Wallabies 2023

[redblack]

I wonder if Kuenzle can play himself into the squad at 12 from the Aus A squad?

I also really like the idea of Frost at 6. The kid is bloody fast and has a reasonable running game for his size (imagine when he puts some more muscle on, could be the next Fardy?)

Frost looked more like a traffic cop directing defensive players than getting involved on the weekend, granted he is athletic would like to see him do more of the hard yards required of a tight 5. For me I would get Langi Gleeson on as soon as we can, he has the x-factor and if you watch the Australian A games has no fear

 

[Lightblue]

I think it was fair both White and Gordon got there chances. But given both haven't set the world alight. Surely Tate now gets his chance.

With that in mind, he should be starting half for Australia A ?

 

[whitefalcon]

Worse were:

Foley @ 42% (8 from 19)
Loloesio @ 63% (5 from 8)
White @ 65% (24 from 37)
Wright @ 67% (12 from 18)
Kellaway @ 67% (10 from 15)

Interesting though as excluding white the rest play in the back three on defence usually.

Whites are bad, as are Foley's the rest though could be largely trying to run down a break

 

[Lightblue]

I was talking about Gordon only, he has struggled & for me shouldn't been ahead of Tate.

Ok, although I can't see why Petaia is still getting picked ahead of Vunivalu and possibly Pietsch or Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase). Played 20 Tests and still looks to be out of his depth. The same with Lolesio. Time to give Edmed or Donaldson a go, which could eventuate after the Australia A campaign?

 

[Wallaby Man]

I think it was fair both White and Gordon got there chances. But given both haven't set the world alight. Surely Tate now gets his chance.

Tate’s issue is he runs like Dupont, but passes like Phipps and kicks like Luke Burgess. (Apologies to Burgess as can’t overly remember if he was a bad kicker or not)

He’s not going to get a serious look in until that’s fixed. He’s a mile ahead in all attacking attributes to the other contenders expect for the core aspects of passing and kicking where he isn’t at the same standard.

 

[Viking]

Rugby Champs done so time for some stats thanks to what I assume are Opta Stats on the SANZAR site.

Defensive Players of the season:

1 – Fraser McReight – 49 tackles @ 92.45%
2 – Rob Valetini – 49 @ 84.48%
3 – Allan Ala'alatoa – 42 @ 93.33%
4 – Pete Samu – 38 @ 88.37%
5 – James Slipper – 31 @ 81.58%

Biggest Attacking Influence ((Clean Breaks + Defenders Beaten + Offloads + Try Assists) x Metres/Run):

1 – Len Ikitau – 91.67
2 – Pete Samu – 91.33
3 – Tom Wright – 90.40
4 – Marika Koroibete – 87.31
5 – Jordan Petaia – 65.71

Biggest Game Disrupter ((Clean Breaks + Defenders Beaten + Offloads + Turnovers Won + Line Out Steals)/ Minutes Played):
So basically who makes shit happen the most regularly (min 81 mins played)

1 – Pete Samu – 13.89 (basically does something game breaking every almost 14 minutes)
2 – Marika Koroibete – 18.80
3 – Len Ikitau – 22.43
4 – Rob Valetini – 26.11
5 – Hunter Paisami – 26.57

Work Rate (Minutes Played / (Runs + Turn Overs Won + Tackled):
(min 81 mins played)

1 – Taniel Tupou - 3.74 (does one of the above just under every 4 minutes)
2 – Pete Samu – 3.85
3 – Fraser McReight – 4.22
4 – Rob Valetini – 4.23
5 – Dave Porecki – 4.77

Uh Oh (Minutes Played / (Turn Over Conceded + Missed Tackle + Penalties Conceded + (Yellow Card x 3) + (Red Card x 5)):
Minimum of 81 minutes played

1 – Bernard Foley – 9.63 (basically stuffs up almost every 10 mins)
2 – Taniela Tupou – 11.22
3 – Jake Gordon – 12.00
4 – Dave Porecki – 14.30
5 – Nic White – 14.86

Worth noting the opposite stats:

1 – Allan Ala'alatoa – 47.43 (basically stuffs up once every 47 or so minutes)
2 – Rory Arnold – 40
3 – Folau Fainga'a – 39.67
4 – Len Ikitau – 39.25
5 – Reece Hodge – 36.50

So take from that what you will. I'll take from it that Samu and Ikitau were our most important players with Bobby V not far behind while McReight was an excellent fill in for Hooper.

