Wallabies 2021

[barbarian]

Given the well documented advances in s&c theory and practice, I cannot believe all 5 franchises are behind the 8 ball in this area.
It's almost like an excuse prepared in advance.

Not to mention the players themselves. Too often we let them off the hook. A recent article talked about Michael Hooper running laps post-training with regularity, why aren't others like this? I'm sure a few are, but seemingly not enough.

Nick Phipps had his faults, but his work ethic was legendary. Think he still holds the beep test records at the Waratahs and/or the Sevens. He wasn't blessed with a huge amount of natural ability but you could never doubt his speed and fitness.

If you're blowing in the back end of a game, you surely don't need to wait for your coach to tell you to shape up. It's a problem you should know how to fix.

 

[RugbyReg]

The fact Timani said it was the hardest ever trained points to the Force being behind too. Acknowledging that impacts just two of them.

 

[Drew]

Good for Cameron Orr but I would have thought Tom Robertson was next cab off the rank as many thought he was unlucky to miss out.

Could be he broke the code of saying he left the Waratahs because he was up against the forwards coach’s son for his position and said so?

 

[Members Section]

I mean more that no country will be willing to do 2 week quarantine to play in front of crowds when they can go elsewhere with crowds and no quarantine.

Isn't the Rugby Championship meant to be soon-ish? August?

Springboks play Los Pumas on the 14th & 21st of august in RSA then Arg fly to nz & play on the 11th & RSA fly here & play at the scg on the 12th.

5 weeks away alot can happen in that time plus our 2 tests v Arg still dont have venues in place let alone with what happens with covid

 

[cyclopath]

The fact Timani said it was the hardest ever trained points to the Force being behind too. Acknowledging that impacts just two of them.

I thought the Oz teams in general looked a fair bit behind the NZ teams in the TT comp in terms of S&C. Nothing new in that, but I think Rennie has a point.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Pretty much the same story year after year, and to be honest, I don't think there was a great improvement in the Wallabies despite the horrendous fitness regime they endured in the Cheika years. Starting to wonder if the strength difference has its root in something else?

 

[cyclopath]

Pretty much the same story year after year, and to be honest, I don't think there was a great improvement in the Wallabies despite the horrendous fitness regime they endured in the Cheika years. Starting to wonder if the strength difference has its root in something else?

Indeed. I suspect the systems have not changed dramatically for years. Kiwi players don't always look bigger but they hit harder. Cheika might have got some of the players "fitter", but I'm not sure it was necessarily useful rugby fitness. Perhaps leaner and better cardio but losing out in impact. I really think Aussie S&C is a few steps behind.

 

[Steak n Weights]

Correct me if i'm wrong but from what I've read, to build aeorbic capacity (cardio), you really need to be doing slow pace long distance. That is the foundation of which you build ur anaerobic systems from. Having better cardio will delay the point that your body starts building lactic acid, causing fatigue. For some reason I feel like most teams aren't incorporating this type of training into their program because it is a bit of a time sink and there are only so many hours in a day (fair work).

Same with muscle mass. The more muscle mass you have, the more strength and power you could potentially develop.

 

[dru]

Correct me if i'm wrong but from what I've read, to build aeorbic capacity (cardio), you really need to be doing slow pace long distance. That is the foundation of which you build ur anaerobic systems from. Having better cardio will delay the point that your body starts building lactic acid, causing fatigue. For some reason I feel like most teams aren't incorporating this type of training into their program because it is a bit of a time sink and there are only so many hours in a day (fair work).

Same with muscle mass. The more muscle mass you have, the more strength and power you could potentially develop.

This maps my understanding though my "knowledge" is decades old now. I'd add that explosive power is actually anaerobic.

The trick for rugby S&C, I would think, is integrating these into a cohesive whole for the needs of rugby.

 

[Steak n Weights]

I thought the Oz teams in general looked a fair bit behind the NZ teams in the TT comp in terms of S&C. Nothing new in that, but I think Rennie has a point.

Another issue that compounds the gap between nz and aus teams is talent. Regardless of what pc culture tells you, some people are born smarter, faster and more powerful than others. Training will only improve on what you were given. In NZ, as rugby is the dominant winter sport, they get the pick of the litter in talent whereas here in aus we are continuously fighting against NRL and AFL for players. One could only imagine if the tom trbojevics and the latrell mitchells wore the gold jersey.

 

[wamberal]

Regardless of what pc culture tells you, some people are born smarter, faster and more powerful than others. .

Nothing to do with PC culture is it? It is just a simple fact. If we picked 100 people at random they all reach different performance targets for just about every attribute imaginable, physical, mental, whatever.

Measuring devices - stopwatches, tape measures, barbells, do not have opinions.

 

[gel]

Interesting to see Rennie echo Cheika's previous comments that players aren't getting proper strength and conditioning from franchises.

How hard can it be? you'd think of all the aspects of rugby development fitness would be the easiest to manage.

You'd think so, wouldn't you.

It's not like there's some kind of all encompassing collective organisation dictating to the employers the maximum time spent in training thereby limiting what the teams can squeeze in throughout the week. I mean if you have something that enforces a standard as a maximum, then you'd end up with a situation where our people get flogged week in, week out by seemingly superior human beings who practice and train under a different arrangement.

Thankfully that's not what happens, so we can be certain we need to look elsewhere for a possible root cause.

