Wallabies 2023

[cyclopath]

I’m not a fan of the Boomer tag, it’s a shit thing to throw at people as a slight. Many Boomers are exceptional at what they do. But Bob Dwyer hasn’t been apart of a high performance program for decades. He wouldn’t have a good idea about modern day sports science, tactics, etc. almost everything he would have taught wouldn’t exist in the modern game. Of course he would have more idea than the average person on certain aspects but he would be a fish out of water if tasked to coach in the modern day. The 60+ guy taking us to the RWC hasn’t left the game and has developed at the same speed the highest level of the game has. Every aspect of life is like this. You could be an IT specialist 20yrs ago but would be out of your depth if you decided to re-enter the profession if you hadn’t been directly involved in it for the last 20yrs. People would laugh at how you tried to problem solve things and the techniques used to apply them.

There would be T2 and T3 sides incorporating more advanced things than Dwyer was in his pomp. The resources at their hands would be multiple what he would of been used to.

Dwyer was undoubtedly a very good coach, whose merit should be measured against the others at that time. That's not disrespectful at all. But also look at the players he had to coach.
1991 - oft quoted as his peak - Campese, Little, Horan, Lynagh, Farr-Jones, Ofahengaue, Poidevin, McCall, Eales, McKenzie (oh, fuck this will give rodha a stiffy), Kearns and Daly. I mean, OK, he did OK with those muppets.
But apart from that, as mentioned above, the requirements to get International teams to top level are so much more complex, the accepted wisdom from over 30 yrs ago just does not apply so much.
Yeah, guys from that era still have a lot of knowledge and coaching IP, but like every field, things move on. What you had to do then as a coach does not make it today, it's the harsh truth.

 

[stillmissit]

Dwyer was undoubtedly a very good coach, whose merit should be measured against the others at that time. That's not disrespectful at all. But also look at the players he had to coach.
1991 - oft quoted as his peak - Campese, Little, Horan, Lynagh, Farr-Jones, Ofahengaue, Poidevin, McCall, Eales, McKenzie (oh, fuck this will give rodha a stiffy), Kearns and Daly. I mean, OK, he did OK with those muppets.
But apart from that, as mentioned above, the requirements to get International teams to top level are so much more complex, the accepted wisdom from over 30 yrs ago just does not apply so much.
Yeah, guys from that era still have a lot of knowledge and coaching IP, but like every field, things move on. What you had to do then as a coach does not make it today, it's the harsh truth.

I saw a video of a rugby coach talking about this subject recently. He stated that you have to do far more in supporting players and telling them what to do doesn't work.
Re Horan and Little, Dwyer looked past the current Qld 12/13 and pulled them out of under 20's into the Wallabies. I think Horan was 19 and Little a bit older.

If any of the younger posters here are not sure what he did this is Dwyers entry in the Sport Australia - Hall of Fame:

As a coach, Dwyer has scaled the very heights in the game, highlighted by Australia’s victory in only the second World Cup ever played – against England at Twickenham in 1991. He was in charge of the Wallabies for ten years – in 1982/83 and from 1988 to 1995.
Dwyer coached Australia in 74 Tests and in 144 matches overall, winning 99 of them. His strike rate (70%) makes him one of the most successful coaches in Australian rugby history

 

[dusk]

I don't believe he was better then Wright.. you can take away his age and add in the fact he had a major knee injury hasn't played for 3 months and isn't fit yet....

Sure but you can also add in the fact that Wright has had MULTIPLE chances to soldify his spot on the wing or at full-back and hasn't done that.

 

[swingpass]

before we all move on, possibly apochryphal, but my favourite Bob Dwyer story is that in the first Wallabies team meeting after his reappointment following Alan Jone he apparently said "as i was saying before being rudely interrupted... now where were we"

 

[Slim 293]

There’s no doubt Bob Dwyer was a great coach in his time.. maybe don’t include his stint with the Tahs in Super Rugby…

I do remember his newspaper columns from almost twenty year ago…

Definitely a strong hint of…

 

[John S]

No thanks. I will not be taking advice from you regarding my pov. If you are OK with being played yourself after posting your views on rugby and suggesting I should 'pull my head in' without having a right to reply, then I suspect you are bumptious (Crudely or loudly assertive; pushy) and somewhat lacking in awareness of the situation.

I'd rather your views on rugby without someone basically saying you don't get it because I'm smarter than you. Maybe I misread who said what originally,. Apologies if I offended, I'll take myself out.

 

[Green grass]

I am all in on Australian Rugby. Are you?

 

[Green grass]

before we all move on, possibly apochryphal, but my favourite Bob Dwyer story is that in the first Wallabies team meeting after his reappointment following Alan Jone he apparently said "as i was saying before being rudely interrupted... now where were we"

Could Bob be our high performance director?

 

[LeCheese]

Could Bob be our high performance director?

