Wallabies 2023

[TSR]

I guess the thing with all of these discussions is players have the opportunity to earn a gig. We aren’t going to see many changes - Jones has already come out and said that - but guys like Vunivalu, Gordon, Stewart et al have Super Rugby to convince Jones they deserve a crack. If Rennie was still in charge you’d imagine the window would be even smaller.

 

[rodha]

The whole 10 situation will be fascinating to watch in Super Rugby this year. If anybody is going to step up then this year is the one to do it, because if Lolesio develops and becomes the default 10 after the cup then it will be hard to move him.

If I was Jones I'd be more than slightly pissed that Rennie wasted the entire WC cycle on developing Lolesio as the backup when he doesn't even run his backline at Super Rugby level. Rennie has done a lot of great things to develop depth across the team but my greatest criticism was his putting all of his eggs in the Noah Lolesio basket, it now means it's too late for Edmed, Stewart, Gordon to become established before 2024.

 

[Derpus]

I suspect Eddie may prefer Pete Samu to start over Hooper. If that ends up being so it will be a big shock to many.

I really doubt it. Samu's shit defensive efforts don't seem to lend themselves to an 'Eddie Jones' team.

If Hooper is to be replaced It'll at least be for another specialist 7. Not an 8/winger.

 

[stillmissit]

I really doubt it. Samu's shit defensive efforts don't seem to lend themselves to an 'Eddie Jones' team.

If Hooper is to be replaced It'll at least be for another specialist 7. Not an 8/winger.

I see, I was thinking about his size and support work being more important but on reflection, you are most probably right. A 7 who can't tackle is a liability we can't afford. Particularly if he goes for Foley at 10!

 

[stillmissit]

If I was Jones I'd be more than slightly pissed that Rennie wasted the entire WC cycle on developing Lolesio as the backup when he doesn't even run his backline at Super Rugby level. Rennie has done a lot of great things to develop depth across the team but my greatest criticism was his putting all of his eggs in the Noah Lolesio basket, it now means it's too late for Edmed, Stewart, Gordon to become established before 2024.

I suspect Rennie listened to Dan McKellar too much and didn't use his own judgement often enough. Donaldson or Edmed could have been a lot further in their development if he looked for other eggs early in his time. Noah was a 12 and a good one in U20's.

 

[Marce]

TSR, I will be surprised if Slipper is in the team for the WC. Eddie likes big props so it should Tupou and another

If size is the number one priority to Eddie, Pone Fa'amausili should be the captain lol

 

[TSR]

What was Rennie’s alternative at 10 realistically. Take a scattergun approach and give them all a couple of tests? Take a punt on one of the others even earlier in their development?

Stewart hasn’t been playing 10 for Qld. I don’t see how you can criticise Rennie for not trialling him at 10 for the Wallabies.

Harrison was included in a 2020 Wallabies squad then subsequently got injured ruling him out of further involvement. I like the kid and I think he was doing a fair job in tough circumstances but he wasn’t playing the house down.

Last year was the first year Edmed & Donaldson played consistently at Super level. They both then got included in the Australia A program. Donaldson performed the better of the 2 and got taken on the EOYT. Not sure what more could be done with those two. There are a number on here that appear to think Rennie backed the wrong horse.

Gordon spent the first bit of the year playing behind To'omua. He maybe could’ve been included in Australia A - but it would have been at the expense of one of the other two. I don’t personally think his form warranted it - but I know others disagree.

Pasitoa similarly only became a starter last year after being behind Lolesio at the Brumbies. Then he got injured. But before being injured does anyone (other than Tim Horan) think he was pushing for higher honours?

It’s all well and good to say Rennie should have done more but I personally don’t believe that stands up to scrutiny. He could’ve maybe backed a different horse than Donaldson but then you would just have a different group of punters arguing he picked the wrong one.

I do think continuing to roll Foley out was an error - so I guess he could have given one of the others an opportunity there but it would’ve been very much throwing them in the deep end. Which he still maybe should’ve done - but doesn’t seem to have done Lolesio any favours. I’m guessing he was probably hoping Foley would replicate what Quade did.

Along the way maybe he should’ve made a point of including 2-3 of the young guys in each Wallaby camp. Other than that not really sure he had many options.

 

[Derpus]

This obsession with size is weird. Samu is about 1cm and 1kg larger than Hooper so, yeah, no.

