Wallabies 2023

[Brumby Runner]

I'm not really surprised but when we got dominated across the park it's kind of bizarre seeing how much of the focus is on Michael Hooper being the problem. He did get bullied in contact but he was also one of the few forwards who was putting himself in those positions to try and make a tackle. It doesn't matter who our 7 is, they're not going to flip the scales on the entire forward pack getting completely bossed.

When Bell is available there's probably more likelihood that Slipper ends up on the bench in my view. Our front row (particularly Ala'alatoa got absolutely bullied).

Uelese, T Hooper (whether through injury or otherwise) and Vunivalu are unlikely to be in the 23 again any time soon. It felt like they were selections to see whether they could leapfrog others into the eventual RWC squad and the answer seemed a pretty emphatic no.

Kerevi has to come back into 12.

Did you notice BH that Michael Hooper was quite often off side at ruck time but I think only pinged once. He is now quite slow to get back onside after an involvement even when that is one of his many missed tackles or non-tackles. He now has poor tackling technique often just throwing an arm out at the opposition player and overall is ineffective. His missed tackles on the No 12 (Esterhausen?) Were telling in terms of his lack of physicality nowadays.

 

[Highlander35]

Yeah, maybe.

To me he's just another guy like Gibbon that will do a job but we will never beat the top teams with them.

Is it reasonable to expect more than that from a 3rd or 4th in line prop? Putting France and South Africa to one side, how many Nations have more than 3 to 5 props total for whom that group down doesn't become a game of compromise, and you're deciding between players who are either not elite at anything, very young/old, or have significant flaws in something like fitness, discipline or scrumagging ability.

 

[stillmissit]

Nonguurr is was an out there and lucky selection. As mentioned if bell and tupou were fit it would have been them off the bench! But was talakai or pone would have been better bench options with tupou not available

we have no hookers

for 6 I wouldn’t mind seeing Leota getting a shot again, or even Wilson and valetini 6 and 8.
Kerevi needs to starts and hopefully kellaway and petaia are back soon

I thought Talakai would come into selections. Is he injured or not wanted?

 

[stillmissit]

Arnold didn't start and I specifically said whilst Frost and Hooper are big, they don't play big. Hoopers coach even said he needs to develop more power. Playing big means physically owning the space. Both those 2 give it up because whilst large humans, are not powerful humans.

I believe that a big young man can play hard, tough rugby but, these days the skill set to be able to play hard and stay on the pitch is difficult, ask Swinton. The Boks hit hard and we didn't and that is a motivation issue, combined with a gutless plan to stay out of the breakdown and kick it at every opportunity. This is the problem I had with EJ (Eddie Jones) V1 with his 'stay out of the breakdown and just get the lineouts and scrums over, they are only ??% of the game'.
Thinking about it, I suspect Vermeulen as Captain had a big part in how the Boks played.
You were talking specifically but I'm more interested in all the pack.

 

[stillmissit]

Did you notice BH that Michael Hooper was quite often off side at ruck time but I think only pinged once. He is now quite slow to get back onside after an involvement even when that is one of his many missed tackles or non-tackles. He now has poor tackling technique often just throwing an arm out at the opposition player and overall is ineffective. His missed tackles on the No 12 (Esterhausen?) Were telling in terms of his lack of physicality nowadays.

Sad but true BR. No wonder he is holding his shoulder during the game, chucking an arm out is begging for a hospital visit.

 

[stillmissit]

Is it reasonable to expect more than that from a 3rd or 4th in line prop? Putting France and South Africa to one side, how many Nations have more than 3 to 5 props total for whom that group down doesn't become a game of compromise, and you're deciding between players who are either not elite at anything, very young/old, or have significant flaws in something like fitness, discipline or scrumagging ability.

The problem is we are expecting development due to young age or replacements if they are old. The problem in AUS (not sure about NZ) is that no mother on our shores wants her boy to play prop.

 

[Braveheart81]

Sad but true BR. No wonder he is holding his shoulder during the game, chucking an arm out is begging for a hospital visit.

Except that clearly was a stinger because he did put his shoulder in when we were defending inside our 22.

I remember one pretty poor tackle attempt which I think was on Esterhuizen where he did put out an arm rather than getting a shoulder on.

