Alex
Jimmy Flynn (14)
Lads - can we bring some rationality to this debate. This is not the 25 that I would have picked either, but a couple of things are worth bearing in mind:
1. Deans was not going to pick players who are injured and will not be able to play - anyone advocating the selection of Smith, MMM, TPN, McCabe seriously think about this.
2. Deans was not going to pick players who he thinks need game time between now and the series - for example he may think that guys White/Burgess, MMM, Beale, Cooper etc are better on the pitch for their Super franchises than in camp at the moment. I don't know that it is true of any these players in particular, but the principle is certainly true.
3. The match day 23 is not going to come exclusively from this 25. A back up half at least is required. The final six will be important and some players who need game time now will be in that six.
4. Australia's record in recent years has not been abysmal. We have lost a couple of tests that really hurt (particularly Scotland and Samoa), but our record against everyone other than NZ has been pretty good and, frankly, our record against NZ has been better than most. Perhaps not as good as the 86, 91 and 2000 Wallabies, but then they were some of the finest teams ever.
5. I don't think has a bias for a particular province - that is just silly. I think he does pick players who have done the job for him. The Scotland and Samoa losses that we all come back to so often featured (in the starting line ups) players including Hodgson, McCalman, Phipps, Giteau, Davies, Morahan, Anthony Fainga'a, Harris, Palmer. Perhaps they paid the price for not doing the job. Interestingly the starting line-ups in those games contained a total of five NSW players - Kepu and Ashley-Cooper against Samoa and Barnes, Timani and Dennis against Scotland. They, along with the Pococks and Genias, seemed to survive that debacle.
6. Over the past two seasons, we have rarely run out a team which includes half the first choice players. A lot of NSW players got a lot of caps that I don't think they would have got had injuries been kinder - Timani, Kepu, Douglas, Dennis, Turner, Hooper in particular and possible to a lesser extent Barnes. Some of these guys put in important performances in tough situations and it doesn't surprise me that the coach is rewarding them. McCabe is the most obvious example of this for me, despite not getting picked due to injury. Badger also.
7. I don't think that this is the form 25 players, but I do think there were only ever going to be a handful of new caps selected and probably none in the tight 5 - despite the form of Sio, Hansen and Pyle being almost irresistible. The balance was going to be a team that can both put points on the board and match up to a very physical opposition for the 50% of the game where we do not have the ball. Simmons power game in teh loose and the scrum and Timani's hands in the loose and the lineout both scare me, but unfortunately we don't have a more complete option.
8. Edit - one more point - Quade can tackle. He is a very good tackler when he has to tackle, but he prefers to never get caught at the bottom of rucks so tends to hold attackers till the backrow arrives then drops off. These are often recorded as misses but I am sure it is largely intentional. Quade is one of the most gifted attacking players in the world and, with the knowledge I have, i would have him in the team. What I believe Quade lacks is judgment. When he is instinctive he is brilliant but when he has time to think he sometimes makes very poor decisions. In rugby, like Business and the professions, this is career limiting, but it can be improved with work and maturity. He seems to be getting that. What I don't know is how his team mates view him. The wallabies need to be more than the sum of the parts and I am not sure whether the coaching staff believe that his influence on the team is.
This has the makings of a team that can beat the lions, get behind them.
1. Deans was not going to pick players who are injured and will not be able to play - anyone advocating the selection of Smith, MMM, TPN, McCabe seriously think about this.
2. Deans was not going to pick players who he thinks need game time between now and the series - for example he may think that guys White/Burgess, MMM, Beale, Cooper etc are better on the pitch for their Super franchises than in camp at the moment. I don't know that it is true of any these players in particular, but the principle is certainly true.
3. The match day 23 is not going to come exclusively from this 25. A back up half at least is required. The final six will be important and some players who need game time now will be in that six.
4. Australia's record in recent years has not been abysmal. We have lost a couple of tests that really hurt (particularly Scotland and Samoa), but our record against everyone other than NZ has been pretty good and, frankly, our record against NZ has been better than most. Perhaps not as good as the 86, 91 and 2000 Wallabies, but then they were some of the finest teams ever.
5. I don't think has a bias for a particular province - that is just silly. I think he does pick players who have done the job for him. The Scotland and Samoa losses that we all come back to so often featured (in the starting line ups) players including Hodgson, McCalman, Phipps, Giteau, Davies, Morahan, Anthony Fainga'a, Harris, Palmer. Perhaps they paid the price for not doing the job. Interestingly the starting line-ups in those games contained a total of five NSW players - Kepu and Ashley-Cooper against Samoa and Barnes, Timani and Dennis against Scotland. They, along with the Pococks and Genias, seemed to survive that debacle.
6. Over the past two seasons, we have rarely run out a team which includes half the first choice players. A lot of NSW players got a lot of caps that I don't think they would have got had injuries been kinder - Timani, Kepu, Douglas, Dennis, Turner, Hooper in particular and possible to a lesser extent Barnes. Some of these guys put in important performances in tough situations and it doesn't surprise me that the coach is rewarding them. McCabe is the most obvious example of this for me, despite not getting picked due to injury. Badger also.
7. I don't think that this is the form 25 players, but I do think there were only ever going to be a handful of new caps selected and probably none in the tight 5 - despite the form of Sio, Hansen and Pyle being almost irresistible. The balance was going to be a team that can both put points on the board and match up to a very physical opposition for the 50% of the game where we do not have the ball. Simmons power game in teh loose and the scrum and Timani's hands in the loose and the lineout both scare me, but unfortunately we don't have a more complete option.
8. Edit - one more point - Quade can tackle. He is a very good tackler when he has to tackle, but he prefers to never get caught at the bottom of rucks so tends to hold attackers till the backrow arrives then drops off. These are often recorded as misses but I am sure it is largely intentional. Quade is one of the most gifted attacking players in the world and, with the knowledge I have, i would have him in the team. What I believe Quade lacks is judgment. When he is instinctive he is brilliant but when he has time to think he sometimes makes very poor decisions. In rugby, like Business and the professions, this is career limiting, but it can be improved with work and maturity. He seems to be getting that. What I don't know is how his team mates view him. The wallabies need to be more than the sum of the parts and I am not sure whether the coaching staff believe that his influence on the team is.
This has the makings of a team that can beat the lions, get behind them.
