Wallabies 2023

[upthereds#!]

Surely it's just a commonly held beleif that Feao Fotuaika should be playing 9?

This is something the Reds obviously got wrong.

 

[Rebel man]

He was terrible, but historically he’s been better than Gordon.

Has he? The Rebels went with Hodge as their kicker. I didn’t like it as the time as it sets him up to fail

 

[Namerican]

He provides a hell of a lot if you listen to those who have played, trained and even coached with him. I'll take their words over some random punters on a rugby forum.

This is all heresy at the moment regarding his non involvement with Aus A. From what we know he may have been told he wasn't needed for Aus A. Only he and Eddie know. All we know is a line that Eddie dropped at a press conference saying he hadn't answered his call after finding out in the media he had not been selected for the RWC. Sounds pretty immature from that one line for sure however who knows what happened before that or since that. It's also pretty likely his employer in Japan didn't want him playing for Aus A after losing him for the majority of '23 to an injury suffered playing intls last year. My point is who actually knows.

For this world cup give me him over Donaldson any day of the week. I honestly can't understand anyone who thinks Donaldson is the right selection for a World Cup in a matter of weeks over QC (Quade Cooper) (Quade Cooper). Donaldson currently provides nothing over QC (Quade Cooper) (Quade Cooper) which leads me to think it's a personal/personality issue between Eddie and him. Something must be going on in the background and we don't know who is at "fault".

We will probably find out in a podcast or a book in coming years what the story actually is.

And I am not a long term QC (Quade Cooper) (Quade Cooper) fan at all. Quite the opposite actually. Only after the past couple of years have I seen any value of him for the Wallabies.

Eddie obviously went with an out with the old in with the new philosophy, wherever humanly possible. He turfed Holloway, Fainga'a, M.Hooper (injury so perhaps not), Wright, Foley, Hodge, Quade. Some of that might be personal preference in terms of player attributes, but taken together it was obviously with the intent of going younger and likely also a "culture change." Rightly or wrongly. I have my opinion, but I doubt Eddie cares!

 

[Brumby Runner]

My memory might be off but I thought Schoup, Faessler & Nonggorr were pretty solid at the end. And I think they had Frost & Hooper behind them

Not Frost. Matt Philip came on from the bench.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Not enough data. Not much happened his way. Didn't do anything horrible, didn't do anything great.

His first kick wasn't particularly horrible, went almost 40m, but the French scored directly from it. More to do with poor team defence, but the kick should have found touch.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Eddie obviously went with an out with the old in with the new philosophy, wherever humanly possible. He turfed Holloway, Fainga'a, M.Hooper (injury so perhaps not), Wright, Foley, Hodge, Quade. Some of that might be personal preference in terms of player attributes, but taken together it was obviously with the intent of going younger and likely also a "culture change." Rightly or wrongly. I have my opinion, but I doubt Eddie cares!

Hmm... Tom Wright born July 1997, Andrew Kellaway born October 1995.

 

[swingpass]

Hmm... Tom Wright born July 1997, Andrew Kellaway born October 1995.

i dont think his omission is on age criteria, Kellawy younger, but sooo much smarter. # rugby IQ

 

[upthereds#!]

i dont think his omission is on age criteria, Kellawy younger, but sooo much smarter. # rugby IQ

Absolutely - but brumbyrunner was responding to a claim that it was out with the old, in with the new.

Wright was pretty new lol

 

[Highlander35]

Absolutely - but brumbyrunner was responding to a claim that it was out with the old, in with the new.

Wright was pretty new lol

Wright is Wallaby 939, Kells is Wallaby 941 ergo he's newer

 

[GTPIH]

Apologies if someone has mentioned this earlier, but in his interview with Fitz on Sunday Eddie had this to say re out with the old in with the new

"It is an interesting process, taking over a team, because you’ve either got to decide that you build on what’s there, or you destroy what’s been made. And you’ve got to make an appraisal. And I tried initially to build on what was there, and I just felt this isn’t going to work."

"We’ve basically gutted the team. We’ve brought through a new group. You can see so many younger players: 26 of the 33 in the squad have played less than 10 Tests. But there’s an ambition about them. And we’re going to play a more raw style of rugby, much less organised, much less coach-led and much more player-led."

 

[rodha]

Eddie obviously went with an out with the old in with the new philosophy, wherever humanly possible. He turfed Holloway, Fainga'a, M.Hooper (injury so perhaps not), Wright, Foley, Hodge, Quade. Some of that might be personal preference in terms of player attributes, but taken together it was obviously with the intent of going younger and likely also a "culture change." Rightly or wrongly. I have my opinion, but I doubt Eddie cares!

