Wallabies 2021

[Rugbynutter39]

That's nonsense. Just fucking own your provincial bias for god sake. There is nothing wrong with hating Hooper because he's from NSW. It's worse when you blokes cook up a crock of shit to try and hide the fact.

To me ridiculous to suggest hooper on past form does not deserve to be in consideration for starting 7 - what stats or games do people regularly watch to come up with this - but on captaincy that is another matter and would agree giving say JOC (James O'Connor) the captaincy would not be a bad thing.

Mcreight on form could challenge hooper for starting 7 but to suggest he deserves to be out of the 23 is just delusional

 

[TSR]

Regarding Hooper -- I don't get how people don't think his captaincy at minimum should be stripped -- he's just not good enough as a captain, he's probably the worst in World Rugby in terms of Ref Management and regardless he was the one at the head during what is probably the worst period of Australian Rugby in terms of wins, and his performance as captain showed zero improvement under Rennie. It's especially concerning when you look at how O'Connor is steering the Reds around at the moment, he's probably not being as vocal with the Referees as you'd like, but at least he's not a net negative with the Refs as Hooper has been.

As for inclusion in the squad, I think he's obviously done enough to be basically automatically in the wider squad, and obviously then Rennie & the team will make whatever assessments they do. But like I have said he'll probably be an automatic selection at 7 on reputation regardless of how well McReight or anyone else plays because largely (squad training aside and that's quite limited) you can't make a fair assessment of his form. Hopefully any issues of being undercooked are quickly worked out in camp.

I have question marks about Hoopers decision making - but if you listen to any of the players he is obviously very respected and sets very high training standards and expectations.

I just think it is one of those decisions that, unless you are inside the squad, it is hard to have an informed decision on.

I think the other valid question in the is - if you strip the captaincy off him, who do you give it too.

IMO any of the other captaincy candidates - Ala'alatoa, Gordon, JOC (James O'Connor) & To'omua - there are genuine questions as to whether they will be starters. The only other candidate off the top of my head might be Slipper - but he’s likely to be off after 60 (assuming he is favoured to start over Bell).

 

[Dctarget]

Carving up semi professionals is also not quite an accurate portrayal of the Top League. It's stacked full of international stars, of which only the minority percentage are truly long in the tooth these days. E.g two weeks ago he had a run in with Suntory (McMahon, Beauden Barrett, Kerevi, Tevita Li). They have either just played or are about to play Panasonic.

Sure, it's not like the old Super Rugby where you are consistently getting battle hardened most weeks against top teams. However, it's not like Super Rugby AU gives the players that either (each team gets to play the Force and the Tahs regularly who would get smoked by a few Top League teams)

Exhibit A: https://www.reddit.com/r/rugbyunion/comments/mjt67c/bit_of_unfortunate_defending_from_japans_top/

Exhibit B: https://www.rugbypass.com/news/watc...eard-of-dummies-is-just-another-day-in-japan/

 

[Dctarget]

I have question marks about Hoopers decision making - but if you listen to any of the players he is obviously very respected and sets very high training standards and expectations.

I just think it is one of those decisions that, unless you are inside the squad, it is hard to have an informed decision on.

I think the other valid question in the is - if you strip the captaincy off him, who do you give it too.

IMO any of the other captaincy candidates - Ala'alatoa, Gordon, JOC (James O'Connor) & To'omua - there are genuine questions as to whether they will be starters. The only other candidate off the top of my head might be Slipper - but he’s likely to be off after 60 (assuming he is favoured to start over Bell).

At this rate, if we goto only guaranteed starters it's down to Tupou, Koroibete or Paisami.

 

[TSR]

Well - I’d have Tupou as a clear starter but many, including Rennie, don’t appear to agree. I’d actually say Slipper is the more certain one.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Captaincy I think has really been a boon for Australia this year.
Slipper was a stalwart during his time at the Reds and I don't think anyone would begrudge him the Wallabies job but as always it's tough to name a prop who is very risky due to scrum cards, and they'll probably only play 60 odd min. AAAA has been awesome for the Brumbies but probably can't be considered because Tupou is just too good. I feel like To'omua (or perhaps it's just the Rebels/Wessels) has been very binary in either going for the 3 or going for tries. To contrast that O'Connor has been steering the Reds around nearly flawlessly finding a way to keep his team in the fight when they are on the ropes, but also pushing his lads when they need to be pushed, and calling out his team/players out when they need it, and taking pressure off when they need it by taking it on himself.

