Wallabies 2023

[Viking]

Paul Cully made a salient point, he reckons Holloway will get the first crack at 6 over Leota for his defensive lineout and mauling ability against the English. Can't argue with that.

Porecki definitely the starter, he barely made a lineout error all year and was part of a dominant Tahs scrum when he had Bell and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) (Harry Johnson-Holmes) next to him. Fainga'a showed he's still not a great thrower last week and Longeran looks the goods off the bench to speed the game up around the park.

I'm tempted to start Sio or at least keep him on the bench over Slipper. Laulala absolutely destroyed Slipper and we can't afford that against what will undoubtedly be a strong England scrum. I've been pretty critical of Sio in previous seasons, I think his form completely nosedived after 2016 but he's a revival this season.

Great post, i agree with all! Really have high hopes for Porecki, hope he nails down the Hooker spot, would be great having a Hooker with a solid throw.

 

[Viking]

I think your missing a few Brumbies players in there....

Bell ahead of Slipper and Porecki ahead of Lonergan (and maybe even Fainga'a). Not sold on Wright - super talented but makes poor decisions.

Agree on Wright, lots of my fellow Brumbies fan raving about his form this year, but I think he still makes poor decisions or lets his emotions get the best of him.

Porecki to start as Hooker, and I like Bell over Slipper too. Slipper form has declined this year and his scrummaging is a worry.

 

[fatprop]

Paul Cully made a salient point, he reckons Holloway will get the first crack at 6 over Leota for his defensive lineout and mauling ability against the English. Can't argue with that.

Porecki definitely the starter, he barely made a lineout error all year and was part of a dominant Tahs scrum when he had Bell and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) (Harry Johnson-Holmes) next to him. Fainga'a showed he's still not a great thrower last week and Longeran looks the goods off the bench to speed the game up around the park.

I'm tempted to start Sio or at least keep him on the bench over Slipper. Laulala absolutely destroyed Slipper and we can't afford that against what will undoubtedly be a strong England scrum. I've been pretty critical of Sio in previous seasons, I think his form completely nosedived after 2016 but he's a revival this season.

Holloway playing in the backrow for the Tahs use to go missing, it was only when he was moved to lock that started to ramp up is involvements because he had to play tighter

 

[Tomikin]

No I agree… I meant interesting in the fact that why is it a story when I suspect he is well down the list as you say… unless he isn’t?

The Journo asked if he would play at fullback if selected. He said yes if they selected me, but Ren's only talked about my play at 10... Total Beat-up his not playing 15.

 

[Tomikin]

Agree on Wright, lots of my fellow Brumbies fan raving about his form this year, but I think he still makes poor decisions or lets his emotions get the best of him.

Porecki to start as Hooker, and I like Bell over Slipper too. Slipper form has declined this year and his scrummaging is a worry.

Narr I've always said Wrights too much Rocks or Diamonds for tests, his a talent though, just needs to cut out the silly mistakes..

e.g.

 

[Tomikin]

Holloway playing in the backrow for the Tahs use to go missing, it was only when he was moved to lock that started to ramp up is involvements because he had to play tighter

Yeah, I think there's a risk with him moving back to 6 or 8, his been fantastic in tight with a more direct game at lock. But happy to be proven wrong. Actually no I will be pissed if he ends up at 6/8 has a stinker and we lose to the Pom's...

 

[fatprop]

Narr I've always said Wrights too much Rocks or Diamonds for tests, his a talent though, just needs to cut out the silly mistakes..

e.g.

View attachment 13851

I think Koro and Kell have enough runs on the board to be first choice, I agree that Wright takes too many instinctive but risky options, in big boy tests you need to play the percentages because the f*ck ups are punished hard

 

[fatprop]

Yeah, I think there's a risk with him moving back to 6 or 8, his been fantastic in tight with a more direct game at lock. But happy to be proven wrong. Actually no I will be pissed if he ends up at 6/8 has a stinker and we lose to the Pom's...

We have good options that play in the backrow, I don't see the benefit in the change, we have Wilson, Valetini, Leota, & Samu to get 160 mins of test rugby out of

Now if they pick Hollaway as a bench option (still the most likely) then his ability to cover lock/6/8 comes into play

 

[Lindommer]

Holloway playing in the backrow for the Tahs use to go missing, it was only when he was moved to lock that started to ramp up is involvements because he had to play tighter

I'd opine it was a change of scenery/family responsibility/whatever rather than a change of jumper numbers leading to the new, improved Jed. Holloway returned from os last year a much more mature person, and player.