Our starting forward pack missed 15 tackles. Hooper missed 3, Tom Hooper 3, Valetini, Frost, Ala'alatoa, Porecki 2, Slipper 1, Skelton 0. Again, it's weird to focus so intently on Michael Hooper given how comprehensively our pack got smashed.

 

[Dctarget]

Our starting forward pack missed 15 tackles. Hooper missed 3, Tom Hooper 3, Valetini, Frost, Ala'alatoa, Porecki 2, Slipper 1, Skelton 0. Again, it's weird to focus so intently on Michael Hooper given how comprehensively our pack got smashed.

3 missed tackles is pretty shit for our starting 7 and captain. He's being dragged as much as T. Hooper who missed 3 too. He tackled at 82% in Super. McReight tackled at 91%.

The rest of the pack (bar Skelton & Slipper) are being dragged for being weak too.

 

[Braveheart81]

The Boks hit hard and we didn't and that is a motivation issue, combined with a gutless plan to stay out of the breakdown and kick it at every opportunity.

We surely have to make more dominant tackles to be able to compete more at the breakdown. We were caught short in our defence re-aligning multiple times. It's all well and good to have a desire to compete more for the ball but it also needs to be viable and not just costing you players from your defensive line who have no possibility of winning the ball and also do nothign to slow the ball down.

Kicking as a tactic isn't the issue. The execution was awful. Our game plan required those kicks to be contestable and from my notes only one in the first half was and what's more, most weren't even in a position where we could make an immediate tackle and put pressure on the breakdown. We were just kicking away possession with no gain in doing so.

 

[Slim 293]

I thought they looked like a team that's had a fortnight under a completely new coaching team and looked lost at times... and not particularly fit enough.

Clearly defensive structures were a big problem... I find it hard to single out any player as there were too many scenarios where we were undermanned or had players not in the position to make a tackle, and on top of that we defended very passively.

At one point Tom Hooper had to make a tackle, and then immediately had to attempt to tackle the next player the ball was passed to because of the overlap.

 

[Braveheart81]

3 missed tackles is pretty shit for our starting 7 and captain. He's being dragged as much as T. Hooper who missed 3 too. He tackled at 82% in Super. McReight tackled at 91%.

The rest of the pack (bar Skelton & Slipper) are being dragged for being weak too.

I don't think it's good enough either. It's just pretty bizarre how much of the focus is on him being the problem.

 

[stillmissit]

Except that clearly was a stinger because he did put his shoulder in when we were defending inside our 22.

I remember one pretty poor tackle attempt which I think was on Esterhuizen where he did put out an arm rather than getting a shoulder on.

Our starting forward pack missed 15 tackles. Hooper missed 3, Tom Hooper 3, Valetini, Frost, Ala'alatoa, Porecki 2, Slipper 1, Skelton 0. Again, it's weird to focus so intently on Michael Hooper given how comprehensively our pack got smashed.

Agree about picking on one player when the whole lot was crap. He was captain and needs to set an example and get the boys into the game.
I suspect the numbers would have been higher if they attempted more tackles, at least Hooper was trying, several of them made few attempts at tackles. Are there any stats on attempted tackles?

 

[stillmissit]

I think the attitude Vermeulen is talking about as motivation for that win is missing in our boys and I don't know why.

MSN

 

[Dctarget]

Have a bit of sagacity & calm from Mr. Cooper before we burn the entire thing down.

“We want to win every game. No doubt. It’s a performance industry,” Cooper said. “The reality is we’re playing against the best team in the world. The World Cup final is months away. This is the first step in that journey. With every journey, it’s never smooth sailing. Under Eddie’s guidance, we will work towards that goal, which is to be World Cup champions.

“Any loss is obviously a tough pill to swallow. There’s a hell of a lot of lessons in that game. It’s a very tough place to play and history will tell you that. You can look at it as brutal or you can look at it as an opportunity.”

Asked if he thought there would be a change in intensity this week, Cooper replied: “You’ll have to ask Eddie that. He understands that we played against the world champions in a place that hardly anybody has won. Some of Australia’s best teams have played there and haven’t conquered that hurdle.