 

[dru]

Nothing to do with PC culture is it? It is just a simple fact. If we picked 100 people at random they all reach different performance targets for just about every attribute imaginable, physical, mental, whatever.

Measuring devices - stopwatches, tape measures, barbells, do not have opinions.

Nor is there anything PC involved in sample sizes. Pop'n NZ 5M, Pop'n Aus 25M. Our sample size starts at 500% of NZ.

 

[Tomikin]

I'd suggest game plan and skills and fitness of your team mates effects you way more then just getting fitter... If some fluffybunny keeps dropping the ball and making me sprint for cover tackles all game I'm never going to be fresh..

 

[cyclopath]

Correct me if i'm wrong but from what I've read, to build aeorbic capacity (cardio), you really need to be doing slow pace long distance. That is the foundation of which you build ur anaerobic systems from. Having better cardio will delay the point that your body starts building lactic acid, causing fatigue. For some reason I feel like most teams aren't incorporating this type of training into their program because it is a bit of a time sink and there are only so many hours in a day (fair work).

Same with muscle mass. The more muscle mass you have, the more strength and power you could potentially develop.

If you look at running, for example, running further at a moderate pace (probably more accurately within a particular heart rate range) will add aerobic capacity. But it will get so far. To get further, and increase VO2 Max (and thus overall performance capacity) you need anaerobic sessions too - intervals / sprints / pyramid sessions and whatever. My running times got faster when I mixed it up more, rather than just doing the same distance / same pace pretty much every time.
Not being an expert in building muscle mass per se, there clearly seems to be a different pathway from looking like Adonis or hitting like Hercules.

 

[Steak n Weights]

If you look at running, for example, running further at a moderate pace (probably more accurately within a particular heart rate range) will add aerobic capacity. But it will get so far. To get further, and increase VO2 Max (and thus overall performance capacity) you need anaerobic sessions too - intervals / sprints / pyramid sessions and whatever. My running times got faster when I mixed it up more, rather than just doing the same distance / same pace pretty much every time.
Not being an expert in building muscle mass per se, there clearly seems to be a different pathway from looking like Adonis or hitting like Hercules.

Yeah the anaerobic session are important. If you look at the training schedule of an endurance athlete, during the off season, they are almost exclusively doing slow pace runs (pace at which you can maintain a conversation). Only when they are approaching the season, they start to incorporate tempo and interval runs.

Aerobic capacity is like the the size of your fuel tank and lactate threshold is a percentage at which when crossed, your body starts to accumulate lactic acid faster than it can remove. So doing slow pace high volume will increase the size of your fuel tank. While anaerobic training will increase the threshold.

For example, a person has a lactate threshold (the point at which their legs start to burn and begin tiring) of 75% their max heartrate. After 8 weeks of interval training, their threshold has increased to 78%. On the other hand, someone can jog at 6km/hr while maintaining 70% of their heartrate. After 8 weeks of aerobic training, they can jog at 6.5km/hr while maintaining the same heartrate.

 

[Steak n Weights]

I'd suggest game plan and skills and fitness of your team mates effects you way more then just getting fitter. If some fluffybunny keeps dropping the ball and making me sprint for cover tackles all game I'm never going to be fresh..

Players make more mistakes when they are fatigued. If our players that are getting looked at for the national gig struggle with catch and pass, then we have a very big issue.

 

[liquor box]

Nor is there anything PC involved in sample sizes. Pop'n NZ 5M, Pop'n Aus 25M. Our sample size starts at 500% of NZ.

I wonder what the percentage comparison would be of "ideal rugby bodies", I realise that there is a wide range of bodies on the field at any one time but there seems to be some advantage for certain body size/shapes for specific positions.

 

[mst]

Interesting to see Rennie echo Cheika's previous comments that players aren't getting proper strength and conditioning from franchises.

How hard can it be? you'd think of all the aspects of rugby development fitness would be the easiest to manage.

I always wonder about both the metrics and philosophies behind these comments and they do come across a an excuse. It also make me wonder what they are looking for / at.

Super Rugby franchises will be looking at a longer period to build and maintain fitness across a season. In that is factored recovery time. Fatigue (physical / mental) in a player would impact game game prep, skills coaching etc, so its need to be an on balanced approach to maintaining fitness. Mental health is also a big factor nowadays, especially with COVID, which would impact on players well being and ability to train and recover (physically and mentally). Players are also thinking longevity for career purposes which would come in to it.

In a Wallabies setting I imagine its a little bit of a "disposable" mindset (all about this campaign noting beyond). I would envisage there would be less or different skills coaching (noting these are supposedly the "best" players). Players may have come off a rest period and be coming back up to fitness. For me the Wallabies camp time is akin to a Super Rugby pre-season; no post game recovery / game -prep cycles to worry about. Rennie will also have less concern if a player goes down as well. It just a phone call for him, where for a franchise it a massive headache. Its finding the next potential option and starting with a blank canvass or doing some serious time consuming phone shopping to get injury cover.

Personally I wish the Wallabies coaches would shut up about fitness and get to the point. How are they are going to get the Wallabies to win?

But, its RA and the Wallabies, so I do expect the 80/20% excuse, performance ratio

 

[Tomikin]

Players make more mistakes when they are fatigued. If our players that are getting looked at for the national gig struggle with catch and pass, then we have a very big issue.

Ok kick poorly, take bad options, drop balls.. run at all cost... Fitness helps but it's not the be all and end all.