Wallabies 2023

[molman]

agree
but saying not to pick a player cause he cant kick is waffle. every player has all the facets, it is just some are stronger in one area than another.

Under a serious SWOT type analysis the W - weakness would provide insight on where the player could put some effort to seek improvement.

As for Tate, his strengths far outweigh his weaknesses, IMHO.

I suspect they do weigh up his strengths and weakness against available options. Armchair punters are silly to think they don't with a lot more data and insight than the rest of us have. I think Tate's snipping/running game often clouds people view of him with regards to evaluating critically some of the other aspects of the role. Tate's passing has been pretty well documented as a work on with him even mentioning it on a number of occasions. This includes not just his pass, but doing it crisply from the base as oppose to always stepping. A season or two back Genia was even helping him out with some of his core skill development. Aaron Smith is gold standard in this area.

If you look at last years SuperRugby stats, Jake was a better tackler, including some critical cover tackles. He ran less, but makes more gain when he did. His passing both ways is cleaner, kicking is superior and he's generally more consistent across all the aspects of a 9's role. He's garnered a run of cards with the Wallabies which is not ideal, but if you actually look at them individually they are not systemic of his play and some were an unfortunate byproduct of him trying to resolve whole team situations (rolling mauls, breaks and line defense). I don't feel like his Wallabies performance were consistently his best, so the door is well open for Tate and/or Lonergan, but I really doubt Jones is about to write him off.

Tate shines with his running game (you can see his 7's pedigree), both off the base and in support. He had a larger number of try assists and defenders beaten and ran twice the number of times Jake did. This makes him an exciting 9 who presents as bringing energy to the game. That said he took more risks which resulted in more turnovers.

I'm pretty sure all the 9's will be aware of their work-ons (White's is likey to be less lippy ) and healthy competition can only be good for raising standards so honestly it's a great situtation to have vs. our fly-half/10 situation where we really seem to lack clarity and half our options aren't even in the country.

 

[Qldtragic]

Because they ain't the same role

DR - Dave Rennie is being paid " to coach the 2023 wallabies"
EJ (Eddie Jones) Eddie Jones is being paid "to coach the 2023 wallabies"

How is it not the same role.

 

[Proud Pig]

DR - Dave Rennie is being paid " to coach the 2023 wallabies"
Eddie Jones is being paid "to coach the 2023 wallabies"

How is it not the same role.

Actually Dave Rennie is being paid "to not coach the 2023 wallabies".

 

[Qldtragic]

Actually Dave Rennie is being paid "to not coach the 2023 wallabies".

and us mugs at grass roots are funding it.

 

[LeCheese]

and us mugs at grass roots are funding it.

It's pretty simple - RA have determined that the benefits (take your pick of metrics - success, popularity, financial, etc.) outweigh the cost of the single-year's overlap. There's also a decent chance that Eddie said it's 2023 or nothing.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Er, you might want to check that again...

Idiot. My bad.

I don't think it has been overly bad though. The losses have been close and they have all been away games

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

It's pretty simple - Rugby Australia have determined that the benefits (take your pick of metrics - success, popularity, financial, etc.) outweigh the cost of the single-year's overlap. There's also a decent chance that Eddie said it's 2023 or nothing.

Quarter to Semi at the RWC would be worth more than $1m

 

[Mr Pilfer]

McLennan has said that they are keen for him to go through to 2029 if it all goes well.

I would be very surprised if Eddie wasn't still planning on heading to USA to coach them in the 2031 home world cup.

 

[TSR]

With regards to the debate that went on about whether or not Jones could still coach, interesting to see comments from the likes of Genia, Chris Robshaw, Owen Farrell & James Haskell endorsing his capabilities. Genia (whom Jones coached in the 2007 Qld Reds season that was seen by many as a disaster) and a Robshaw (who Jones publicly bagged before coaching him) both citing him as the best coach they were coached by.

 

[cyclopath]

It's a skillset that can be developed, as seen by Aaron Smith, Faf, Gibson-Park etc.

Tate has the intangibles to develop, Gordon doesn't

Awesome, intangibles. The skill no-one can put their finger on, but will predictably be developed and expressed.
Any international coach trying or expecting to develop the skill of box-kicking in Tests should be on a game by game contract. It is not easy to do well.
I'd stick with tangibles.
And no, that's not spruiking for Gordon per se.

 

[cyclopath]

and us mugs at grass roots are funding it.

No, RA are funding it. We all know RA and grassroots are not part of a Venn diagram.

 

[Tomthumb]

Regardless of my views on Eddie being Wallaby coach again (I remain skeptical), I definitely like him back in our high performance set up. Shifting from the HC position to a long term DoR role I think would be ideal. There is no doubting his rugby IQ and for mine it's about maximising his value for the game in general here in OZ.

With Eddie being a well noted control freak, I can’t see him sitting in an office while someone else coaches the team

 

[stillmissit]

Have you watched any rugby in the last twenty years?

It's an essential requirement for any international halfback...

prove it....

 

[stillmissit]

Of course you have to play to the strengths of the players you have but likewise, you might decide that certain skills and elements of a gameplan are essential.

It's hard to see a coach deciding that they don't want to box kick at all or that it isn't a necessary skill for a halfback.

It also isn't like the best halfbacks in World Rugby don't have complete skillsets including an excellent box kick.

Hold it, it ain't like his box kicking is crap, his kicking around the field is a weakness compared to white.

 

[gel]

Im a fan of Tate, but...

Doubt

 

[Ignoto]

Not much point picking Gordon if you want your team to play with a half back for 80 minutes.

Given Eddie is big on discipline and the least penalised teams in the world are currently 1&2 ranked, I'd be imagining EJ (Eddie Jones) is quite concerned.

But hey, Gordon can pass alright from the base of the ruck!

 

[Derpus]

Tate and Gordon are both a bit shit, lets be honest. You wouldnt want either to be your starting half in a RWC knock-out.

 

[gel]

I'm pretty sure all the 9's will be aware of their work-ons (White's is likey to be less lippy ) and healthy competition can only be good for raising standards so honestly it's a great situtation to have vs. our fly-half/10 situation where we really seem to lack clarity and half our options aren't even in the country.

That's an interesting take, and one which several wallabies have echoed in interviews over the last 5 years or so. You'd think getting repeatedly embarrassed everytime you step foot in new Zealand, having lower and lower win percentages against opposition and slipping down the rankings would be the kind of motivation that pushes a professional athlete.

But not for Australian rugby players - get picked to play.... Job done.

 

[cyclopath]

Not much point picking Gordon if you want your team to play with a half back for 80 minutes.

Given Eddie is big on discipline and the least penalised teams in the world are currently 1&2 ranked, I'd be imagining is quite concerned.

But hey, Gordon can pass alright from the base of the ruck!

A good point, but not only wrt Gordon. We gotta hope that Jones will be targeting this aspect - we cannot expect to compete with the infringement rate from the Wallabies of late. It has been awful.

 

[Slim 293]

prove it....

I present to you…

At least a decade’s worth of rugby halfback play.

I don’t think this is the gotcha moment you were hoping for…