Wallabies 2021

[The Nomad]

If the powers to be felt they needed a baby sitter for MC. All they did was throw money at a problem they perceived rather than fixing it. Those powers to be are no longer there and I don’t believe Johnson still needs to be there. That’s before anyone passes judgement on his performance in this fiasco. For a guy who’s job is all about communication this reflects poorly on him.

It’s 2021 , nearly 2022. He did a job that no one else seemed to either want to do , or be capable of.

2018/19 were pretty dark times .

Our pathways now are aligned with the majority of the Tier 1 nations . We have a coaching group that most seem happy with and a team improving with players buying in .

Sure the issues with the off shore contracted players are now biting us on the arse , but we’ve at least seen some light. Better than the darkness of 2018/19.

Anyone wish we were still with Foxtel ?

 

[Braveheart81]

SMH tweeting Noah Lolesio has been called up

As the obvious first cab off the rank with the current playing roster why was he not taken in the first place, hindsight is easy but it made no sense not taking him to learn, I do not buy the sales pitch we were thrown about needing pre seasons....

It has taken Cooper withdrawing and Hodge getting injured to get to this position. I don't think it was unreasonable not to include him in the squad. There would have been the thought that even with an injury to Cooper or JOC (James O'Connor) he still wouldn't be in the matchday 23 for any of the games.

He's spent a lot of time in the squad this year and played a bunch of tests. Arguably he's got worse as the season progressed. It's a long season for a young player.

The logic of leaving him home for preseason is not just about getting him that extra time working on fitness and strength but also to give him a decent break from rugby.

The players who return from the end of year tour get a shorter Christmas break and a much shorter preseason.

 

[Ignoto]

to be honest this whole fiasco reflects badly not so much on the players (although my opinion of McMahon has gone down, but we never know the full story) but it does reflect badly on Scott Johnson. And I think there is one other guy at RA who looks after the player contracting who I guess would have been involved. Just dire work by both

Reg, for those of us out of the loop. Can you elaborate on this?

I haven't paid enough attention and I can only see it as; the clubs were meant to let their players go, they probably put a bit of pressure on them to say we want you back in Japan and if you don't X will happen.

Other than RA kicking up a massive stink (noting the Super clubs are trying to create partnerships with Japanese clubs), and demanding they release the players.

What else should Scott J and RA do? Genuine question.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Quade and Kerevi’s social media posts don’t fill me with confidence for their ongoing involvements.

Maybe you are reading it with prejudices against RA/SJ. I read it more about the club but who knows

 

[Derpus]

to be honest this whole fiasco reflects badly not so much on the players (although my opinion of McMahon has gone down, but we never know the full story) but it does reflect badly on Scott Johnson. And I think there is one other guy at RA who looks after the player contracting who I guess would have been involved. Just dire work by both

If they just wanted to hang out with family or have a rest that's perfectly fine - why not just say that? no one cares MK etc are taking time off to do just that. If RA have fucked up in the negotiation process then why would Marinos kick up a stink? I often wonder what Johnson does to earn his enormous salary.

It's kinda weird it was so hard for everyone to figure out if they could play...

I still think the most likely scenario is that the Japanese clubs leant on them last minute after initially indicating they were on board.

 

[Joe Blow]

Maybe you are reading it with prejudices against RA/SJ. I read it more about the club but who knows

They both seem to want to keep playing for Australia and say they are “angry” and ”hurt”. Seems pretty clear they were both forced into a decision they did not want to make. It reinforces their clubs weight in all of this.
Both players, but particularly Kerevi, have a lot of pull and could demand reasonable scope to continue to play test rugby. Push back a little when at the negotiation table.
To be honest, having Noah there does not fill me with confidence. He is serviceable at best.

 

[Viking]

They both seem to want to keep playing for Australia and say they are “angry” and ”hurt”. Seems pretty clear they were both forced into a decision they did not want to make. It reinforces their clubs weight in all of this.
Both players, but particularly Kerevi, have a lot of pull and could demand reasonable scope to continue to play test rugby. Push back a little when at the negotiation table.
To be honest, having Noah there does not fill me with confidence. He is serviceable at best.

I agree, although I have a feeling covid put a big spin on things contractually. I think technically they may have been contracted to play a certain amount of games etc. which obviously hasn't happened.... so my feeling is it could have led to a contractual mess if they didn't just agree to go home. Maybe the Jap clubs were still paying them for ages whilst they weren't even playing during lock-down. So pay them their million dollars back or come back and play kind of thing.

 

[Viking]

So my point is basically, I feel the clubs forced the players into it and they barely had any choice unless they left the club, went into a lawsuit, paid big bucks, or some pretty unreasonable issue etc.

 

[Derpus]

Yeah, Rennie:

“Look, ideally, we want guys that are desperate to be Wallabies. I know Quade says he is, but he’s torn. If he had the support of the club and the blessing of the club, he would have come, but he hasn’t.”

Full article:https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...d-into-spring-tour-squad-20211028-p5944h.html

He all but says the clubs said no. Anyway, guess it is what it is.

Personally I'm happy with JOC (James O'Connor) and Noah at 10. They'll be there in two years.

 

[Joe Blow]

So my point is basically, I feel the clubs forced the players into it and they barely had any choice unless they left the club, went into a lawsuit, paid big bucks, or some pretty unreasonable issue etc.

