Isn't this essentially what we want?
Wallabies 2023
- Thread starter RugbyReg
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Isn't this essentially what we want?
stillmissit
Peter Johnson (47)
TSR, nobody should argue that it ain't the whole group that is responsible. Some players lift due to coaches scaring them and some by making them feel at home.
I felt some of the players were letting Rennie down at times, particularly when trying to close out a win.
The bottom line is managers make things happen and their head is the first one cut off in a clean up, several of Rennies players will be feeling nervous at this time and with good reason as theirs could be the next head to go in the Jones clean up, assuming he has one!
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stillmissit
Peter Johnson (47)
As long as you accept the work others have done in building the foundations, but most people don't, they only see results and not what went into it. I am not sure Eddie has done this in taking the Wallaby job but time will tell if he's the messiah. One thing you can be sure of if it doesn't work he won't hang around as Cheika and Rennie wanted to, he'll be gone to a retirement plan in the USA, Japan or wherever.
Of course. No one is ever starting from scratch. The bulk of the squad will remain the same and most of the changes over the next couple of years will be newer players coming in.
I wasn't a fan of RA sacking Rennie a year early because I thought it was a waste of money. I also wasn't enamoured by the Eddie Jones appointment. He's made all the right noise since arriving in my view and is absolutely creating engagement and interest in Australian Rugby which we sorely need. I'm hopeful he can deliver good results on the field.
stillmissit
Peter Johnson (47)
You and I are singing from the same book and I am just hoping to Christ it all works out, I think it's a big gamble and not sure what the downside is if we don't make it.
I don't have great expectations but if we get to the semi's I won't be happy but will be satisfied with our boys efforts and look forward to 2024.
stillmissit
Peter Johnson (47)
Looking back on it I think regardless of all the covid crap and injuries (regardless who was responsible) Rennie did a pretty good job and when you look at how France and Ireland are playing atm we can see what has excited Eddie..
Tomthumb
Chilla Wilson (44)
In crunch time, players are a reflection of their coach
Tomthumb
Chilla Wilson (44)
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
They are also a reflection of their pathway system, the quality of their club S&C, the level of overall depth in rugby, the cooperation in Super Rugby to adopting a national framework, the ability of Australian rugby to successfully bring through consistent talent in key positions (like 10 where Rennie had a choice between seasoned vets who couldn’t stay injury free or novices who had played 1-2 yrs of pro senior rugby) and the ability of the Australian rugby set up to provide the level of high level rugby to develop talent.
Not saying Rennie shouldn’t have done better but whether we are talking Jones or Rennie putting such a big emphasis on the head coach without any reflection of the peripheral issues is madness.
Lightblue
Arch Winning (36)
Rennie had over 23 top players out injured….
Members Section
John Thornett (49)
Eddie popping into La Rochelle, you wouldn't think he would be going to see Skelton if he wasn't a realistic chance of being one of the overseas players at the rwc
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
I don't think anyone doubts that Skelton is a good chance of making the squad. Certainly he's the first lock picked from OS and just about the only player who could force out one of Cooper, Kerevi and Koroibete when everyone is fit (assuming it stays at 3).
The Ghost of Raelene
Simon Poidevin (60)
I can definitely get behind at Skelton & Frost 2nd Row partnership.
I expect the OS player number to be whatever Eddie needs to cover positions in the team. If this lands at 5,6 then so be it.
I expect the OS player number to be whatever Eddie needs to cover positions in the team. If this lands at 5,6 then so be it.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
Well I didn’t specifically mention that point as I have no idea as to whether that is a valid claim or not. I agree it doesn’t look good. But plenty of pro rugby teams have periodic bad injury tolls. The fact that the Reds, Rebels, Force, Tahs and Brumbies have all experienced a period of high injuries in their respective squads (and some of the Kiwi teams too) says to me that it is likely to be over simplistic to attribute it to Rennie alone. But, sure, it seems to high to be just bad luck.
