Wallabies 2021

[PhilClinton]

Broader picture - it takes a bit of the joy out of watching the Wallabies when we clearly aren't fielding the most competitive team we can (or any team without their best players, really). Isn't test rugby supposed to be the best from every nation competing? What good is having one of (if not the) best centres in the world if he can't play test rugby? It's a joke and it demeans international rugby.

I'm confused about how upset some people are getting about this. Before the change in the rules these guys weren't even eligible for selection.

Did it take away of the joy of watching the Wallabies when Kerevi bailed last year? Or when Skelton bailed years ago?

I get that Kerevi has been such a difference maker, but he entered into an agreement with Sungoliath based on a particular set of terms. Since RA have now moved the goal posts, they're within their rights to question it.

Imagine if you and your employer agreed that you would work Monday - Friday and suddenly your previous employer said, actually, I need you for Monday's, but your new boss is paying you salary. It wouldn't go down well and they'd probably want to renegotiate the deal.

 

[Derpus]

To be fair, Kerevi has been missing for a long time. Left the club early for the Olympics and hasn't been back. They made him available when they had no obligation to. They are paying his salary. For the sake of keeping the relationship positive, I think its a reasonable decision.

I thought the RC was covered by reg 9?

 

[Derpus]

I'm confused about how upset some people are getting about this. Before the change in the rules these guys weren't even eligible for selection.

Did it take away of the joy of watching the Wallabies when Kerevi bailed last year? Or when Skelton bailed years ago?

I get that Kerevi has been such a difference maker, but he entered into an agreement with Sungoliath based on a particular set of terms. Since RA have now moved the goal posts, they're within their rights to question it.

Imagine if you and your employer agreed that you would work Monday - Friday and suddenly your previous employer said, actually, I need you for Monday's, but your new boss is paying you salary. It wouldn't go down well and they'd probably want to renegotiate the deal.

Yes - categorically. Our performances have plummeted over the last five years and on this years evidence plenty of that can be attributed to unavailability of our best players.

 

[Tomikin]

Yep I know, it really sucks.

But unfortunately that is the state of play for the game that we love here in Australia. These guys simply cannot afford to stay onshore. Gone are the days where playing for your country and being loyal to your team were the first priority when playing any form of football.

Like I pointed out before, lets not forget Kerevi and McMahon opted to leave Australia of their own free will, and at the time forfeited their right to play for the Wallabies.

Sounds like they made that same choice for the European tour as well

 

[PhilClinton]

Yes - categorically. Our performances have plummeted over the last five years and on this years evidence plenty of that can be attributed to unavailability of our best players.

Okay - but is pointing the finger at these overseas clubs really the best response?

Clearly RA can't afford to hang onto these guys. Kerevi made it clear when he left he needs money to support his family and Sungoliath are the ones who are providing that money. He was happy to walk away from the Wallaby jumper and take the money.

I'm definitely not saying I have the answer, but I think it is a bit unfair that people are up in arms that these guys are staying to do the right thing by Sungoliath.

 

[Derpus]

Okay - but is pointing the finger at these overseas clubs really the best response?

Clearly RA can't afford to hang onto these guys. Kerevi made it clear when he left he needs money to support his family and Sungoliath are the ones who are providing that money. He was happy to walk away from the Wallaby jumper and take the money.

I'm definitely not saying I have the answer, but I think it is a bit unfair that people are up in arms that these guys are staying to do the right thing by Sungoliath.

And at World Rugby's limp dick regulations - yes.

I mean, shit, even FIFA can manage proper international windows and there's no arguing with the supremacy of the European club game in kickball.

 

[PhilClinton]

And at World Rugby's limp dick regulations - yes.

I mean, shit, even FIFA can manage proper international windows and there's no arguing with the supremacy of the European club game in kickball.

You've still failed to address the players in your argument.

Australian based players knowingly forfeit their right to play for the Wallabies when they leave for overseas, unless covered by the Giteau rule. I don't believe the new rules are officially in place, so for arguments sake I'm referring to the lay of the land pre-2021.

How do you address that? Is it the Japanese clubs fault that they can offer $200k more per season? Many posters on here turned their back on Kerevi and McMahon when they signed in Japan for the greedy money hunger buggers they are, but now suddenly, the fact they can't play for the Wallabies is a disaster.