Eddie knows how to both bear a grudge and to be vindictive. He and Robbie are not too dissimilar, they are both ruled by their heart - which is a character trait you really really don't want in a head coach. Their Feelings over the Facts. Robbie dropped the best available flyhalf in the country on the eve of the all important 2013 Series due to vengeful spite and 10 years later history has repeated itself. Eddie and Robbie certainly know how to hold a grudge, I suppose that's what happens when you are a bitter twisted boomer.

 

[Adam84]

certainly know how to hold a grudge, I suppose that's what happens when you are a bitter twisted boomer.

who we actually talking about here lol

 

[qwerty51]

Eddie knows how to both bear a grudge and to be vindictive. He and Robbie are not too dissimilar, they are both ruled by their heart - which is a character trait you really really don't want in a head coach. Their Feelings over the Facts. Robbie dropped the best available flyhalf in the country on the eve of the all important 2013 Series due to vengeful spite and 10 years later history has repeated itself. Eddie and Robbie certainly know how to hold a grudge, I suppose that's what happens when you are a bitter twisted boomer.

Why are you replying to a quote attributed to me that I didn't write (I think you wrote it?) at all? This is weird.

 

[cyclopath]

Why are you replying to a quote attributed to me that I didn't write (I think you wrote it?) at all? This is weird.

Why, indeed. Very odd stuff, but not surprising.

 

[KOB1987]

Apologies if someone has mentioned this earlier, but in his interview with Fitz on Sunday Eddie had this to say re out with the old in with the new

"It is an interesting process, taking over a team, because you’ve either got to decide that you build on what’s there, or you destroy what’s been made. And you’ve got to make an appraisal. And I tried initially to build on what was there, and I just felt this isn’t going to work."

"We’ve basically gutted the team. We’ve brought through a new group. You can see so many younger players: 26 of the 33 in the squad have played less than 10 Tests. But there’s an ambition about them. And we’re going to play a more raw style of rugby, much less organised, much less coach-led and much more player-led."

It's an interesting perspective, because in 2002 he inherited Macqueen's world beaters, and in 2016 he inherited that pommy rabble and threw everything including the bathwater out, and had success with both. In Japan, he inherited nothing, just built it, also successful. If you believe the above he thinks the 2016 approach will yield superior results to the 2002 one - which isn't really surprising given their respective records. I'm on the fence.

 

[qwerty51]

I don't think he changed much from 2015 -> 2016

Here's the side v Australia in 2015 (there was a match v Uruguay after but I won't count that as it's not a full strength side intended side)

FB	15	Mike Brown
RW	14	Anthony Watson
OC	13	Jonathan Joseph
IC	12	Brad Barritt
LW	11	Jonny May
FH	10	Owen Farrell
SH	9	Ben Youngs
N8	8	Ben Morgan
OF	7	Chris Robshaw (c)
BF	6	Tom Wood
RL	5	Geoff Parling
LL	4	Joe Launchbury
TP	3	Dan Cole
HK	2	Tom Youngs
LP	1	Joe Marler
Replacements:
HK	16	Rob Webber
PR	17	Mako Vunipola
PR	18	Kieran Brookes
LK	19	George Kruis
N8	20	Nick Easter
SH	21	Richard Wigglesworth
FH	22	George Ford
CE	23	Sam Burgess

Here's the team for his first match in charge v Scotland in 2016

FB	15	Mike Brown
RW	14	Anthony Watson
OC	13	Jonathan Joseph
IC	12	Owen Farrell
LW	11	Jack Nowell
FH	10	George Ford
SH	9	Danny Care
N8	8	Billy Vunipola
OF	7	James Haskell
BF	6	Chris Robshaw
RL	5	George Kruis
LL	4	Joe Launchbury
TP	3	Dan Cole
HK	2	Dylan Hartley (c)
LP	1	Joe Marler
Replacements:
HK	16	Jamie George
PR	17	Mako Vunipola
PR	18	Paul Hill
LK	19	Courtney Lawes
FL	20	Jack Clifford
SH	21	Ben Youngs
CE	22	Ollie Devoto
FB	23	Alex Goode

The most obvious thing is starting Ford and getting rid of a the "bash it up" 12 and moving to dual playmakers.
Vunipola got injured before that Aus match. He brought back Haskell which is hardly a clean slate type of move. Wood got selected later in the year.

The only players who seemingly Eddie ditched were Morgan and Parling, Morgan probably could've been selected but again was only there due to Billy's injury - Parling fell off, backend of career.

He didn't change much at all, certainly nothing the magnitude of leaving out Hooper, Quade and Foley.