Maybe your closer to the situation then me but I just don’t think I can make an informed comment on that without either a reasonable S&C training or without knowing much of the inside workings.
Overall I think you can say that the Rennie era fairly much maintained the status quo for the Wallabies.
He took over a team that wasn't doing well and was very inconsistent. He left the team still not performing well and still very inconsistent.
I don't think the team is in a worse place than when he took it over but I also think it's hard to argue that it's in a better place. The most glaring issue is the complete uncertainty over the 10 position and seemingly our best option right now is a soon to be 35 year old recovering from an ruptured Achilles.
I still question whether it was money well spent to pull the pin a year early but we'll get to see what happens this year.
He took over a team that wasn't doing well and was very inconsistent. He left the team still not performing well and still very inconsistent.
I don't think the team is in a worse place than when he took it over but I also think it's hard to argue that it's in a better place. The most glaring issue is the complete uncertainty over the 10 position and seemingly our best option right now is a soon to be 35 year old recovering from an ruptured Achilles.
I still question whether it was money well spent to pull the pin a year early but we'll get to see what happens this year.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
I’m confident we are in a better place - but again, that’s not all due to Rennie. Our young 10s all now have several years pro rugby and there is genuine competition. There is genuine competition and depth at lock and backrow that we haven’t had in 15 years. We have unearthed a few clear test level players in the likes of Valetini, Frost, Ikitau & others like Kerevi, Koriobete & White are playing career best rugby. Young guys like Lonergan x 2, McReight, Wilson, Gleeson, McDermott & Gordon will be putting pressure on the established core group. Guys like Foketi and Holloway aren’t superstars but provide key depth. By WC time we will have a core group who are 24 - 28 who have 20 + tests of experience, plus a couple of good rookies and grizzled veterans.
Injuries may still cruel us. I’d feel more comfortable if I knew for sure Tupou, Bell, Rodda, Phillips, Cooper, Kerevi & Kellaway were all fit and in form. We currently look vulnerable at 1, 2, 3 & 15. Let’s be honest - even having half of those guys makes a huge difference as they are all point of difference players for us and most are in positions of weakness.
But I personally feel we are in a much better place and it is probably the perfect time for someone like Jones to come in and really whip a promising group into something special.
Injuries may still cruel us. I’d feel more comfortable if I knew for sure Tupou, Bell, Rodda, Phillips, Cooper, Kerevi & Kellaway were all fit and in form. We currently look vulnerable at 1, 2, 3 & 15. Let’s be honest - even having half of those guys makes a huge difference as they are all point of difference players for us and most are in positions of weakness.
But I personally feel we are in a much better place and it is probably the perfect time for someone like Jones to come in and really whip a promising group into something special.
I think the quality of players we have available and where the Wallabies sit are somewhat different questions to answer.
I agree that we have better depth and competition for places than we probably had when Rennie took over. I don't think that is really due to coaching though. We've just had some better age groups come through after some very lean years.
I agree we have a few very good players but do we have the talent to make the leap from that 5-8 sort of ranking of teams to back into the top 3 or 4?
My main point is that we finished 2022 with a bit of a where to next? situation with the Wallabies. It was a poor year where it felt like any gains the Wallabies might have made in the previous couple of years were somewhat erased. We had poor discipline and consistency and as a team it didn't really feel like there was any measurable improvement.
I agree that Eddie Jones has a pretty decent selection of players to work with.
I agree that we have better depth and competition for places than we probably had when Rennie took over. I don't think that is really due to coaching though. We've just had some better age groups come through after some very lean years.
I agree we have a few very good players but do we have the talent to make the leap from that 5-8 sort of ranking of teams to back into the top 3 or 4?
My main point is that we finished 2022 with a bit of a where to next? situation with the Wallabies. It was a poor year where it felt like any gains the Wallabies might have made in the previous couple of years were somewhat erased. We had poor discipline and consistency and as a team it didn't really feel like there was any measurable improvement.
I agree that Eddie Jones has a pretty decent selection of players to work with.