 

[Derpus]

You've still failed to address the players in your argument.

Australian based players knowingly forfeit their right to play for the Wallabies when they leave for overseas, unless covered by the Giteau rule. I don't believe the new rules are officially in place, so for arguments sake I'm referring to the lay of the land pre-2021.

How do you address that? Is it the Japanese clubs fault that they can offer $200k more per season? Many posters on here turned their back on Kerevi and McMahon when they signed in Japan for the greedy money hunger buggers they are, but now suddenly, the fact they can't play for the Wallabies is a disaster.

Why would we discuss pre-2021 when that isn't the situation? We opened up our selection policies to specifically include certain players who are still unable to play due to pressure from their club sides.

This being a move which we were forced into to accommodate the trend of more players choosing to play internationally. Which, to be fair, is the same bullshit that Fijians etc have been dealing with since forever.

 

[PhilClinton]

Why would we discuss pre-2021 when that isn't the situation? We opened up our selection policies to specifically include certain players who are still unable to play due to pressure from their club sides.

This being a move which we were forced into to accommodate the trend of more players choosing to play internationally.

Which, to be fair, is the same bullshit that Fijians etc have been dealing with since forever.

Because the 2021 situation is currently just a 'COVID allowance', until officially announced otherwise.

There is nothing stopping RA for turning around in 2022 when things are back to some sense of normal and saying the Giteau rule is back in place.

I wouldn't assume all internationally based players are open slather for selection going forward.

I think we are both on different sides of this and that is fine so I won't keep going at it.

 

[Tah Man]

I'm confused about how upset some people are getting about this. Before the change in the rules these guys weren't even eligible for selection.

Did it take away of the joy of watching the Wallabies when Kerevi bailed last year? Or when Skelton bailed years ago?

I get that Kerevi has been such a difference maker, but he entered into an agreement with Sungoliath based on a particular set of terms. Since RA have now moved the goal posts, they're within their rights to question it.

Imagine if you and your employer agreed that you would work Monday - Friday and suddenly your previous employer said, actually, I need you for Monday's, but your new boss is paying you salary. It wouldn't go down well and they'd probably want to renegotiate the deal.

Because we have been dog shit for the last 4 years without the intl based players. When we got Kerevi back we went on a bit of a run that had started to build a bit of belief in our national side and the game in Australia and we had a team that might actually challenge the likes of England, particularly with the European based players included.

There's no one to be angry at specifically, because like you said Kerevi had entered into an agreement based on a particular set of terms, but surely we are allowed to be disappointed that our team is going to be mediocre again, without Samu, Marika and a decent option at fullback

 

[Derpus]

Because the 2021 situation is currently just a 'COVID allowance', until officially announced otherwise.

There is nothing stopping RA for turning around in 2022 when things are back to some sense of normal and saying the Giteau rule is back in place.

I wouldn't assume all internationally based players are open slather for selection going forward.

I think we are both on different sides of this and that is fine so I won't keep going at it.

Okay - and my point remains. It's a joke that if we want to we still can't select our best players.

It seems somewhat less controversial and also irrelevant at the moment that we can opt to go back to not selecting international players.

FWIW I think that's a pipe dream though. We can choose to be competitive or select our overseas based talent. Not both. The drain isn't going to ease up.

 

[Braveheart81]

Reading between the lines, it would seem that RA wanted to foster a positive relationship with the relevant Japanese clubs and after they've been overly accommodating this year (particularly with Kerevi) by releasing players outside of the Reg 9 windows.

It's disappointing not to have Kerevi now but if they've greased the wheels to make him largely available over the next two test seasons and the RWC then that's the main game.

 

[Derpus]

Imagine if you and your employer agreed that you would work Monday - Friday and suddenly your previous employer said, actually, I need you for Monday's, but your new boss is paying you salary. It wouldn't go down well and they'd probably want to renegotiate the deal.

It shouldn't ever be this dichotomy. Which is my point. Even in the most bloated, corrupt game in the world the decision is never one or the other. As a player you are always guaranteed to be able to play for both your country and your club - almost all of the time (some exceptions, such as AFCON etc and even then African players are released to their countries).