 

[Marce]

Fans in Australia have already disengaged with the Super Rugby product as evidenced by viewership figures and attendance of games.

Look at the Waratahs case. From 4k supporters at Parramatta to 10/15/20k supporters at Leichhardt Oval in less than one season.

People want to watch good rugby and a team who reflect corauge and values. Maybe the current Tahs team isn't the best team in the competition and wouldn't win the title but they have passion and fight until the very end and people support that.

A similar case could be Reds. They have lost a lot of supporters at Suncorp cause the bad perfomances in the last seasons but they still have people who love rugby and are waiting to support a team who reflect what I told about the current Tahs.

So, for a wealthy Australian rugby you need wealthy strongholds: NSW, QLD and ACT. I reckon that WA and Victoria is a very different story. Maybe WA is a more favourable land to farming cause is not a saturated sport market like Victoria where you have to compete against the Aussie Rules strongholds and one of the most succesfull NRL teams in the last decade with living legends in their recent history.

To sum up, in my understanding Reds have the people to reborn like Tahs and bring back them to Suncorp. Brumbies have to fight against Raiders marketing. Waratahs is in the right direction and WA could be a stronghold in a couple of years if they do the right things.

I have not idea how to grow rugby in Victoria, it's probably the hardest sport market for the code. You need a successful team like Storm during a decade to grow there and even with that you wouldn't grow like Storm because they already took most of the people who don't follow AFL there

 

[dru]

So, for a wealthy Australian rugby you need wealthy strongholds: NSW, QLD and ACT. I reckon that WA and Victoria is a very different story.

Marce, I can't remember how much you were involved in the closed (too hot to handle) "where to" thread, but most of this has been discussed, most fans have a view that isn't shifting and not all hold the same view.

From my POV the Super as implemented managed to cut support numbers down to the rusted-on, and then brought in the sand blaster to continue the trend. As things improve in a given franchise /union, the absent-rusted on return. For a bit. Even if not temporary it's not even a blip on the longer term trends. To return to strength requires the game to attract outside of the traditional rusted-on rugby fans to the general public. Fortunately in Australia it is a sports crazy market, and (at least compared to NZ) a sizeable market. We only need to attract 1-2% of NRL/AFL/Football fans to make a huge difference. If only we would get on with it.

Re-setting those game trends is where it starts. At the moment those trends are, a polemic difference in team quality between Aus and NZ, an absence of willingness to spread the available talent (including NZ players) across the comp (including Aus teams), hence a baked-in lop-sided balance in the comp, a predictable shortage of Aus representation in the finals, and a growing lack of interest in games between NZ teams. And a complete imbalance of funding to NZ v Aus teams. The NZ (and previous RA) solution is shrink to greatness. Which does solve the quality and balance, without needing to adjust funding toward Aus - a logical solution if your only problem to address is levelling the playing field. It possibly builds strength in Qld and ACT. NSW would follow if they ever solve the impasse between NSWRU and SRU. And between SRU and the grass roots. Otherwise we have two solid franchises over time, and a possible third permanently dangling in front of the politics with brief flashes of strength.

But rugby here needs to broaden the imprint outside of traditional rugby background. That needs a domestic comp (like every successful code in Aus) with a domestic champion that gives the commentary Australian teams to focus on in the trip to finals. There is room after this for things like a TT or interface to Japan. IMO RA needs to reset to a domestic comp, then ACT/Qld are powerhouses that need to self drive. Sort out the shit in NSW and leave them to self drive. Otherwise they need to focus on making Melbourne and Perth strong. And to look how to expand outside of that.

 

[Marce]

Marce, I can't remember how much you were involved in the closed (too hot to handle) "where to" thread, but most of this has been discussed, most fans have a view that isn't shifting and not all hold the same view.

From my POV the Super as implemented managed to cut support numbers down to the rusted-on, and then brought in the sand blaster to continue the trend. As things improve in a given franchise /union, the absent-rusted on return. For a bit. Even if not temporary it's not even a blip on the longer term trends. To return to strength requires the game to attract outside of the traditional rusted-on rugby fans to the general public. Fortunately in Australia it is a sports crazy market, and (at least compared to NZ) a sizeable market. We only need to attract 1-2% of NRL/AFL/Football fans to make a huge difference. If only we would get on with it.

