team like the Lions, who will be muscular on attack and defence, the weakest link in defence will be exploited ruthlessly.

 

[Paddysboy]

I think the following quote suggests this is a bigger and longer term issue than we thought:


I think this is a pretty extreme proposition to go public with - it can hardly help the Reds for it to be broadcast that a wallaby and highly regarded 12/13 has had his Wallaby chances scuttled by Public Enemy #1.

Agreed. I find much of what Deans says to be very flawed and coming from some obscure perspective that clearly, few of us grasp. I presume Link and the rest of the coaching staff at the Reds DO have a clue what they're doing though and whether or not he has a fair point about Taps is irrelevant. To come out publically and say one player is out of form because of another player is pretty shite. Just another reason for Link and Robbie to be less than best buds.

Is there any parralel then that with O'Connor not playing last game and marely showing up the game before, Mitch Inman has seen space and scored three tries (out of 4 in whole Super Rugby career)? Probably not, otherwise surely that would mean O'Connor wouldn't be picked................. Both suggestions are illogical, just like I find the nodding Dingo much of the time.

 

[Ash]

Shorter lewisr: Some foolish people see Cooper play badly and actually think he played badly. This is never the case.

Amazingly, JOC (James O'Connor) was really poor vs the Blues before he went off injured. A similar performance from Cooper would have been panned, and people would have been pointing to that performance for reasons to not pick Cooper. A classic example is how many have pointed out Cooper's miss vs the Cheetahs when he slipped, but not mentioned how easily JOC (James O'Connor) was bumped off three times in the Blues game.

There is definitely people who deny that Cooper plays poorly when he does, but on the other hand many many more people here hold Cooper to standards that they do not to anyone else.

There is still one poster here who routinely posts whenever Cooper makes a mistake, e.g. kicks out on the full, gets a charge down, gets an intercept, yet does not when anyone else does, including JOC (James O'Connor) who did both vs the Chiefs to gift the Chiefs a few tries. That's two games now where Cooper would have been panned by a lot of people for those mistakes, yet JOC (James O'Connor) has avoided the same criticism, most notably from Deans.

I'm disappointed in Deans believing Cooper is apparently the 5th choice (or worse) fly half in Aus; and if you think it's solely for the reasons Deans has publicly stated, then you're very, very wrong in my opinion. Deans is clearly doing the same thing as I mentioned: holding Cooper to a higher standard than others to excuse himself for leaving Cooper out.

Just to give you an idea on how ridiculous it is with Deans, Deans has now blamed Cooper for Taps having bad form. Is it Cooper's fault that Cooper puts Taps in a break, and Taps drops the ball? Is it Cooper's fault that Taps has been missing tackles? Is it Cooper's fault that Taps' ability to break tackles and his left foot step have gone MIA? Now to put it fairly, the Rebels' 12 has been struggling too, outside of JOC (James O'Connor) recently, yet JOC (James O'Connor) once again avoids any sort of blame.

(Source.)

It's pretty clear that Deans does not want Cooper in his squad, and will come up with any excuse on why he should not be there. It is now up to Cooper to make Deans look dumb in his game vs the BILs. I wish Cooper the best of luck there.

Finally, the biggest peice of evidence of how Deans feels about Cooper was at the bottom of the above aticle:

With the Reds in Africa preparing to play the Stormers, Deans said he hadn’t spoken to Cooper directly about his omission but had been in regular contact with him throughout the season.

So Deans doesn't even bother to take the time to tell Cooper he will not be chosen ahead of time. Tells you exactly how much Deans respects Cooper.

While for me Deans not selecting Cooper was not a surprise, people defending Deans to say that it is not personal between him and Cooper is a surprise. Especially with the above evidence.

Anyway, I wish JOC (James O'Connor) the best of luck against the BILs. I wish him the best of luck. Personally I think he's been dealt a bit of shit sandwich with his lack of experience at 10 and being put in such a pressure series with no preparation and coming off an injury, but I am hoping he does the job for us.

And to Deans, I hope you're sacked sooner rather than later as I just don't think you have the vision, communication and man management ability required for the head coach of the Wallabies.

 

[Ash]

A few great comments on the podcast on the make up of the squad. Let's ignore Cooper being missing, I covered that above and now have had enough of it myself. Cooper would be mine, and most people's here, first choice, but I think that Deans has personal issues with him and it just won't happen. Now that I got the post above off my chest, I intend to move on and discuss how the team will do and how JOC (James O'Connor) will go at 10 and what he needs to do for steer the backline around the park.

Now what the podcast said that I agree with. Here goes. Thanks to the pod cast for this!

1. Why only 3 locks? There are two issues with this: a) opposed scrums and b) opposed lineouts. Dennis can pack at lock for opposed scrum, but as a part time second rower he's not going to be as effective as a real second rower. Why not drop one backrower from the squad for another lock; the backrower is not as important for opposed scrummaging and lineouts.

2. Why not 2 halfbacks? As covered on the podcasts, Burgess hasn't been in better form than White, and has been playing off the bench anyway. So now we have one week of no-one running the backup backline at half back because Deans is waiting on Burgess instead of White, who has been in better form and starting (unlike Burgess) to boot. Half back is a key position, and if Genia goes down, the replacement will be underdone.