 

[Derpus]

Okay. But what was his alternative realistically. Take a scattergun approach and give them all a couple of tests? Take a punt on one of the others even earlier in their development?

Stewart hasn’t been playing 10 for Qld. I don’t see how you can criticise Rennie for not trialling him at 10 for the Wallabies.

Harrison was included in a 2020 Wallabies squad then subsequently got injured ruling him out of further involvement. I like the kid and I think he was doing a fair job in tough circumstances but he wasn’t playing the house down.

Last year was the first year Edmed & Donaldson played consistently at Super level. They both then got included in the Australia A program. Donaldson performed the better of the 2 and got taken on the EOYT. Not sure what more could be done with those two. There are a number on here that appear to think Rennie backed the wrong horse.

Gordon spent the first bit of the year playing behind To'omua. He maybe could’ve been included in Australia A - but it would have been at the expense of one of the other two. I don’t personally think his form warranted it - but I know others disagree.

Pasitoa similarly only became a starter last year after being behind Lolesio at the Brumbies. Then he got injured. But before being injured does anyone (other than Tim Horan) think he was pushing for higher honours?

It’s all well and good to say Rennie should have done more but I personally don’t believe that stands up to scrutiny. He couldn’t maybe backed a different horse than Donaldson but then you would just have a different group of punters arguing he picked the wrong one.

I do think continuing to roll Foley out was an error - so I guess he could have given one of the others an opportunity there but it would’ve been very much throwing them in the deep end. Which he still maybe should’ve done - but doesn’t seem to have done Lolesio any favours. I’m guessing he was probably hoping Foley would replicate what Quade did.

Along the way maybe he should’ve made a point of including 2-3 of the young guys in each Wallaby camp. Other than that not really sure he had many options.

Rennie should have just stuck with Noah. Fine, bring Quade in when available. But Foley, Hodge etc. Fuck all that.

 

[Adam84]

He may not be right now, but he's potentially the archetypical Eddie Jones No.10 or 12.

Combining different characteristics & attributes of Matt Giteau, George Ford, Owen Farrell, the closest thing you get in Australia currently is Hamish Stewart followed closely by Tane Edmed.

He isn’t Giteau 2.0 right nor will he be going forward. He is a completely different player with different attributes. If you’re expecting him to emulate Giteau, then you will be waiting a while.

He may have merit for test selection in the future, but thats a different discussion

 

[TSR]

Rennie should have just stuck with Noah. Fine, bring Quade in when available. But Foley, Hodge etc. Fuck all that.

Yeah - maybe. But does he look like a guy who is going to drive us around the field? I dunno.

I completely get why guys are looking for other options. Australia’s development of 10s over the last decade has been shameful. Just not sure Rennie is the one that should be in the firing line here for not throwing more young blokes into the Test team.

Hodge has actually been successful at 10 - although very small sample size.

 

[Thalium]

Bryce Hegarty an option at 10 you reckon?

Hegarty can play at 10 and 15 so I think he has the option to push for selection this year. He had 15 games for the Tigers last year so definitely got some good minutes

 

[Adam84]

Hegarty is a solid player, I wouldn’t look past him just yet. Depends where the Force play him.

 

[Thalium]

I’m a fan of Bryce but that’s be a massive call. I did think Stewart could play his 2nd playmaker role pretty well. As could Isaac Henry.

I think he will do well this year at the Force and given he can play at 10 or 15 gives a need to look at him as they are 2 positions we are lacking on. Add in the fact he was with the premiership topping tiger last year for 15 games Eddie should have seen a bit of him. Plus he played league and once wore a Waratahs jersey and had a Japan stint I think only thing he could do more to attract Eddie’s attention is to go play for Randwick

 

[stillmissit]

What was Rennie’s alternative at 10 realistically. Take a scattergun approach and give them all a couple of tests? Take a punt on one of the others even earlier in their development?

Stewart hasn’t been playing 10 for Qld. I don’t see how you can criticise Rennie for not trialling him at 10 for the Wallabies.

Harrison was included in a 2020 Wallabies squad then subsequently got injured ruling him out of further involvement. I like the kid and I think he was doing a fair job in tough circumstances but he wasn’t playing the house down.

Last year was the first year Edmed & Donaldson played consistently at Super level. They both then got included in the Australia A program. Donaldson performed the better of the 2 and got taken on the EOYT. Not sure what more could be done with those two. There are a number on here that appear to think Rennie backed the wrong horse.

