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Wallabies 2023

Joe Blow

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
I see Foley getting a run before Beale. With Kellaway returning and Hodge and Petaia in the squad Beale would be 4th choice at best.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
In the immediate short-term, giving Foley a run makes some sense given our lean stocks at 10, both fitness and form-wise. He does have a lot of experience. But the vexed question is looking to next year and the RWC. I'd back Quade to get healed and fit, given his professionalism, but it's a gamble. We'd better hope some of the young 10s kick on really quickly, as I don't think we want to rely on Cooper, Foley and O'Connor.
Could be a big chance for Lolesio to lock it down, but he needs to be better.
 
A mutterer

A mutterer

Chilla Wilson (44)
cyclopath said:
In the immediate short-term, giving Foley a run makes some sense given our lean stocks at 10, both fitness and form-wise. He does have a lot of experience. But the vexed question is looking to next year and the RWC. I'd back Quade to get healed and fit, given his professionalism, but it's a gamble. We'd better hope some of the young 10s kick on really quickly, as I don't think we want to rely on Cooper, Foley and O'Connor.
Could be a big chance for Lolesio to lock it down, but he needs to be better.
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i think the challenge is that lolesio hasnt as yet, despite the obvious talent something is just not clicking.

is it white?

is it confidence?

is it just that he's doing an ok job and would be made to look better with different players either side?

i dunno what the answer is and it seems that the coaches are still searching for the answer, but at the end of the day our 10 is still not our biggest problem.

does DR need to coat the training balls with some olive oil and throw the shifting spanner at those who cant catch and pass properly? might explain the injury list.
 
Tomthumb

Tomthumb

Peter Fenwicke (45)
A mutterer said:
i think the challenge is that lolesio hasnt as yet, despite the obvious talent something is just not clicking.

is it white?

is it confidence?

is it just that he's doing an ok job and would be made to look better with different players either side?

i dunno what the answer is and it seems that the coaches are still searching for the answer, but at the end of the day our 10 is still not our biggest problem.

does DR need to coat the training balls with some olive oil and throw the shifting spanner at those who cant catch and pass properly? might explain the injury list.
Click to expand...
Because he’s 22, has only played 12 tests and has been chopped and changed constantly. All world class international 10’s took time to develop into what they are. None of them have been top class straight away

Rennie has had the last 2 years to stick with Noah, develop, coach and back him. If he did we would have a star, but as per usual with Aussie rugby, they took the short term thinking, instant gratification option that has now blown up in their face
 
wamberal

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Rebel man said:
Fuck me that’s grim
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Looking at it dispassionately, and I have a long history of wishing and hoping, it could be argued that rugby in this country has punched above its weight for many years. Most of national teams that we are competing against have inherent advantages. I won't go through them one by one.

On the other hand rugby in this nation is up against two very popular and successful domestically governed codes, whose rules are specifically designed to make the respective codes popular with Ozzies. Their club games draw bigger games than many of our internationals, and they both have huge memberships. And wide and deep commercial appeal. Money, money, money.

Ignore the facts if you like, but IMHO we are doing pretty well to be in the top 10.
 
Joe Blow

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
Tomthumb said:
Because he’s 22, has only played 12 tests and has been chopped and changed constantly. All world class international 10’s took time to develop into what they are. None of them have been top class straight away

Rennie has had the last 2 years to stick with Noah, develop, coach and back him. If he did we would have a star, but as per usual with Aussie rugby, they took the short term thinking, instant gratification option that has now blown up in their face
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It is still uncertain if he has the skills and the instinct to be a decent test 10. As you say, he has played 12 tests, some OK and others not, and he does not appear to be progressing. I would guess that DR and the powers that be are seeing the same, hence them continually looking for alternatives. Bottom line is that we ain’t going to slay the world, or even climb the rankings, with Noah at 10 ATM.
 
Tomthumb

Tomthumb

Peter Fenwicke (45)
I would say he has been progressing. They looked a lot more organized in the England series than they have in Argentina. What young 10 hasn't struggled early? Pollard struggled, Sexton struggled, Mounga struggled, hell even Carter took some time to find himself at test level. Expecting any young 10 to just walk into test rugby and dominate is unrealistic

Bringing back these old guys isn't going to fix anything. If Ireland can turn Mack Hansen into a world class winger, Australia can turn their young players into winners too
 
Joe Blow

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
Ideally you have a young 10 coming in off the bench behind an experienced campaigner. All of those 10s you mention came in and played a lot of tests from the bench behind some off the best 10s the game has see. I’m sure Rennie was planning on bringing Lolesio along behind QC (Quade Cooper).