“As a team, we haven’t had a lot of time together. It’s continuing to build our combinations the way we want to play and build belief and clarity in that.”

“I don’t think it was a poor performance,” Cooper said of his own game. “I haven’t played Test footy in a year and it was great being back out there. For me, it’s about the consistency of preparation. I’m looking forward to the next game, whatever my role may be.”

Cooper said he was “super proud” of debutant Carter Gordon, who came on late when South Africa had the game wrapped up.

“He did an outstanding job coming on at the end,” Cooper said. “It was a tough spot coming on. To debut and score was very similar to my debut 15 years ago against Italy. It’s just the beginning for him. It’s all ahead of him.”

Wallabies won’t hit panic button despite Boks thrashing, says Quade

The Wallabies veteran, who has a case of “Darren Lockyer voice” after a blow to the throat, believes the heavy loss to the world champions must be kept in perspective.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

If Rodda was a horse he would’ve been shot…

Lol

 

[LeCheese]

“As a team, we haven’t had a lot of time together. It’s continuing to build our combinations the way we want to play and build belief and clarity in that.”

This was the overall standout to me from the game - they played like a team that had been pulled at random off the street 10min prior. The continuity and structures were just not there.

 

[Linerunner2023]

I remember the debate on Sio a while ago! I was a big advocate for sio! But someone mentioned why use him when we have Gibbon in Aus, well gibbon does not look like a dominate LH at all, with Sio he had the ability to come on and dominate like tupou

while we have Gibbon he will only play back up V the weaker sides in the RWC
We need Sio and Pone and the 3rd LH and TH

 

[Sword of Justice]

I remember the debate on Sio a while ago! I was a big advocate for sio! But someone mentioned why use him when we have Gibbon in Aus, well gibbon does not look like a dominate LH at all, with Sio he had the ability to come on and dominate like tupou

while we have Gibbon he will only play back up V the weaker sides in the RWC
We need Sio and Pone and the 3rd LH and TH

Sio had some good games but Tupou is levels above him at his best. I don't think it's right to say Sio ever dominated at test level.

 

[Linerunner2023]

Sio had some good games but Tupou is levels above him at his best. I don't think it's right to say Sio ever dominated at test level.

Between 2015 and 2019 Sio was right up there for LH, fell off with injury and slipper coming to brumbies but again played well at back end of 2022 with wallabies coming oft the bench with tupou and doing an Aus bomb squad on other sides! He also gets around the field very well for a big guy
He is certainly a better option then gibbon and at worst will hold a scrum unlike gibbon

nongurr will get better. Was potentially unlucky getting out into a position when he was not quite ready yet and there were more seasoned options
He will bounce back as he is a big unit and only 22

but Eddie through him to the wolves

An undertaking what Eddie is doing trying to show a point of difference to Rennie with Tom hooper,
Suli etc

the big test for Eddie he how he bounces back and gets on control of what is wrong unlike Rennie who could not coach the mistakes out of the team who keept making the same errors

 

[Brumby Runner]

Except that clearly was a stinger because he did put his shoulder in when we were defending inside our 22.

I remember one pretty poor tackle attempt which I think was on Esterhuizen where he did put out an arm rather than getting a shoulder on.

Our starting forward pack missed 15 tackles. Hooper missed 3, Tom Hooper 3, Valetini, Frost, Ala'alatoa, Porecki 2, Slipper 1, Skelton 0. Again, it's weird to focus so intently on Michael Hooper given how comprehensively our pack got smashed.

I don't feel weird at all about criticising Hooper for his performances the last couple of years BH. I also criticise our front row, especially the hookers, and Skelton for having little impact on the game. It is a problem over at least half the forward pack sent out against SA, but it was unfortunately consistent form from the Hooper we've watched in Super rugby this year and in tests last year and this. And it's quite precious of you to compare his missed tackles count with say Rob Valetini, who put on at least half a dozen big hits to counter the missed tackles. Michael does not do big hits, but that's ok because he's, well, he's Michael Hooper. But nearly every No 7 world-wide these days puts in big hits except ours.

Michael's day has gone. He was good and deserved his many accolades but I fear he will never reach the level again to justify his inclusion in a test match.