Re-setting those game trends is where it starts. At the moment those trends are, a polemic difference in team quality between Aus and NZ, an absence of willingness to spread the available talent (including NZ players) across the comp (including Aus teams), hence a baked-in lop-sided balance in the comp, a predictable shortage of Aus representation in the finals, and a growing lack of interest in games between NZ teams. And a complete imbalance of funding to NZ v Aus teams. The NZ (and previous Rugby Australia) solution is shrink to greatness. Which does solve the quality and balance, without needing to adjust funding toward Aus - a logical solution if your only problem to address is levelling the playing field. It possibly builds strength in Qld and ACT. NSW would follow if they ever solve the impasse between NSWRU and SRU. And between SRU and the grass roots. Otherwise we have two solid franchises over time, and a possible third permanently dangling in front of the politics with brief flashes of strength.

But rugby here needs to broaden the imprint outside of traditional rugby background. That needs a domestic comp (like every successful code in Aus) with a domestic champion that gives the commentary Australian teams to focus on in the trip to finals. There is room after this for things like a TT or interface to Japan. IMO Rugby Australia needs to reset to a domestic comp, then ACT/Qld are powerhouses that need to self drive. Sort out the shit in NSW and leave them to self drive. Otherwise they need to focus on making Melbourne and Perth strong. And to look how to expand outside of that.

I think that the current Super Rugby system is better than the last one with South Africa, Argentina and Japan. This is a system that can't guarantee beat NZ consistenly but at least keep Australia as a good rugby nation, maybe a top 5 or 3 in World Rugby.

The Argentinian Press is talking about this, if Australia leave Super Rugby, Argentina could take that participation and Argentina could be the new Australia, a top 5/top 3 team (Depending on head coach and elegible players).

But the RA bet is HUGE, could be a game changer or could be the death of rugby in Straya. I mean, the NRC was a disaster in economic terms for many reasons. You are talking about a new NRC with more resources and WITHOUT Super Rugby. Could be the winning card or the tomb for Australia rugby.

I'm watching Eels vs Roosters right now at Parramatta stadium. The stadium looks sold out or something like that. How far is rugby from that in NSW?? We are light years away from that and it's not gonna change in 5 or 10 years. Too many tries, a simpler game but that's not gonna change cause RA can't change rugby laws

 

[Tomikin]

I think that the current Super Rugby system is better than the last one with South Africa, Argentina and Japan. This is a system that can't guarantee beat NZ consistenly but at least keep Australia as a good rugby nation, maybe a top 5 or 3 in World Rugby.

The Argentinian Press is talking about this, if Australia leave Super Rugby, Argentina could take that participation and Argentina could be the new Australia, a top 5/top 3 team (Depending on head coach and elegible players).

But the Rugby Australia bet is HUGE, could be a game changer or could be the death of rugby in Straya. I mean, the NRC was a disaster in economic terms for many reasons. You are talking about a new NRC with more resources and WITHOUT Super Rugby. Could be the winning card or the tomb for Australia rugby.

I'm watching Eels vs Roosters right now at Parramatta stadium. The stadium looks sold out or something like that. How far is rugby from that in NSW?? We are light years away from that and it's not gonna change in 5 or 10 years. Too many tries, a simpler game but that's not gonna change cause Rugby Australia can't change rugby laws

One thing we lack at the moment.. is spots within good money for Australian rugby.. for every JOC (James O'Connor) there's ten Andy Muirhead.. but all those kids have no option then to chase the NRL... Yes skill goes down but retaining these guys goes up.

More teams more places in professional rugby in Oz better Australia.. it's affording it's the problem
.

 

[Derpus]

I think that the current Super Rugby system is better than the last one with South Africa, Argentina and Japan. This is a system that can't guarantee beat NZ consistenly but at least keep Australia as a good rugby nation, maybe a top 5 or 3 in World Rugby.

The Argentinian Press is talking about this, if Australia leave Super Rugby, Argentina could take that participation and Argentina could be the new Australia, a top 5/top 3 team (Depending on head coach and elegible players).

But the Rugby Australia bet is HUGE, could be a game changer or could be the death of rugby in Straya. I mean, the NRC was a disaster in economic terms for many reasons. You are talking about a new NRC with more resources and WITHOUT Super Rugby. Could be the winning card or the tomb for Australia rugby.