I think O'Connor almost has to be at least considered for the Wallabies Captaincy the work he is doing with the Reds... His media interviews etc have been as good as anyone. Also him not being the 'normal' captain for the Reds probably counts for him in that one, so he can really focus in on the Wallabies. I think right now O'Connor has been as good as anyone ever has been for any team in Australia -- perhaps anywhere ever. Personally, I'd have him as the Wallabies Captain right now.

 

[Derpus]

If hes available, what about Philip?

 

[Dctarget]

If hes available, what about Philip?

Don't think he's ever captained, he looks more like the quiet hard worker, let him grow into his position and get used to test rugby first. Also, not guaranteed starter.

This conversation just shows how silly it is to not have Hooper as captain, we have no reasonable alternatives.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Hmm so my wallaby 15 would be at this point:
1. Slipper - lock in - bell off the bench
2. Faingai - but mafi, bpa pushing
3. Tupou - lock in
4. Philips - lock in even if overseas given form last year in tests
5. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)’s still to probably lose but Neville and hosea would be in the mix
6. Valetini but others threatening anstee would be my left field Bolter
7. Hooper - incumbent and can only seeing him losing captaincy this season.
8. Wilson but others definitely threatening such as Samu, Harris and Uru
9. White - lock in - Tate or Gordon off the bench
10. JOC (James O'Connor) - lock in for me and probable captain
11. Koriobete - lock in
12. To’omua - lock in but if they decide Paisami plays 12 not so as latter first choice centre
13. Paisami - lock in but equally lock in for 12 if prefer him there - If that is the case I would say ikatau for 13 with my bolter Perese which is left field but little seen of him he looks one to watch
14. Wright - daugunu / Petaia pushing from the bench
15. Banks - have to agree he is lock at least for first test -

 

[TSR]

I reckon JOC (James O'Connor) has been great, but I won’t be surprised if Lolesio (or possibly Harrison - but Lolesio far more likely IMO) is given more opportunity this year, including potentially a couple of starts.

Edit: by that I mean I won’t be surprised if Rennie forms the opinion that either Lolesio or Harrison are likely to be the best 10 in Australia within 2 yrs and that there isn’t a big difference between he & JOC (James O'Connor) now. As such, it makes sense to at least give him an opportunity or two. Lolesio has better form, but I’m still not going to completely dismiss Harrison.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I reckon JOC (James O'Connor) has been great, but I won’t be surprised if Lolesio (or possibly Harrison - but Lolesio far more likely IMO) is given more opportunity this year, including potentially a couple of starts.

Edit: by that I mean I won’t be surprised if Rennie forms the opinion that either Lolesio or Harrison are likely to be the best 10 in Australia within 2 yrs and that there isn’t a big difference between he & JOC (James O'Connor) now. As such, it makes sense to at least give him an opportunity or two. Lolesio has better form, but I’m still not going to completely dismiss Harrison.

I don’t think either lolesio or Harrison are ready this year to start at 10, and would not want either on the bench. In the squad yes for development but neither test ready and need more time in super rugby to develop their game imo. As long as no injuries it is JOC (James O'Connor) or To’omua starting at 10 and imo risk of To’omua being on the bench given paisami looking more and more first choice centre and probable 12 (unless they decide to play him at 13 and To’omua at 12)

 

[TSR]

I don’t think either lolesio or Harrison are ready this year to start at 10, and would not want either on the bench. In the squad yes for development but neither test ready and need more time in super rugby to develop their game imo. As long as no injuries it is JOC (James O'Connor) or To’omua starting at 10 and imo risk of To’omua being on the bench given paisami looking more and more first choice centre and probable 12 (unless they decide to play him at 13 and To’omua at 12)

Can I ask if you think there is much difference in the level at which both JOC (James O'Connor) and Lolesio are playing at Super level?

My preferred starting line up at this stage would by 10. JOC (James O'Connor) 12. To'omua 13. Paisami - but I personally think there is a big step back in form to Lolesio. Edit: sorry, this was supposed to say there isn’t a big step back

Harrison I can certainly agree would be a big leap of faith - but he is fundamentally a good 10.