 

[Hawko]

Like any good coach, Eddie will have a plan on how he wants selection to go over the tournament. Like any war, plans have to change as soon as contact with the enemy occurs, but making the plan informs your strategy and individual tactics, training intensity day to day, injury rehab etc.
Here's my guess at what Eddie will do based on his overall reads on players so far:

Position​	vs Georgia​	vs Fiji​	vs Wales​	vs Portugal​	Team for the finals​
	5:3​	6:2​	6:2​	5:3​	6:2​
Loose head	Bell	Bell	Bell	Slipper	Bell
Hooker	Porecki	Porecki	Porecki	Faessler	Porecki
Tight head	Tupou	Tupou	Tupou	Fa'amausili	Tupou
Lock	Frost	Arnold	Frost	Philip	Frost
Lock	Skelton	Skelton	Skelton	Arnold	Skelton
Blindside	Leota	Hooper	Hooper	Leota	Hooper
Open side	McReight	McReight	McReight	Kemeny	McReight
Number Eight	Valetini	Valetini	Valetini	Gleeson	Valetini
Finishing hooker	Uelese	Faessler	Faessler	Uelese	Faessler
Finishing loose head	Slipper	Slipper	Slipper	Schoup	Slipper
Finishing tight head	Fa'amausili	Fa'amausili	Fa'amusili	Nonggorr	Fa'amausili
Finishing lock	Arnold	Frost	Arnold	Arnold	Arnold
Finishing lock/backrow		Leota	Leota	Frost	Leota
Finishing backrow	Gleeson	Gleeson	Gleeson		Gleeson
Half	White	McDermott	McDermott	Fines-Leleiwasa	McDermott
Five-eighth	Gordon	Gordon	Gordon	Donaldson	Gordon
Blind winger	Korobeite	Korobeite	Korobeite	Vunivalu	Korobeite
Inside centre	Foketi	Kerevi	Kerevi	Foketi	Kerevi
Outside centre	Petaia	Petaia	Petaia	Perese/Ikitau	Ikitau
Outside wing	Vunivalu	Nawaqanitawase	Nawaqanitawase	Nawaqanitawase	Nawaqanitawase
Fullback	Kellaway	Kellaway	Kellaway	Jorgensen	Kellaway
Finishing halfback	McDermott	White	White	White	White
Finishing backs	Kerevi/Donaldson	Donaldson	Donaldson	Ikitau/Petaia	Petaia

I think using 6:2 in the important games allows us to shore up our deficiencies, which are likely to be in the forwards. Injury disasters are more easily fixed by shuffling the backs.

I am assuming we will lose one player over the tournament. Ikitau should be the automatic replacement unless we have to replace Gordon, in which case it has to be Foley. My reason for saying that is that Ikitau is one of the automatic picks in the team if fit. In another three weeks he should be good to go. In the finals, that leaves Petaia as supersub - he would go to fullback and Kellaway to five-eighth in case Gordon gets an in-game knock.

 

[Namerican]

Absolutely - but brumbyrunner was responding to a claim that it was out with the old, in with the new.

Wright was pretty new lol

I don't think it was let's turf anyone, that's crazy, but more so when in doubt err on the side of a new option. Most of the guys kicked aside weren't surefire starters last season when the entire squad was healthy.

Leaving out a healthy Kellaway, Koro, Thor, Valetini, Ikitau is unthinkable. They are the best players.

 

[Namerican]

I think Eddie's approach is mental right before a RWC. Make the most drastic changes after. You can still bring in young players without throwing them immediately into positions as starters.

And I don't buy the reasoning that "they won't win anyways who cares." You should always put your best foot forward in a RWC. Not caring shouldn't be an option.

 

[Namerican]

Paisami was playing against Portugal, Foketi was playing against France.

I agree it wasn't Foketi's best game and he did look a little lost but that's probably a function of not getting any game time since Super Rugby and having to learn Eddie's game plan with a bunch of players he's never played with before. He had a pretty good season with the Tahs - there is a discussion going on in the game thread about small sample sizes, this would fall into that category.

Paisami was playing against Portugal, Foketi was playing against France.

I agree it wasn't Foketi's best game and he did look a little lost but that's probably a function of not getting any game time since Super Rugby and having to learn Eddie's game plan with a bunch of players he's never played with before. He had a pretty good season with the Tahs - there is a discussion going on in the game thread about small sample sizes, this would fall into that category.

IMO it is madness that your 9,10,12 pairing has a combined 30ish caps.

And most of those are Tate. Who's going to organize the defense? Vunivalu? Nawaqanitawase? Kellaway at 15, where he doesn't have a ton of experience? Same for Petiaia.

I'd be shocked if Foketi didn't look a little bit lost. Most of the backline looked dazed and confused. Not a knock on them, they are a highly inexperienced group at this level. As were the starting flankers you'd expect to be the next widest players on defense.