Wallabies 2020

[Brumbieman]

This show-pony talk is pointless unless the pack is right, but i'm calling it early.

Lolesio will get first crack, and if he's picked i'm certain Simone will be at 12. They have a great combo, Rennie will start them as a pair or not. I don't know if this will happen in either of the two Bledisloe's in NZ, but it'll happen for sure during the RC.

If Petaia is fit, then that is one hell of a midfield. If he isn't, Paisami sounds like the next preferred option but apparently Rennie considers Beiber 3rd choice 13, which I actually love. Even if Petaia is fit, i'd still love to see Beiber at 13 for a year or two.

Mk will 90% be one wing, so the other needs some kicking/distributing ability, so i'm guessing Tom Wright.

 

[Highkicks]

I won't keep arguing about Simone but I think both he and Stewart (to a lesser extent) are exactly what I'd want from a ball playing 12. Not that I actually like that being the foremost skill in a 12.

They both have a longer kicking game, can step in at 10, are happy and often effective at crashing it up and are good in defense. I feel like the other guys, while experienced, fall short in some of those key areas.

To'omua was also untested right up until the very last moment he ran on the field and made his test debut against NZ.

 

[Braveheart81]

He brought him back only to play him at 13 where he couldn't make anywhere near as much impact.

Then only to relegate him to the bench for Petaia half-way through the world cup. The obvious solution was to play O'Conner at 15 with Petaia (or Kuridrani until Petaia's injury healed) at 13 all along! But Cheika bizarrely kept selecting the 34 year-old out of form Beale at 15. It was such a farcically wasted opportunity.

JOC (James O'Connor) got benched for one test for Petaia (the quarter final).

Beale's form did fall away at the RWC. His form prior to that was pretty strong though (which got him the fullback spot ahead of Banks and DHP). He's also only a year older than JOC (James O'Connor).

Your posts would be more convincing if the accuracy of the claims you are making was a bit better.

You make it sound like JOC (James O'Connor) was barely used last year but he was a pretty central player throughout the test season. The fact that he got selected in the first place was a huge shock yet you act like he should have been an obvious starter from day 1 in a position he'd barely played for years.

 

[rodha]

You make it sound like JOC (James O'Connor) was barely used last year but he was a pretty central player throughout the test season. The fact that he got selected in the first place was a huge shock yet you act like he should have been an obvious starter from day 1 in a position he'd barely played for years.

Yes, he should've been 100%.

James O'Conner is a proven test-level fullback. Beale wasn't even remotely close to an international quality fullback (or even Super Rugby standard) in those last 3 years. He never performed his core roles adequately. Even in the Perth test he missed loads of tackles, dropped high-balls and made plenty of knock-ons. He was never able to organise his back-three on defense either. Last year Beale missed more tackles per game than any outside back in the RC alone.

I watched all those matches and JOC (James O'Connor) could've been used far more effectively. In many games he featured predominantly off the ball in defense and very sparingly with the ball. I still believe he should've been used at 15 over Beale or even 14 over Hodge.

Also, In most of those tests Cheika bizarrely pulled JOC (James O'Connor) off shortly after half-time and in the other matches gave him 5 useless minutes off the bench!

 

[Braveheart81]

Also, In most of those tests Cheika bizarrely pulled JOC (James O'Connor) off shortly after half-time and in the other matches gave him 5 useless minutes off the bench!

In the 5 tests he started last year he played 80 minutes 4 times and 68 minutes in the other match.

 

[Highkicks]

Playing O'Connor at 13 did seem a bit odd considering he had lost most of the pace and explosiveness that made him a threat with the ball. In hindsight he probably would have been our best option at 10 last year.

 

[Mr Pilfer]

A lot of people still picking AAA over Tupou. I just think that is such a waste if you only bring him on for 20-30 minutes when the game might be over. Tupou is one of the few world class players we have and needs to be starting.

I also still can't believe Nasairani didn't get picked, I think a back row of 6. Samu 7. Hooper 8. Isi would have been pretty good with Wilson on the Bench.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Chekia just picked on who was his mates.

I agree with BumbleBee that Stewart & Simone are almost exactly who we want at 12 long term. But I really don't think we can start Lolesio game 1 against the AB's. 100% against the Argies maybe the SAs but game 1 in New Zealand even if he'd had a full season of SRAU behind him it'd be a big call to start a young kid who's not been clearly the best flyhalf in the country.

 

[rodha]

Playing O'Connor at 13 did seem a bit odd considering he had lost most of the pace and explosiveness that made him a threat with the ball. In hindsight he probably would have been our best option at 10 last year.

The problem was Cheika's backline was completely fucked due to having to accommodate Beale at 15 (and Hodge at 14).

Just the absolute worst possible option you could select there. Cheika's NSW & Beale bias meant O'Conner wasn't ever considered an option at 15 by Cheika - despite being the best option post-Folau to fill that role, so had to be shifted to 13.

It also limited the bench dynamic hugely.

Beale couldn't catch a high-ball, revolving door on defense, couldn't organise a backline, terrible hands and atrocious kicking skills.

Still after multiple errors per-game Cheika continued to play Beale for the full 80 minutes - costing the team many points due to Beale's poor aerial, kicking, defensive and organisational skills.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

In the 5 tests he started last year he played 80 minutes 4 times and 68 minutes in the other match.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story....

 

[Ignoto]

Playing O'Connor at 13 did seem a bit odd considering he had lost most of the pace and explosiveness that made him a threat with the ball. In hindsight he probably would have been our best option at 10 last year.