Tupou's work rate surprised me but not his error rate. AAA is the clear preference for the THP jersey.

Composure in our halves is a real worry.

Awesome stats. Shows some really interesting patterns.

Foley's error rate still a worry.

Porecki's error rate a surprise and interesting. Makes me lean towards FF (Folau Fainga'a) as first choice Hooker. He has more impact around the park and stats say less errors.

Samu, Ikitau, Valetini, and AAA cementing there spots (i swear it's not my Brumbies bias, it's the stats!)

 

[Viking]

Tate’s issue is he runs like Dupont, but passes like Phipps and kicks like Luke Burgess.

He’s not going to get a serious look in until that’s fixed. He’s a mile ahead in all attacking attributes to the other contenders expect for the core aspects of passing and kicking where he isn’t at the same standard.

I think Tate's kicking has got a lot better. Gordon's is over-rated. Gordon kick numerous bombs that traveled about 5 meters. Tate kicked a nice 50/22 in his cameo's. White still better then both by some margin.

but yeah, Tate's passing needs some work, and overall game-management/decision making. But I don't think they are that poor that he shouldn't get a crack by now though.

 

[Lightblue]

Good idea... fresh off their second place in the Pacific Nations Cup.

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[Slim 293]

What is that supposed to mean?

Apologies, ignore me - I actually misread your post...

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Foley's error rate still a worry.

Porecki's error rate a surprise and interesting. Makes me lean towards FF (Folau Fainga'a) (Folau Fainga'a) as first choice Hooker. He has more impact around the park and stats say less errors.

Foley hasn't had a heap of footy and he was always trying to do something but yes the errors are high.

Porecki seems to really have a crack but absolutely met when he hits the line. I know he wouldn't be considered for the EOYT but it wouldnt surprise me if Tolu Latu was the starting Hooker for the WC if he has a good Super season even though he will likely start the season from the bench.

 

[Tomthumb]

Tate’s issue is he runs like Dupont, but passes like Phipps and kicks like Luke Burgess. (Apologies to Burgess as can’t overly remember if he was a bad kicker or not)

He’s not going to get a serious look in until that’s fixed. He’s a mile ahead in all attacking attributes to the other contenders expect for the core aspects of passing and kicking where he isn’t at the same standard.

Jake Gordon is hardly a noted passer and Tate kicked out only 50/22 of the tournament

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

For me I tend to think there is high chance of an error on trying to take the kick and then you get feed to a scrum or advantage further up the field.

 

[Lightblue]

For me I tend to think there is high chance of an error on trying to take the kick and then you get feed to a scrum or advantage further up the field.

I get that. Maybe then, to get rid of it, a rule needs to come in where the kicking side can't compete at all with the catcher on a high ball? It is a blight on the game.

 

[Dctarget]

Foley hasn't had a heap of footy and he was always trying to do something but yes the errors are high.

Porecki seems to really have a crack but absolutely met when he hits the line. I know he wouldn't be considered for the EOYT but it wouldnt surprise me if Tolu Latu was the starting Hooker for the WC if he has a good Super season even though he will likely start the season from the bench.

I actually think Latu might go on the EOYT. Watching Marx, Montoya (who was my favourite player of the TRC) and Samisoni, our hookers are outrageously below standard. I'd suggest that's the position we're most behind the pack in.

