Wallabies 2024

[Joe Blow]

This is absolutely true. We've wasted a whole heap of money paying out Rennie a year early and have made the overall situation worse.

There's no value trying to argue whether or not we'd have done better if Rennie was still coach. We don't know. It was crazy to make the change at the time though. We needed to accept that the situation wasn't good and just ride it out and start again in 2024.

Now who knows where things go?

Not the people who made this decision and are running the show now. They need to go along with EJ (Eddie Jones). They all need to call time on themselves if they have any self respect remaining.

 

[Braveheart81]

We essentially need Eddie Jones to resign though.

You can't fire a guy with four years remaining on his contract. We absolutely don't have the money for that.

 

[Derpus]

We essentially need Eddie Jones to resign though.

You can't fire a guy with four years remaining on his contract. We absolutely don't have the money for that.

5 years was insanity. 4 years after the RWC with strict performance clauses maybe.

McLennan was taking risk on that RA clearly couldn't adequately cover. Gotta question the dudes ability as an administrator after a decision like that.

I also think that there is value in assessing a decision and considering what might have occurred if not for that decision. How else do you learn from mistakes and grow as an organisation? You absolutely need to consider where you've gone wrong.

 

[Wilson]

Rennie wasn't great but to think he would have lead a team to these results seems highly unlikely. He had a much worse injury record last season and had much better results.

Fact is this - it was a terrible, terrible decision to sack Rennie and hire Jones. On every conceivable metric you could use to judge that decision it failed. It was the kind of decision a Union on its knees couldn't afford to get wrong.

And no, it's not the cause of all our problem (insert Pfitzy rant). But it was certainly a major contributor to our performance at this world cup.

To be fair, I don't think anyone is defending that decision at this point, certainly it's not my intent. The broader point is that we already weren't in it with Rennie and no longer looked to be building much of anything either. All we were doing was continuing on the same downward trajectory we've been on for 10-20 years.

Sacking Rennie for Eddie is just one in a looooooong line of missteps, and the results of it may end up being the catalyst for change (though that really is me hunting for a silver lining here).

 

[Brumby Runner]

On the subject of the Wallabies in 2024, I hope that the use of overseas based players is tightened up. Of all of those brought in and tried this year, probably only Skelton has played at the level required, and the others could have been replaced by someone else just as good or better.

The crowd favourite, the exocet missile, did little in attack and was often out of position in defence. He is top class eye candy the way he throws himself around the ground but mostly quite ineffectual. Tom Wright and Dylan Pietsch are better rugby players and imo would have performed better over the course of the tournament.

Samu Kerevi was merely a shadow of his former self. The 12 spot is about the weakest in the team at the moment, but we could have done just as good with Foketi imo.

Richie Arnold was a mistake, as I suspect Rory would have been too had he been considered. Lock was an area where we proved to be competitive with the NZers over the Super Rugby season, and we should have stuck with our local players,

The others, who didn't make the squad are beyond their best days and only managed to reduce the game time available for others who might have made the grade, eg Lolesio.

We have a problem at 15. Andrew Kellaway did not perform as we'd have liked against Wales. Hopefully, Max Jorgenson can recover and prove to be the answer here. Otherwise, a different style of player in the mould of Ben Donaldson, but better, would be Jack Debreczini.

We have a good selection of wingers in Nawaqanitawase, Pietsch, Wright, Petaia and up and comers in Anderson and Toole.

Len Ikitau is currently irreplaceable at 13 but Josh Flook is looking good as a backup. The 12 spot is another weakness. Foketi is probably the best of the present lot, but hopefully Tuipoluto can continue his rise as he's a very promising young player.

Carter Gordon remains the outstanding candidate for 10. 2024 will be Noah's last chance to establish himself, and if he fails to do so, then it could be a long wait for one of the U20s stars to come through.

No 9 is well served for the future with Fines-Leleiwasa, McDermott and Lonergan.

In the forwards we should see further development in Nonngorr, Schoupp, Lambert, and Gibbon, but we're well served in the front row with Ala'alatoa, Bell, Tupou while Slipper probably has another year or so in him.

Hooker is a problem spot, Hopefully, Brandon Paenga-Amosa returns and brings some good form with him. Otherwise, I think Faessler, Pollard and Lonergan have the most potential of the locals. Porecki imo has reached his limit while Uelese and Mafi are both over-hyped and not test level players. Again some good U20s coming through in Marley Pearce at the Force and Bowron at the Brumbies, but still a way off.

Canham in the second row is looking good and adds to the strength of Frost, Philip, Neville, Swain and Holloway.

Back row should be relatively stable. Valetini and McReight best in their spots at Super Rugby level, with Hooper, Gleeson, Leota and Wilson all capable. Wouldn't mind seeing Wilkin getting a run from time to time and someone like Charlie Cale for the future.