I’m sure thats pretty close to what happened. My point is that moving forward they should both make it clear to their clubs that they wish to continue to play for Australia. They only get one career and now that the door is open I reckon they will both be keen to jump through.

 

[Joe Blow]

Yeah, Rennie:



Full article:https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...d-into-spring-tour-squad-20211028-p5944h.html

He all but says the clubs said no. Anyway, guess it is what it is.

Personally I'm happy with JOC (James O'Connor) and Noah at 10. They'll be there in two years.

Quade was a big step above. Kerevi too. They both made a massive difference to our performance and results. Hope there is a way to keep them on board between now and the RWC.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

They both seem to want to keep playing for Australia and say they are “angry” and ”hurt”. Seems pretty clear they were both forced into a decision they did not want to make. It reinforces their clubs weight in all of this.
Both players, but particularly Kerevi, have a lot of pull and could demand reasonable scope to continue to play test rugby. Push back a little when at the negotiation table.
To be honest, having Noah there does not fill me with confidence. He is serviceable at best.

But as Dctarget said it might also be the comments from Marinos.

 

[Joe Blow]

But as Dctarget said it might also be the comments from Marinos.

I think Marinos is just annoyed like us. We were on a roll and turned our fortunes around and then……….poof. Quade and Kerevi gone.
The whole situation was pretty fluid due to covid and Kerevi being round after the 7s. I imagine RA will work on putting something more predictable in place for next year.

 

[TSR]

I bet Paisami is glad he toured now

 

[upthereds#!]

Quade and Kerevi’s social media posts don’t fill me with confidence for their ongoing involvements.

Quades is a hell of a lot more zen then kerevis

 

[A mutterer]

I think Marinos is just annoyed like us. We were on a roll and turned our fortunes around and then……….poof. Quade and Kerevi gone.
The whole situation was pretty fluid due to covid and Kerevi being round after the 7s. I imagine RA will work on putting something more predictable in place for next year.

I'm not sure this is just on the club.

I think there's a pretty good chance that the players were offered a choice about playing, and reminding them that their salary was negotiated on being 100% available (and less likely to be injured with no international duties). It would be reasonable to renegotiate their salary and adjust this in line with reduced availability and no ongoing exclusivity.

While it's not a great outcome for anyone, and may actually have some long term ramifications for Japanese clubs recruiting players still in their prime, I'm drawing a line through the sand. And probably a line through McMahon's name, hard to see him in a gold jersey again.

 

[Wilson]

I think there's a pretty good chance that the players were offered a choice about playing, and reminding them that their salary was negotiated on being 100% available (and less likely to be injured with no international duties). It would be reasonable to renegotiate their salary and adjust this in line with reduced availability and no ongoing exclusivity.

I really doubt there is any scope for renegotiation of their salaries within their current contracts because they're playing test match rugby. Unless they had signed something to say they would not play for Australia anymore on signing (I'm not sure world rugby allows this) then there is a reasonable expectation that they could be selected for Australia during the reg 9 windows. Quade in particular was already available under the Giteau law when he signed, but I doubt Australia's changing selection policies would be legally relevant.

None of this is to say that the clubs didn't value them based on a belief that they wouldn't be playing for the Wallabies and that this changing wouldn't reduce their value in future contracts, just that I don't see how it could affect their current contracts.

 

[barbarian]

This is all a bit messy, but I'd be surprised if this was the last we saw of Cooper or Kerevi. Remember sitting here in July we never knew they were available (or, to be honest, up to International level), and now all of a sudden we can't live without them?!?!

It's clear that all parties were trying to feel their way through a new situation, with mixed success. We got Kerevi for the Olympics and then the RC, and we got Quade for the RC too. I don't think it can be viewed as a failure, in fact I think it's the opposite. It was wildly successful, but sadly we couldn't quite get it to last as long as we wanted. In the end it will go a long way to informing our new policy - another silver lining.

It's clear both players have a lot of love for Rennie and the group. Time will heal these wounds. The England series will be a blockbuster, the World Cup is not long after that. After seeing what Quade and Samu have to offer I think we'll be throwing everything at them to come back and eventually I think they will say yes.

The other fact that's been lost in this is the appearance of Skelton, Arnold and Latu. So we're losing a few backs but we're gaining a few gun forwards. I'm still really excited by the tour for this reason. JOC (James O'Connor) and Paisami will be able replacements at 10-12 and with a (hopefully) better platform they can do more than enough to deliver us a few wins.

 

[wamberal]

Everybody seems to have forgotten, or overlooked, the fact that Kerevi had a fair bit of access to play Olympic Sevens.

He also played internationals during our domestic season. If all this was done voluntarily by his club, why on earth would he demand more, like a petulant child?

 

[Pfitzy]

Everybody seems to have forgotten, or overlooked, the fact that Kerevi had a fair bit of access to play Olympic Sevens.

He also played internationals during our domestic season. If all this was done voluntarily by his club, why on earth would he demand more, like a petulant child?

A couple of things: season is starting 7th January in Japan, so preseason is on.

On twitter GeeRob was saying that almost all these contracts have injury clauses: if you get injured playing for some other team, they can tear up your contract.

Combine these two factors, and you get a situation where a player might take a risk if they're far enough away from preseason to recover, but not into November when they're expected to do at least 6 weeks of preseason.

(It would be churlish of the Japan Rugby nuffies to stop players representing at the Tokyo Olympics )