I'm watching Eels vs Roosters right now at Parramatta stadium. The stadium looks sold out or something like that. How far is rugby from that in NSW?? We are light years away from that and it's not gonna change in 5 or 10 years. Too many tries, a simpler game but that's not gonna change cause Rugby Australia can't change rugby laws

NRC was not a disaster economically - the entire cost was covered by the broadcaster.

It was a player development comp and it worked great. It unearthed some genuine talent (including guys like Petaia).

It didnt have a lot of fans because it wasn't really meant to.

 

[dru]

I'm completely cool with Argentina stepping into Super Rugby Pacific as Aus steps out. In fact I would encourage it. Always like supporting Argie rugby. Doesn't change anything in my thinking as to where Australian rugby should be headed.

 

[topgun]

NRC was not a disaster economically - the entire cost was covered by the broadcaster.

It was a player development comp and it worked great. It unearthed some genuine talent (including guys like Petaia).

It didnt have a lot of fans because it wasn't really meant to.

Interesting, I actually really enjoyed seeing players develop in the NRC. Why did they dack it if it wasn't costing them big? seems like a win win if if wasn't a money sink

 

[topgun]

Holloway playing in the backrow for the Tahs use to go missing, it was only when he was moved to lock that started to ramp up is involvements because he had to play tighter

Jed definitely had some forgettable moments at the Tahs before his return but he has ben very candid about his work ethic before he was dumped from the squad. I had a love hate relationship with Cheik's mindset as a club coach in thatb some players were just permantently on the outside of the circle. at the Tahs it was Volavola, Holloway, Mike Ala'alatoa, Gray and Roach and it really affected the career trajectory of those players that they never got any TLC.
Jed has come back a different player and If he fits the bill in the gold jersey I'd be stoked on him in the 2nd row or back row. I much prefer a versatile backrower that can play lock than a lock out of position playing backrow (Ie. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) in the late Cheika era). In any case having Leaota, Holloway, Samu, Wilson and Valetini competing for the same role is great for Aus

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Look at the Waratahs case. From 4k supporters at Parramatta to 10/15/20k supporters at Leichhardt Oval in less than one season.

People want to watch good rugby and a team who reflect corauge and values. Maybe the current Tahs team isn't the best team in the competition and wouldn't win the title but they have passion and fight until the very end and people support that.

A similar case could be Reds. They have lost a lot of supporters at Suncorp cause the bad perfomances in the last seasons but they still have people who love rugby and are waiting to support a team who reflect what I told about the current Tahs.

So, for a wealthy Australian rugby you need wealthy strongholds: NSW, QLD and ACT. I reckon that WA and Victoria is a very different story. Maybe WA is a more favourable land to farming cause is not a saturated sport market like Victoria where you have to compete against the Aussie Rules strongholds and one of the most succesfull NRL teams in the last decade with living legends in their recent history.

To sum up, in my understanding Reds have the people to reborn like Tahs and bring back them to Suncorp. Brumbies have to fight against Raiders marketing. Waratahs is in the right direction and WA could be a stronghold in a couple of years if they do the right things.

I have not idea how to grow rugby in Victoria, it's probably the hardest sport market for the code. You need a successful team like Storm during a decade to grow there and even with that you wouldn't grow like Storm because they already took most of the people who don't follow AFL there

Victoria is hard market but storm shown can do it but to do so you have to be successful. That sums it up as on the field the rebels have not been successful. Be a major contender and win a few super rugby titles they could do it. But creating a dynasty like the storm ain’t obviously easy.

 

[Marce]

Victoria is hard market but storm shown can do it but to do so you have to be successful. That sums it up as on the field the rebels have not been successful. Be a major contender and win a few super rugby titles they could do it. But creating a dynasty like the storm ain’t obviously easy.

To put into perspective, since 1996 Aussie franchises won 4 Super Rugby titles. So Rebels have to win at least 3 titles in 6 years or something like that to compete against Storm in Victoria.

They have to be become something like the Brumbies of Gregan, Larkham, Smith, Walker and Joe Roff. The Reds of Horwill, Genia, Cooper and Ioane and the Waratahs of Kepu, Dennis, Potgieter, Foley, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Folau in less than a decade, something never saw in RA.

There's a way that they could do it. If they buy all the Wallabies players is possible, they would have a big chance to win titles, I can't see another way and I can't see where will all that money come from.

 

[Drew]

Any word on Topous fitness? Going into camp there were a chance he may miss the first test due to injury