 

[Namerican]

We were playing much better though, i don't know why so many people can't understand that. The stats show we were much better last year, so we definitely would have deserved to make the Qf .

And once we made the QF we could havd set up fan zones etc.

I posted points for/against in another thread and it was something like 2022: 330-370 and 2023 it is like 105-228, not counting Georgia. And they won/were within a few points of winning against GREAT teams. Both teams/years had injury problems or players being unavailable as they were overseas.

By any objective standard the 2022 Wallabies, coached by Dave Rennie, were lightyears better than the 2023 edition, coached by Eddie.

We'll never know if Rennie would have beat Fiji/Wales, but all evidence suggests it would have been far more likely than Eddie's team. That isn't even debatable.

It's like comparing Argentina, Wales or Scotland to Chile/Uruguay. Yeah Argentina aren't the best, but they are significantly better than Chile.

Jones also uppercutted himself by picking so few players with test experience and playing guys out of position.

The team looked AWFUL in every facet and 99/100 that's due to coaching. Just look at Wales under Pivac - horrible. Back to Gatland - decent. Even many of the actual T2 teams have looked like competent rugby teams (Chile, Uruguay, Portugal, Samoa), but they lose because the players aren't good enough. Australia didn't look like that. They looked like they had no clue what the were trying to do out there.

None of Australia's better players shined in the tournament, which is coaching. Valteni, Mark, Koro, Kellaway, Kerevi are genuinely world class and looked bang average.

 

[rugbyAU]

On the subject of the Wallabies in 2024, I hope that the use of overseas based players is tightened up. Of all of those brought in and tried this year, probably only Skelton has played at the level required, and the others could have been replaced by someone else just as good or better.

The crowd favourite, the exocet missile, did little in attack and was often out of position in defence. He is top class eye candy the way he throws himself around the ground but mostly quite ineffectual. Tom Wright and Dylan Pietsch are better rugby players and imo would have performed better over the course of the tournament.

Samu Kerevi was merely a shadow of his former self. The 12 spot is about the weakest in the team at the moment, but we could have done just as good with Foketi imo.

Richie Arnold was a mistake, as I suspect Rory would have been too had he been considered. Lock was an area where we proved to be competitive with the NZers over the Super Rugby season, and we should have stuck with our local players,

The others, who didn't make the squad are beyond their best days and only managed to reduce the game time available for others who might have made the grade, eg Lolesio.

We have a problem at 15. Andrew Kellaway did not perform as we'd have liked against Wales. Hopefully, Max Jorgenson can recover and prove to be the answer here. Otherwise, a different style of player in the mould of Ben Donaldson, but better, would be Jack Debreczini.

We have a good selection of wingers in Nawaqanitawase, Pietsch, Wright, Petaia and up and comers in Anderson and Toole.

Len Ikitau is currently irreplaceable at 13 but Josh Flook is looking good as a backup. The 12 spot is another weakness. Foketi is probably the best of the present lot, but hopefully Tuipoluto can continue his rise as he's a very promising young player.

Carter Gordon remains the outstanding candidate for 10. 2024 will be Noah's last chance to establish himself, and if he fails to do so, then it could be a long wait for one of the U20s stars to come through.

No 9 is well served for the future with Fines-Leleiwasa, McDermott and Lonergan.

In the forwards we should see further development in Nonngorr, Schoupp, Lambert, and Gibbon, but we're well served in the front row with Ala'alatoa, Bell, Tupou while Slipper probably has another year or so in him.

Hooker is a problem spot, Hopefully, Brandon Paenga-Amosa returns and brings some good form with him. Otherwise, I think Faessler, Pollard and Lonergan have the most potential of the locals. Porecki imo has reached his limit while Uelese and Mafi are both over-hyped and not test level players. Again some good U20s coming through in Marley Pearce at the Force and Bowron at the Brumbies, but still a way off.

Canham in the second row is looking good and adds to the strength of Frost, Philip, Neville, Swain and Holloway.

Back row should be relatively stable. Valetini and McReight best in their spots at Super Rugby level, with Hooper, Gleeson, Leota and Wilson all capable. Wouldn't mind seeing Wilkin getting a run from time to time and someone like Charlie Cale for the future.

Hunter Paisami could be a shout at 12

 

[Derpus]

To be fair, I don't think anyone is defending that decision at this point, certainly it's not my intent. The broader point is that we already weren't in it with Rennie and no longer looked to be building much of anything either. All we were doing was continuing on the same downward trajectory we've been on for 10-20 years.

Sacking Rennie for Eddie is just one in a looooooong line of missteps, and the results of it may end up being the catalyst for change (though that really is me hunting for a silver lining here).