 

[Joe Blow]

JOC (James O'Connor) has made a very good case to be the starting 10 and a part of the senior group. Hooper will most likely be captain. Anyone who thinks he will return any less of a player is deluded. Lolesio is a good bench option to cover 10 and 12 and will be given game time to help gain his feet in test rugby, which he failed to do last year. We saw last year that he has a ways to go and Will Harrison has done nothing to suggest he is anything but a lot further away from consideration.
Rennie will pull Rodda into the group as soon as he can.
Uelese put in a good shift on the weekend and I hope he can continue to improve.
There is healthy competition for spots and a lot of talent bouncing around. Rennie will stamp his mark on the side this year and I think they will go very well.

 

[cyclopath]

Captaincy I think has really been a boon for Australia this year.
Slipper was a stalwart during his time at the Reds and I don't think anyone would begrudge him the Wallabies job but as always it's tough to name a prop who is very risky due to scrum cards, and they'll probably only play 60 odd min. AAAA has been awesome for the Brumbies but probably can't be considered because Tupou is just too good. I feel like To'omua (or perhaps it's just the Rebels/Wessels) has been very binary in either going for the 3 or going for tries. To contrast that O'Connor has been steering the Reds around nearly flawlessly finding a way to keep his team in the fight when they are on the ropes, but also pushing his lads when they need to be pushed, and calling out his team/players out when they need it, and taking pressure off when they need it by taking it on himself.

I think O'Connor almost has to be at least considered for the Wallabies Captaincy the work he is doing with the Reds. His media interviews etc have been as good as anyone. Also him not being the 'normal' captain for the Reds probably counts for him in that one, so he can really focus in on the Wallabies. I think right now O'Connor has been as good as anyone ever has been for any team in Australia -- perhaps anywhere ever. Personally, I'd have him as the Wallabies Captain right now.

I think you ought to ease up on the hyperbole generator - you might chafe.

 

[dru]

Hooper will most likely be captain. Anyone who thinks he will return any less of a player is deluded.

Agree on how Hooper will return. Completely disagree that he should be captain. The loose forwards have options all over the park and we don't need a slot locked away by having a captain there.

Rennie should also now have a better idea on where he is going. Who knows, maybe that entails Hooper 7 and c through to RWC. I wouldn't like it, but Rennie would hardly be the first HC to see things this way.

 

[Dctarget]

I was very critical of Brumbies fans touting Simone’s credentials for 12 and still am, IMO he’s a significant step down on anyone else in the squad.

But I’m super impressed with Ikitau. Would not be upset with a Paisami/Ikitau pairing especially if Petaia’s slump continues.

 

[dru]

I was very critical of Brumbies fans touting Simone’s credentials for 12 and still am, IMO he’s a significant step down on anyone else in the squad.

But I’m super impressed with Ikitau. Would not be upset with a Paisami/Ikitau pairing especially if Petaia’s slump continues.

BUT there are plenty expecting 10 JON 12 To'omua. At which point there is no way Ikitau beats Paisami to the 13 jumper.

 

[Dctarget]

BUT there are plenty expecting 10 JON 12 To'omua. At which point there is no way Ikitau beats Paisami to the 13 jumper.

Yeah it’s why I’m not opposed to benching one of JOC (James O'Connor) or To'omua (or both). We probably won’t or shouldn’t at least have both of them at RWC23, so wouldn’t mind developing an alternative combo.

 

[liquor box]

That's nonsense. Just fucking own your provincial bias for god sake. There is nothing wrong with hating Hooper because he's from NSW. It's worse when you blokes cook up a crock of shit to try and hide the fact.

It is not provincial bias, I have often stated that I do not support bringing back players to be Wallabies and that I also do not support the sabbaticals overseas with an automatic return to the Wallabies.

I believe he will be in team, but wonder if he should just waltz back in, especially as captain.

If you want future Wallabies teams to be made up of players who don't play Super Rugby AU and just play in Japan while under a Wallabies contract then good for you, I actually like to see players for my national team every week on TV so I can see who is actually the best option and want to support them for supporting the competition that I support. I don't care which team you play for, I just appreciate that they play here.

 

[hifflepiff]

If you want future Wallabies teams to be made up of players who don't play Super Rugby AU and just play in Japan while under a Wallabies contract then good for you,

If Rugby keeps growing in Japan and the US, more top tier players are going to keep going overseas. At the end of the day money talks.

Personally I can't begrudge Hooper going overseas for a year after giving his best years to perennially underperforming Wobs/Tahs teams. And on top of that agreeing to have his contract cut more than any other player as a result of COVID.