Gordon spent the first bit of the year playing behind To'omua. He maybe could’ve been included in Australia A - but it would have been at the expense of one of the other two. I don’t personally think his form warranted it - but I know others disagree.

Pasitoa similarly only became a starter last year after being behind Lolesio at the Brumbies. Then he got injured. But before being injured does anyone (other than Tim Horan) think he was pushing for higher honours?

It’s all well and good to say Rennie should have done more but I personally don’t believe that stands up to scrutiny. He could’ve maybe backed a different horse than Donaldson but then you would just have a different group of punters arguing he picked the wrong one.

I do think continuing to roll Foley out was an error - so I guess he could have given one of the others an opportunity there but it would’ve been very much throwing them in the deep end. Which he still maybe should’ve done - but doesn’t seem to have done Lolesio any favours. I’m guessing he was probably hoping Foley would replicate what Quade did.

Along the way maybe he should’ve made a point of including 2-3 of the young guys in each Wallaby camp. Other than that not really sure he had many options.

TSR, agree with most of what you wrote but 10 is the critical bit that is missing in the Wallabies and relying on QC (Quade Cooper) has proven to be tricky due to injury.
I thought early on that Lolesio was not the best option to put effort into but then he had a couple of good games and I thought I was wrong. He has not gone on to the next level or Rennie wouldn't have been dragging guys out of semi-retirement. It was a pity there weren't more Australia A games that could have given our second-string stocks a taste of the International experience, particularly in his first year when covid stuffed everything, Rennie might have gone in another direction.
Looking back on it I can't remember another coach with as much bad luck as he had joined in Nov 2019 and Covid hit in early 2020 but you live or die on the result book regardless.

 

[Derpus]

Yeah - maybe. But does he look like a guy who is going to drive us around the field? I dunno.

I completely get why guys are looking for other options. Australia’s development of 10s over the last decade has been shameful. Just not sure Rennie is the one that should be in the firing line here for not throwing more young blokes into the Test team.

Hodge has actually been successful at 10 - although very small sample size.

Do Foley or Hodge? Foley in particular was never a master game manager, he had a great running game, played pretty flat and was good at bringing a second playmaker into a game.

I get Noah isn't the best 10 in the world but he is pretty clearly our best option (when Quade isn't fit - i.e. 95% of the time). And with Kerevi inside him he should be good enough. He would be better with more time and less fuckery happening, too.

Agree though that bringing in another young bloke would be stupid. Is Donaldson suddenly going to be better than Noah? nah.

 

[Wilson]

I think he will do well this year at the Force and given he can play at 10 or 15 gives a need to look at him as they are 2 positions we are lacking on. Add in the fact he was with the premiership topping tiger last year for 15 games Eddie should have seen a bit of him. Plus he played league and once wore a Waratahs jersey and had a Japan stint I think only thing he could do more to attract Eddie’s attention is to go play for Randwick

Hegarty definitely still has something to offer, but the problem him and Stewart (and some of the other force players) are going to have is that it's almost a whole new team. We'll have to wait and see what the first 23 looks like, but I think there will probably be a player new to the squad in around half the positions, along with a few playing new or unfamiliar positions. It's going to be hard to impress in playmaking and organisational roles in that environment.

 

[rodha]

I suspect Rennie listened to Dan McKellar too much and didn't use his own judgement often enough. Donaldson or Edmed could have been a lot further in their development if he looked for other eggs early in his time. Noah was a 12 and a good one in U20's.

No, Rennie was selecting Lolesio over far better options in his first year in 2020. McKellar joined in 2021.

Lolesio was clearly one of Rennie's pet project players, Paisami being another.

 

[TSR]

No, Rennie was selecting Lolesio over far better options in his first year in 2020. McKellar joined in 2021.

Lolesio was clearly one of Rennie's pet project players, Paisami being another.

Who were the better players? His options were Harrison, JOC (James O'Connor) who he picked and who got injured. Toom’ua who was in rubbish form & Jono Lance. Which one should he have gone with. None of Donaldson, Edmed & Gordon were playing super rugby.

Also Lolesio was MOM in the Super Rugby AU final. Harrison went through a virtually winless season with the Tahs.

 

[KOB1987]

Maybe it was all a coincidence but one of Eddie's ploys seemed to be to irritate pending opposition by including players who were eligible for that country in his training squad, Nick Dolly and Guy Porter come to mind. England would be high on Eddie's 'irritate' hitlist so I wonder if we will be seeing Lynagh included in squads as a development player.