I think the green grass might’ve gotten to you a bit

 

[Adam84]

Could Bob be our high performance director?

only if it doesn’t impact on his ongoing pension entitlement

 

[stillmissit]

We have a squad to support and regardless of what we think or say the majority will be playing in the big games. I suspect we accept that someone must be in charge and that is Eddie Jones ATM. The surprise has passed and we have what we have, I'm on the positive side of the equation and looking forward to this RWC with more fascination than excitement but it will be compulsory watching.
We are going to be the youngest and oddest of the top 10 and I have embraced that. We don't have an underdog tag, it is a totally unknown tag!
It could be great and I've never seen so much that's unknown about a Wallaby team.

 

[John S]

We have a squad to support and regardless of what we think or say the majority will be playing in the big games. I suspect we accept that someone must be in charge and that is Eddie Jones ATM. The surprise has passed and we have what we have, I'm on the positive side of the equation and looking forward to this RWC with more fascination than excitement but it will be compulsory watching.
We are going to be the youngest and oddest of the top 10 and I have embraced that. We don't have an underdog tag, it is a totally unknown tag!
It could be great and I've never seen so much that's unknown about a Wallaby team.

I agree - I'm over the shock now. WHile not upbeat on it, I'm neutral but thinking that we can slide past a few

 

[stillmissit]

only if it doesn’t impact on his ongoing pension entitlement

He's 83 and I suspect he ain't too worried about pension peanuts.

 

[stillmissit]

I agree - I'm over the shock now. WHile not upbeat on it, I'm neutral but thinking that we can slide past a few

John, the bit that has me excited is the youngsters are very talented which makes contest results impossible to judge.

 

[Braveheart81]

Do you accept that there's such a thing as winner's mindset? A culture of success? A winning culture?

Can a similar thing not potentially exist in the minds of people that have ground away for a decade not to have any meaningful success?

Sure, but none of the players coming in are used to continued success at any level either.

People have been suggesting things like us fearing the All Blacks and needing to find guys who don't know that fear for years. The reality doesn't change. These new guys can still get pumped.

E.g. I 100% think Carter Gordon is the right player to start at 10. I've been very impressed with how well he's played and he's exceeded my expectations. He's got to that position on the back of two Super Rugby seasons where his team has won 8 games and lost 20. He's not playing well at test level because he doesn't know anything but winning.

I know what you’re saying but from the comments I heard from Jones that is very much part of his rationale.

I know but does it really hold up? The winning percentage of the Wallabies has gradually dropped over time. Essentially the shorter players' test careers are, the lower their winning percentage is.

I'm not arguing we should have gone a drastically different way with selections but I also don't think Jones' statements bear up to much scrutiny.

I absolutely think he's opted as much as possible to pick a squad where he can mold them into what he wants and they know little else apart from his way.

 

[John S]

John, the bit that has me excited is the youngsters are very talented which makes contest results impossible to judge.

Yep, I also don't think that they are as untested as some people suggest. Sure, there's probably been limited game time, but what's the adage - if you're good enough, you're old enough?

 

[Joe Blow]

Sure, but none of the players coming in are used to continued success at any level either.

People have been suggesting things like us fearing the All Blacks and needing to find guys who don't know that fear for years. The reality doesn't change. These new guys can still get pumped.

E.g. I 100% think Carter Gordon is the right player to start at 10. I've been very impressed with how well he's played and he's exceeded my expectations. He's got to that position on the back of two Super Rugby seasons where his team has won 8 games and lost 20. He's not playing well at test level because he doesn't know anything but winning.



I know but does it really hold up? The winning percentage of the Wallabies has gradually dropped over time. Essentially the shorter players' test careers are, the lower their winning percentage is.

I'm not arguing we should have gone a drastically different way with selections but I also don't think Jones' statements bear up to much scrutiny.

I absolutely think he's opted as much as possible to pick a squad where he can mold them into what he wants and they know little else apart from his way.

Eight out of twenty is nothing to chirp about. Hasn’t QC (Quade Cooper) and Foleys teams been winning a bit in Japan?
I agree that he is the right choice for this RWC. I just wish he had an older head to help guide him along.

 

[Braveheart81]

Eight out of twenty is nothing to chirp about. Hasn’t QC (Quade Cooper) (Quade Cooper) and Foleys teams been winning a bit in Japan?
I agree that he is the right choice for this RWC. I just wish he had an older head to help guide him along.

It's 8 out of 28 over the last two seasons for Gordon (he hasn't played all the games).

Foley's team won the whole comp. Cooper's team won promotion from the second division.

I'd potentially see it differently if we had a big group of players who had experienced a lot of success at the level below who hadn't got their opportunity at test level but that really isn't the case.

 

[stillmissit]

Eight out of twenty is nothing to chirp about. Hasn’t QC (Quade Cooper) (Quade Cooper) and Foleys teams been winning a bit in Japan?
I agree that he is the right choice for this RWC. I just wish he had an older head to help guide him along.

A great pity that Eddie didn't bring in Larkham as a mentor to Gordon, We could then all agree Eddie knew how to bring talented youngsters on..

 

[wamberal99]

He's 83 and I suspect he ain't too worried about pension peanuts.

I'd go with Stephen Hoiles if we need a Randwick Coach.