Wallabies 2021

[Rugbynutter39]

We have not seen McMahon at the highest level since 2017. Hope he still has it. If so he is a good addition but need a gun lineout jumper at 6.
Naisarani in the squad was wasted time unless he intends to return.

Interesting how the policy works as have Duncan in the squad so assume it means you can have lots in the squad (ie more then 2 overseas based players with less then 60 tests) but as long as don’t play more then 2 in your match day 23 or is this a gray area

 

[Tomikin]

McMahon and Cooper had a better winning record than the current crop. We have a tendency to discard our players too early or they leave looking for more money. Look at the Bok squad. It has plenty of 30s, some late 30s, that bring a lot.
We are worried to play Cooper at 33!
He may not quite have the speed and running ability he had as a kid but the top two inches will be much better.

Lets hope Cooper mk2 is Gits mk2 all over again, although coming from European champions and player of the year and Japan second division are probably 2 different things... on that matter what is Gits doing now .. (jk's or am I)

 

[KOB1987]

Interesting how the policy works as have Duncan in the squad so assume it means you can have lots in the squad (ie more then 2 overseas based players with less then 60 tests) but as long as don’t play more then 2 in your match day 23 or is this a gray area

My read on it is there is no cap on the number in either the squad or the match day 23, but that it will be used selectively. so yes, it’s pretty grey.

 

[Joe Blow]

The Ben Darwin analysis about cohesion makes me skeptical on how much benefit signing overseas based players will have

We saw last week with a team jammed full of Brumbies that it does not often work. It has never really worked at test level. Many recent AB sides have had a nucleus of Canterbury players but nowhere near a majority.
In provincial rugby sure, stick with a nucleus of players and allow certain junior members to find their feet. In test rugby? No. Pick your best possible side assuming they are all at a level where they will more easily blend as a unit. They have a lot of experience and will play better with a better quality of player around them.

 

[upthereds#!]

The Ben Darwin analysis about cohesion makes me skeptical on how much benefit signing overseas based players will have

Have to find the right combos to cohese....is that a word? Since when has Mcdermott and Lolesio been a combo, but they have been persisting even though White is there whilst they wait for JOC (James O'Connor) to join his buddy.

Darwin is about specific axis where that combo needs to be. It's not just more reds, or more brumbies. It's positional.

Our halves are the only place where we could realistic combos coming out of Super Rugby. Everywhere else, that cohesion will have to be built throughout the wallabies.
Paisami/Petaia would be the only chance out of the 5 teams so be a wallaby centre combo and the jury is still out on that one.
Not a single back 3 unit could do it.
Only the Brumbies front row and Fainga'a as the best hooker is questionable
No 2nd row combo would be test level.
Tahs backrow would come closest but Vosayaco is doubtful to ever be picked over Wilson or Valetini.

Happy to use the south african and nz lock pairings as example of this. Long time test combos with high success but 0 provincial partnerships.

Let's get the best players available, make combos, then let combos build partnerships over the 12-20 or whatever tests that remain between now and WC. If they can be doing Super Rugby together aswell, that's a bonus.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Have to find the right combos to cohese..is that a word? Since when has Mcdermott and Lolesio been a combo, but they have been persisting even though White is there whilst they wait for JOC (James O'Connor) to join his buddy.

Darwin is about specific axis where that combo needs to be. It's not just more reds, or more brumbies. It's positional.

Our halves are the only place where we could realistic combos coming out of Super Rugby. Everywhere else, that cohesion will have to be built throughout the wallabies.
Paisami/Petaia would be the only chance out of the 5 teams so be a wallaby centre combo and the jury is still out on that one.
Not a single back 3 unit could do it.
Only the Brumbies front row and Fainga'a as the best hooker is questionable
No 2nd row combo would be test level.
Tahs backrow would come closest but Vosayaco is doubtful to ever be picked over Wilson or Valetini.

Happy to use the south african and nz lock pairings as example of this. Long time test combos with high success but 0 provincial partnerships.

Let's get the best players available, make combos, then let combos build partnerships over the 12-20 or whatever tests that remain between now and WC. If they can be doing Super Rugby together aswell, that's a bonus.

I always believe it is the case of select best players available where rules allow for it but I think Ben Darwin’s insights suggest don’t perhaps expect so much from bringing in overseas based players

 

[dru]

I always believe it is the case of select best players available where rules allow for it but I think Ben Darwin’s insights suggest don’t perhaps expect so much from bringing in overseas based players

It's not my read of Darwin. I would pull in the overseas players to max time with the squad to build that continuity.

There is also a sub-issue on holding pairings from Super teams. It implies that the Super coach wants the same thing from the pair as the WB coach does. Almost inevitably, with the huge permutations possible in rugby strategy, there will not be continuity in game intentions anyway.