What change though? As far as I know McLennan only took the job on because he likes rugby. There isn't anyone willing to take the job on who has the skills to reform the game. I thought Raelene was making the right moves but we hounded her out. We have a CEO with no senior executive experience. How are these guys going to fix it?

 

[Braveheart81]

On the subject of the Wallabies in 2024, I hope that the use of overseas based players is tightened up. Of all of those brought in and tried this year, probably only Skelton has played at the level required, and the others could have been replaced by someone else just as good or better.

The crowd favourite, the exocet missile, did little in attack and was often out of position in defence. He is top class eye candy the way he throws himself around the ground but mostly quite ineffectual. Tom Wright and Dylan Pietsch are better rugby players and imo would have performed better over the course of the tournament.

Koroibete has not been good this year but he also won the John Eales Medal last year. He's been a consistently strong performer for the Wallabies in recent years while playing overseas.

I don't think it's reasonable to say he shouldn't have been selected. He's 31 so maybe he's just about done as a test rugby player but based on the play he still showed in Japan in this most recent season including still having excellent pace I think there's a strong chance we'll see him next year and he'll still be good.

 

[Wallaby Man]

On the subject of the Wallabies in 2024, I hope that the use of overseas based players is tightened up. Of all of those brought in and tried this year, probably only Skelton has played at the level required, and the others could have been replaced by someone else just as good or better.

The crowd favourite, the exocet missile, did little in attack and was often out of position in defence. He is top class eye candy the way he throws himself around the ground but mostly quite ineffectual. Tom Wright and Dylan Pietsch are better rugby players and imo would have performed better over the course of the tournament.

Samu Kerevi was merely a shadow of his former self. The 12 spot is about the weakest in the team at the moment, but we could have done just as good with Foketi imo.

Richie Arnold was a mistake, as I suspect Rory would have been too had he been considered. Lock was an area where we proved to be competitive with the NZers over the Super Rugby season, and we should have stuck with our local players,

The others, who didn't make the squad are beyond their best days and only managed to reduce the game time available for others who might have made the grade, eg Lolesio.

We have a problem at 15. Andrew Kellaway did not perform as we'd have liked against Wales. Hopefully, Max Jorgenson can recover and prove to be the answer here. Otherwise, a different style of player in the mould of Ben Donaldson, but better, would be Jack Debreczini.

We have a good selection of wingers in Nawaqanitawase, Pietsch, Wright, Petaia and up and comers in Anderson and Toole.

Len Ikitau is currently irreplaceable at 13 but Josh Flook is looking good as a backup. The 12 spot is another weakness. Foketi is probably the best of the present lot, but hopefully Tuipoluto can continue his rise as he's a very promising young player.

Carter Gordon remains the outstanding candidate for 10. 2024 will be Noah's last chance to establish himself, and if he fails to do so, then it could be a long wait for one of the U20s stars to come through.

No 9 is well served for the future with Fines-Leleiwasa, McDermott and Lonergan.

In the forwards we should see further development in Nonngorr, Schoupp, Lambert, and Gibbon, but we're well served in the front row with Ala'alatoa, Bell, Tupou while Slipper probably has another year or so in him.

Hooker is a problem spot, Hopefully, Brandon Paenga-Amosa returns and brings some good form with him. Otherwise, I think Faessler, Pollard and Lonergan have the most potential of the locals. Porecki imo has reached his limit while Uelese and Mafi are both over-hyped and not test level players. Again some good U20s coming through in Marley Pearce at the Force and Bowron at the Brumbies, but still a way off.

Canham in the second row is looking good and adds to the strength of Frost, Philip, Neville, Swain and Holloway.

Back row should be relatively stable. Valetini and McReight best in their spots at Super Rugby level, with Hooper, Gleeson, Leota and Wilson all capable. Wouldn't mind seeing Wilkin getting a run from time to time and someone like Charlie Cale for the future.

I think locks are a massive issue. They need to be the most intimidating person on the park and they aren’t close to that. We need guys that win every contact they have, not saying dominate contact but they need to win it or at worst get parity. I like Frost’s potential but there is a whiff of Rob Simmons to him. Whoever is going to come in to these spots needs to be big and bruising. Currently the French, South African and Irish locks are rag dolling the opposition.

Been a rebels fan I like Canham but my god he does some stupid things and he fancies himself with ball in hand, whereas we just need him to bash people into submission. Sad thing is our 2 best young locks are now in Japan.

 

[Wilson]

What change though? As far as I know McLennan only took the job on because he likes rugby. There isn't anyone willing to take the job on who has the skills to reform the game. I thought Raelene was making the right moves but we hounded her out. We have a CEO with no senior executive experience. How are these guys going to fix it?