Mack Hansen was brought into an Irish side that was close to becoming the world number one side full of stars and on an upward trajectory. That is the most straight forward of intros. Hes good but any of our wingers/fullbacks would have performed as well or better in that team.

Once again. Noahs ceiling is uncertain. He may have already reached it. Hope to be proven wrong.
BTW, I would start Noah against the Boks with Hodge on the bench.
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
stillmissit said:
BH, have we forgotten how average Foley was and even his kicking towards the end became poor? Most pundits were saying we needed more 10 stocks and here we are 2.5 years later and still with 10 issues.
We have a bunch of players who should be in consideration Edmed 22, Donalson 23. Lolesio is 22 is he better than those 2? Carter Gordon is 21. 7 months. There will be guys here who can ID others who they think could step up and we need to find this out now.
We need to see if any of these youngsters can step up? I think waiting until they are 25-26 is a waste but I am not advocating throwing them to the saffa's or the AB's, surely we could give them starts in Australia A or better still get them into the W squad as development players to expose them to what they need to do.
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Foley's form in 2019 before he left fell apart. He's then gone to Japan and played well.

The reason Foley is being considered is because we have a RWC next year. The guy we had picked as the guy is out for a year with injury, the other experienced option is injury prone and there are doubts over his form and the third guy is young and hasn't quite stepped up yet.

If we were another year out I have no doubt we'd be taking a different approach and we'd be looking at Donaldson or Edmed but we have 12-14 tests left before the RWC and none of the guys waiting in the wings have played a single test. They've all played just a handful of Super Rugby games. I certainly think one of them should be brought into the Wallabies squad to start gaining experience but I can't see Rennie rolling the dice and deciding one of them is the option heading towards the RWC and putting his eggs in that basket.
 
Tomthumb

Tomthumb

Peter Fenwicke (45)
That's a nice theory, but that isn't what Rennie was doing. He dropped Lolesio to the bench for Reece Hodge, and then out of the 23 when O'Connor started. And he was left out of the 23 for all the tests Quade started last year even after leading them to a test series vs France. And now even after O'Connor might have played the worse game of his life vs England, he still gets picked and Noah isn't in the 23. You don't bring a young guy along by killing his confidence

With the way Rennie is treating the kid he may never reach his ceiling unfortunately

Why wouldn't Rennie start O'Connor vs South Africa? If he thinks O'Connor is the best, stick with him
 
Lightblue

Lightblue

Arch Winning (36)
So, 2 Tests against South Africa and another 2 against a wounded AB side… not ideal for a Wallaby side on the back foot. In regard to our playmaker position, the quarter back of rugby, we need a guy who can create, mix it up and kick tactically…. and often goal kick… Cooper for mine will come back ….if anyone can overcome an injury like his, he will. We need him. Foley option is desperate… but maybe not so hair brained as it may seem, as he has apparently been playing well in Japan. Solid, without being flashy, good goal kicker but very poor tactical kicker. Of the 3 young 10’s in the mix at the moment, Lolesio has been given the most reins. Up and down, lacks vision, good goal kicker. Edmed …. Solid defender, not a great creator but also a good goal kicker. Donaldson, would be the best natural 10 who has shown he has a flair and vision for the position but goal kicking not his strong point which is extremely valuable in Test match footy. Having said that, the two all time greats at 10 for the Wallabies imho were two non goal kickers in Mark Ella and Stephen Larkham. For Australia A recently, Donaldson was preferred in the last two games and played pretty well. Lonergan was the goal kicker. Unfortunately the Wallabies don’t really have a reliable kicker that doesn’t play 10… Cooper, Lolesio and O’Connor… Rennie I feel will be forced to play between O’Connor and Lolesio with Edmed and Donaldson given further time with the Australia A program, which I believe is going on a trip to Japan in November? Plus solid time for the Waratahs next year. Only problem is they both play for the one team…. I forgot to mention the injured Harrison, who imho is not a great 10 but a good footballer and goal kicker. If only he was a halfback?
15 … the other position a worry… has to be Kellaway or Hodge. Beale is terrible under the high ball and the game is high ball city these days. He is not a 10… wasn’t called the crab for nothing!
So James and Noah…. Play well and Tane and Ben…bide your time by playing and enhancing your natural skills.
 
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