Anyway I'll stop ranting about this horseshit now.

 

[Dctarget]

Just finished watching Skelton's latest game from Sunday to make myself feel better. Still pretty ponderous and slow. Like, amazing with the ball, breaks a tackle or sucks in three defenders every time. He'll be great in Gold off the bench I think, like Tupou has been used. Scored a pick and go try, pretty unstoppable from 2m out. But still quite lazy around the field. Played 80 minutes but by the 60th minute mark he gave up, was always the 3rd to a ruck to place his hand on it or be a blocker never in position to catch a ball. Generally used as the pivot lifter in the lineout, never jumps.

Also, Paia'aua was playing for the opposition, Toulon. He looks much fitter and more imposing than I remember. But still threw two brain dead passes into touch, tries too much without the skill to execute it and got yellow carded for checking someone as they ran through on a chip kick. Much rather Beale.

 

[Brumby Runner]

What is not very apparent and very critical for the Wallabies as we move towards 2023 is the lack of a dominant test fullback.

Do we think Banks or Hodge can play that role in the next couple of years? Or Andrew Kellaway?

Super Rugby becomes pretty critical here.

Banks will be Brumbies fullback and fair enough, although some would like to see Tom Wright there. Personally I don't see him quite at that level.

The Reds will either go back to the man who has been so solid for them (and who I think makes the backline combine better) in Jock Campbell. Or do they throw it to the wind and give Petaia a good run there? A back three of Petaia, Daugunu and Vunivalu is scary fun.

Similarly, do the Rebels toe the Wallaby party line and give whichever of Kellaway or Hodge is deemed the leading candidate?

The Force don't have many options really, but as I've mentioned previously, Byron Raltson was a fullback at school and is an exciting prospect so could be a shot.

Reg, out of those options, I reckon Petaia would be best. He was very impressive with his high ball takes and general solidity at the back last weekend. But, as with most of them, I think he/they need a full Super Rugby season at 15 to learn the position before starting there regularly at test level.

 

[Up the Guts]

I think they probably use Petaia on the wing in a crash ball role now that Kerevi is gone.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Beale to be called up. Shock horror. Cue the rants from BR and a few Qlders.

I'm OK with the Jap player thing. When they were signed neither the players nor the clubs were expecting them to be able to be picked for the Wallabies. Japan is a perfect solution for us going forward with respect to both players taking a sabbatical, and players being signed on big $$$ that we still may want to select in the future. It's important that we look to build the relationship now which involves a bit of give and take for the time being. I also think that from a strategic alliance point of view Japan would be a good partner - while I was watching the games on the weekend I was thinking that NZ are forming theirs with USA and wondered if we are forming ours with Japan. If that's the case we are getting the better deal.

As an aside, I also noticed that Quade wasn't on the plane either, but it sounds like he is just dotting the i's and crossing the t's and is expected to join the squad ASAP.

Leopards and spots, and knickers and knots KOB.

I intend to just ignore his presence while-ever he is in the background training and making up the numbers, or until he either fucks up again (high probability) or loses the Wallabies another game through poor technique or wayward decision making.

 

[A mutterer]

I think they probably use Petaia on the wing in a crash ball role now that Kerevi is gone.

not so sure myself given rennie's comments that they're not confident in his frame lasting a full 80.

i'm not particularly looking forward to beale at fullback as his safety under the high ball and kicking distance will be easily exploitable.

 

[upthereds#!]

I don't really get why Sungoliath are so desperate to have Kerevi back as they still have ages until their season starts.

Surely playing top level teams in Europe is preferable for his development compared to some random pre-season games.

He was injured and missed their Final (which they lost) An injury now/durign tour would impact his Japanese campaign. An injury during Australian based autumn tests and even rugby champs would likely be less damaging to his domestic season.

 

[RugbyReg]

I'm actually excited now to see the impact that Latu, Arnold and Skelton have on this team. If they are as good has is alluded to, then our pack will better Scotland and Wales and it will be a ding dong battle with England. With a dominant pack, and QC (Quade Cooper) still there orchestrating, then it shouldn't matter who plays in the centres.