Who knows where it'll come from at this stage, but if that was McLennan's reasoning it's potentially part of the problem. The sacking of Raelene was a massive backward step for mine, maybe now we see a shift away from those same voices that have had a stranglehold on the game for so long. We'll likely need a significant clean out at board level with generational change at the heart of it. I can't see how Waugh hangs around either, aside from being McLennan's man none of the noises he's been making look like they're taking the game in the right direction.

 

[Namerican]

A middle of the road finish is much better than what we have now.

They could have starting rebuilding agter the world cup.

I don't get the reasoning that the team wasn't going to win so who cares anyways. It's the RWC, the showcase event for the sport, the pinnacle of most player's careers. If I were a Wallaby player or fan in the stands I'd have much rather spent my 2023 RWC being competitive and going out in the quarters or semis than taking historic beatdowns and showing absolutely nothing in the entire tournament. I'd rather look back at some great moments, even if only in the pools or quarters, rather than being embarrassed to have even been a part of the team.

The point is to win as many games as you can. I don't know what's hard to understand about that. Winning more is better than winning fewer, even if you don't win them all.

 

[Penriff_boy]

I posted points for/against in another thread and it was something like 2022: 330-370 and 2023 it is like 105-228, not counting Georgia. And they won/were within a few points of winning against GREAT teams. Both teams/years had injury problems or players being unavailable as they were overseas.

By any objective standard the 2022 Wallabies, coached by Dave Rennie, were lightyears better than the 2023 edition, coached by Eddie.

We'll never know if Rennie would have beat Fiji/Wales, but all evidence suggests it would have been far more likely than Eddie's team. That isn't even debatable.

It's like comparing Argentina, Wales or Scotland to Chile/Uruguay. Yeah Argentina aren't the best, but they are significantly better than Chile.

Jones also uppercutted himself by picking so few players with test experience and playing guys out of position.

The team looked AWFUL in every facet and 99/100 that's due to coaching. Just look at Wales under Pivac - horrible. Back to Gatland - decent. Even many of the actual T2 teams have looked like competent rugby teams (Chile, Uruguay, Portugal, Samoa), but they lose because the players aren't good enough. Australia didn't look like that. They looked like they had no clue what the were trying to do out there.

None of Australia's better players shined in the tournament, which is coaching. Valteni, Mark, Koro, Kellaway, Kerevi are genuinely world class and looked bang average.
[/QUOTE
Some good points there, backed up by facts. People on here don't like that though

Some good points there, backed up by facts. People on here don't like that though

 

[rodha]

I dont understand how McLennan can say these results were 20 years in the making because 12 months ago we took the All blacks, France and Ireland to the death and beat South Africa

Rennie, McKellar, Fischer (credential-wise) was quite possibly the most impressive Wallaby coaching staff in 25 years and Hamish McLennan inexplicably blew it all up for the Eddie Jones one-man-band show. Fucking unbelievable.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

England bounced back

They did indeed and realistically we can too with the right people executing the right plan. I follow Aussie Rules as well and my team is Carlton in the AFL. We've emerged from some seriously dark years to play in a prelim final over the weekend. It can certainly be done.

 

[rodha]

I sincerely believe that turfing Fischer was actually the biggest fuck up under McLennan - even more so than sacking Rennie.

When Laurie joined the coaching staff late last year they were absolutely relentless at best, scrapping like a pack of wild dogs and fighting tooth n' nail for every single inch against the top 4 (SA, France, Ireland, NZ) opposition in the world - workrate, workrate, workrate, they actually played as a unyielding cohesive unit with 2-4th string across every position, they always fought for everything & fought doggedly until the very end!

 

[Derpus]

What change though? As far as I know McLennan only took the job on because he likes rugby. There isn't anyone willing to take the job on who has the skills to reform the game. I thought Raelene was making the right moves but we hounded her out. We have a CEO with no senior executive experience. How are these guys going to fix it?

I realise now, as designated Rugby Overlord, that the responsibility falls to me to fix all the issues we face.

I hereby order everyone to forget about rugby for the next 6 months and enjoy the summer. The end.

 

[Penriff_boy]

I sincerely believe that turfing Fischer was actually the biggest fuck up under McLennan - even more so than sacking Rennie.

When Laurie joined the coaching staff late last year they were absolutely relentless at best, scrapping like a pack of wild dogs and fighting tooth n' nail for every single inch against the top 4 (SA, France, Ireland, NZ) best sides in the world - workrate, workrate, workrate, they actually played as a unit with 2nd-4th string across every position, they always fought for everything & fought doggedly until the very end!

You and Namerican are the only people with logic on here.

 

[Members Section]

Cant wait to go to allianz next july to see wales beat us again

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

What was the problem with raelene again? Scarcely remember.
Tho I think she handled izzy poorly