 

[Viking]

Serious question to "Forumers"....Why do you think the box kick is so prevalent now in the game? Is it due to the better defence of all teams now?
Back line moves from the rare scrum that gets the ball out, seem non existent.
Do simple run around moves from 10 to 12 then 10 wraps around to get it back from 12 not work anymore? Never see it . one of the simplest yet most effective moves ever.
The little grubber in behind the backs?
Or scrum center field, stack backs left and then run open side with fullback and winger with more space......again never used.
Attack is predictable.....pick and drive near the line or box kick nearly everywhere else.
Bores me senseless.
Thoughts?

I think it's simple logic. Teams are playing smarter now it's in the professional era.

I think the stats are clear if you kick it 40metres the opposition have an easy catch and run it back 15m = 25m gain but loss of possession.

If you box kick = the same 25m gain but a chance of regather or putting immediate pressure on the catcher.

So it doesn't really make sense kicking long anymore, your just gifting possession, unless it's an immediate pressure reliever in your own 22, but then your still going to go for touch.

To add to that, teams fighting for territory or wanting to exit there own halves, box kicks seem the easiest and most effective way to do that. But yes I agree, also the most boring.

 

[Viking]

I assume there would be similar stats for attacking teams giving away penalties, which are probably lower than a regather off a box kick. So teams are box kicking more.

 

[Brumby Runner]

A likely flaw in the methodology where I use metres / carry as a multiplier. As we know Koro does a lot more heavy work in tight so had a lot more carries but his M/C stat is lower than Tom’s. On the ‘composure’ stat (uh oh) he is almost twice as ‘composed’ as Wright.

Nor does this measure dumb stuff like quick taps (nor having your foot in touch while catching the ball with the line wide open).

Dropping the ball cold in the process of scoring? OTOH, would Wright's two YCs be uh oh moments or positives as they immediately stopped tries being scored?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Interesting though as excluding white the rest play in the back three on defence usually.

Whites are bad, as are Foley's the rest though could be largely trying to run down a break

I wonder how many of White's (and Gordon's and Tate's for that matter) misses are missed covering tackles where he has just failed to get to the man down the sideline? Our No 9s seem to have that role. And those stats can be skewed by the tackler being just fast enough to get a hand on the player in possession but not fast enough to make an effective tackle. The fallacy is that if he's not fast enough to make some contact then it doesn't count as a missed tackle.

 

[Viking]

I get that. Maybe then, to get rid of it, a rule needs to come in where the kicking side can't compete at all with the catcher on a high ball? It is a blight on the game.

Nah, I think they just need to address how slow the ball comes out of the ruck. I think teams kick less if they have less time to set-up. How on earth it got to this 2 man caterpillars plus a blocker is crazy. The ref should call 'use it' as soon as it's available then u got 3 seconds or its open play.

There will be a hell of a lot less box kicks cos they simply don't have time to set-up. There will be more charge downs. Teams could still caterpillar (let's say with a 1 man limit) if they are real quick, but the game is that much faster.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Serious question to "Forumers"....Why do you think the box kick is so prevalent now in the game? Is it due to the better defence of all teams now?
Back line moves from the rare scrum that gets the ball out, seem non existent.
Do simple run around moves from 10 to 12 then 10 wraps around to get it back from 12 not work anymore? Never see it . one of the simplest yet most effective moves ever.
The little grubber in behind the backs?
Or scrum center field, stack backs left and then run open side with fullback and winger with more space......again never used.
Attack is predictable.....pick and drive near the line or box kick nearly everywhere else.
Bores me senseless.
Thoughts?

That looks to be precisely the game plan the Wallabies had in every test match. Box kicks can be handy if the chase is good and the chaser actually competes for the ball and maybe sometimes wins it back. But our chasers rarely compete and we only regain possession if the opposition catcher spills it. We only seem to do half a job with that aspect of the plan. And the interminable pick and drives or hit ups one wide of the ruck are killing us. Get into good scoring positions and the forwards just take over until one of them invariably loses possession or commits an infringement. Get the ball wide and let the backs score once inside the opposition 20m area.