It was more, Kerevi needed to play at 12, rather than 13. Chieka was never able to get Kerevi and TK to work. So JOC (James O'Connor) was brought into 13 to act as a '12' with a 13 on his back.

 

[cyclopath]

Is it 2019 again?
FFS.

 

[Highkicks]

I’m not sure what’s going on here anymore.

 

[cyclopath]

OK, if I wasn't clear enough, it aint fucking 2019 anymore, or indeed 2008-2013.
Stay on topic.

 

[Brumby Runner]

How the fuck did I miss all this talk of Simone starting! He's a quality player but perhaps only marginally better than Hamish Stewart. It'd be crazy to start any of the Simone, Lolesio, Ikitau, Harrison. They are quality players but very obviously untested -- starting them against the All-Blacks would be madness. The only real young guns who might have a chance are the guys who have been clearly outstanding during SRAU -- so Philip, McReight, Wilson, Wright (Liam), McDermott, Petaia, Daugunu, & Wright (Tom). These guys were all outstanding during Super Rugby AU -- not the best in there position per se, but all were excellent during SRAU and so could have a chance to start.

Of those guys I'd say Tate is the most likely to start he's been so good at 9 he's almost gotta start. But obviously if Petaia is fit you'd love to have him in your XV. Daugunu has been in scintillating form before stalling a little bit in the Grand Final (likely the the Brumbies dealt with him very well). Obviously any combination of the Reds Backrowers could be in with a look.

I'd expect all of these guys and a lot of the young guys will get a run -- obviously depending on the form of SA & Argy, but I'd expect them to be quite limited. Some of the guys I could see getting game time against them would be Fa’amausili, Johnson-Holmes, Hosea, McReight, Swinton, Valetini, Wilson, Wright, Harrison, Lolesio, Paisami, Simone, Ramm, Wright & Maddocks.

I feel like Rennie would likely rotate up to about 6 of his 'young guns' into those easier games -- and I see little to indicate South Africa or Argentina will be anywhere near there best. Against the Argies you could potentially legitimately start a whole second XV or 'young' XV.

Mostly making a lot of sense here ZC, but why describe Daugunu as stalling in the SRAu final but not acknowledge Tate had the same outcome in that game? If final form was the measure for selection, then Joe Powell has gotta start. He was the outstanding No 9 in that game, and was more than solid all year.

I fully expect Nic White to start the first Bledisloe.

I think there is a good chance that we'll see all of Simmons, Hooper, White, JOC (James O'Connor), To'omua and DHP in the first test, but remember these are the players we were relying on in Bledisloes over the past five years or more, and they failed to deliver. Maybe it was all down to Cheika at the helm, but if they fail again I don't think we'll see much of them (maybe Hooper aside) in subsequent tests under Rennie.

 

[dru]

I won't keep arguing about Simone but I think both he and Stewart (to a lesser extent) are exactly what I'd want from a ball playing 12. Not that I actually like that being the foremost skill in a 12.

They both have a longer kicking game, can step in at 10, are happy and often effective at crashing it up and are good in defense. I feel like the other guys, while experienced, fall short in some of those key areas.

To'omua was also untested right up until the very last moment he ran on the field and made his test debut against NZ.

Finally I have a glimpse of where you are coming from.

I don’t think Simone is a huge leap ahead of Stewart. He may get time but not starting in a Bled’. And with back bench spots numbered, I’d place game time for a possible future 10 as more important than a future 12. With To'omua and JOC (James O'Connor) likely in the 23 there is no need for Simone until we play either Springboks or Pumas.

 

[rodha]

Mostly making a lot of sense here ZC, but why describe Daugunu as stalling in the SRAu final but not acknowledge Tate had the same outcome in that game? If final form was the measure for selection, then Joe Powell has gotta start. He was the outstanding No 9 in that game, and was more than solid all year.

I fully expect Nic White to start the first Bledisloe.

I think there is a good chance that we'll see all of Simmons, Hooper, White, JOC (James O'Connor), To'omua and DHP in the first test, but remember these are the players we were relying on in Bledisloes over the past five years or more, and they failed to deliver. Maybe it was all down to Cheika at the helm, but if they fail again I don't think we'll see much of them (maybe Hooper aside) in subsequent tests under Rennie.

I'll go out on a limb and predict White won't even make the 23.

If you look at Rennie's history of using running, abrasive halfbacks (Kerr-Barlow, Pulu etc..) he's more likely to select Gordon and McDermott.

 

[Zero_Cool]

I think the difference with Tate is he didn't / doesn't really have anyone as hot on his tail as Daugunu perhaps did/does with Tom Wright where except for in defense they are very comparable. At least in terms of stats.

Where as Tate's season was better than anyone else's in his position -- sure maybe if White played the whole season there would be an argument but Gordon wasn't even close -- heck even on the limited sample size White wasn't close for the most part.

 

[Zero_Cool]

As if we didn't all have enough irrational opinions I have deiced to throw a spanner in the works of all of that and give us the ability to throw SOME reason into the mix.

So I've painstakingly created a speadsheet of the Stats from Super Rugby AU for every player to play in the comp. Obviously I had to take the stats from somewhere and unfortunately the easiest for me was from ESPN -- I know they aren't always the most consistent nor the most accurate but they are the easiest.

Without saying too much more here is the link for people to check out. Please be respectful with it and let me know if there are any errors, omissions or whatever. And have fun with it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cu_3-eJ0VSYghHnG2SQxexFV1GPHLPBKPrgYJmVJX48/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Rebels3]

I’d be shocked if White isn’t the no.9 with McDermott on the bench.