 

[upthereds#!]

With Sean Mcmahon in the squad, that takes it to 3 people outside the 60. Kerevi, DP and now Mcmahon.

I know they were discussing relaxing the law further, beyond the 2 allowed, but no decision have been made public.

Did Duncan head back to europe, with JOC (James O'Connor) now fit and Quade preferred or are they actually carrying 3 outside the Giteau rule?

 

[Derpus]

With Sean Mcmahon in the squad, that takes it to 3 people outside the 60. Kerevi, DP and now Mcmahon.

I know they were discussing relaxing the law further, beyond the 2 allowed, but no decision have been made public.

Did Duncan head back to europe, with JOC (James O'Connor) now fit and Quade preferred or are they actually carrying 3 outside the Giteau rule?

Im pretty sure they binned the Giteau law. They then added the caveat that it wouldn't be open slather without defining what that means.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Im pretty sure they binned the Giteau law. They then added the caveat that it wouldn't be open slather without defining what that means.

I am ok with relaxing the rules - if we can have Arnold and Skelton back playing I would be open to that. Interesting that all the players selected are from Japan...

 

[KOB1987]

I am ok with relaxing the rules - if we can have Arnold and Skelton back playing I would be open to that. Interesting that all the players selected are from Japan.

I think that's because the Japan players are off season at the moment and back in Oz. European players can only be released during the NH test windows and if they came back would need to do the 2 weeks quarantine.

 

[Braveheart81]

Isi out.

I assume this was a question. Yes, he's been released early.

 

[Braveheart81]

The Ben Darwin analysis about cohesion makes me skeptical on how much benefit signing overseas based players will have

The thing it misses though is when you're comparing players of substantially different abilities.

Likewise, the Wallabies play more than enough tests to create cohesion there. On top of that, the more experienced players are, the quicker they build cohesion.

If Rory Arnold or Will Skelton plays 10 tests a year they will have plenty of cohesion with the other Wallabies.

 

[dru]

I think that's because the Japan players are off season at the moment and back in Oz. European players can only be released during the NH test windows and if they came back would need to do the 2 weeks quarantine.

This. it was a matter of convenience with Rennie wanting to bolster the squad for training. It's how both Quade and Paiaua ended up there.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The thing it misses though is when you're comparing players of substantially different abilities.

Likewise, the Wallabies play more than enough tests to create cohesion there. On top of that, the more experienced players are, the quicker they build cohesion.

If Rory Arnold or Will Skelton plays 10 tests a year they will have plenty of cohesion with the other Wallabies.

So far the evidence supports what you say. What I really liked and agreed with was comments that the strength of Cooper mark 2 was underplaying his hand where one of the weaknesses and my concerns was Cooper mark 1 (especially when at backend of his career) was overplaying his hand which I thought was too high risk and led to lot of inconsistencies in his game.

Cooper talked a lot in lead up about his growth as a player and work put in for this. It was great to see this evidenced in last nights game and may we continue to see it as we all love a great redemption story as we have seen with JOC (James O'Connor) and players come back as better versions of themselves.

 

[Dan54]

So far the evidence supports what you say. What I really liked and agreed with was comments that the strength of Cooper mark 2 was underplaying his hand where one of the weaknesses and my concerns was Cooper mark 1 (especially when at backend of his career) was overplaying his hand which I thought was too high risk and led to lot of inconsistencies in his game.

Cooper talked a lot in lead up about his growth as a player and work put in for this. It was great to see this evidenced in last nights game and may we continue to see it as we all love a great redemption story as we have seen with JOC (James O'Connor) and players come back as better versions of themselves.

Maturity is a very underated commodity isn't it RN??

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Maturity is a very underated commodity isn't it RN??

That and experience - we went from not long ago to very inexperienced backline much more experienced last night which I am sure helping to develop newer wallabies. Ikatau and banks had much better games and suspect the additional experience around them helping them with this.

 

[Dan54]

I will also say, after the Boks wins over Lions, who would have imagined Pollard missing a couple of sitters like he did last night?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Bet Rennie wants to see McMahon in the 23 to see what he offers. Swinton had good and bad moments. Samu continues to perform well off the bench.

 

[Joe Blow]

Maturity is a very underated commodity isn't it RN??

Experience too. It would be nice to have similar at fullback.

That and experience - we went from not long ago to very inexperienced backline much more experienced last night which I am sure helping to develop newer wallabies. Ikatau and banks had much better games and suspect the additional experience around them helping them with this.

JOC (James O'Connor) maybe at 15 to round it off. All of these young guys are maturing quickly and gaining valuable experience as Rennie said post match.