Wallabies 2020

[Bobby Sands]

I hope that Lolesio keeps shooting the lights out, and Pasitoa comes back to god's country - or even goes back to his original home (Perth). Would be epic for the game.

Caveat that I am not rushing him and that the Brumbies is a great environment for him to develop (in before the "don't rush him" posts).

 

[TSR]

It is possible to chew gum and fart at the same time. The quality of the kicking is one thing, killing what is pretty much an exhibition game with excessive and ineffective use of the boot is quite another. The Kiwis seem to manage to kick properly, and do not overdo it. We had "forcings back" at times during our two games. That will not bring the crowds back, and it will not win games against good opponents. Giving possession away is just dumb rugby, a lot of the time.

Of course it is - but I think your ignoring a couple of key things -
- generally speaking the Tahs won the kicking duels
- winning the kicking duel was a key component of winning the games
- at the start of the game the Waratahs were playing more expansively, but the Force were racing up to kill off the width. I’m pretty sure if the Tahs just kept doing the same thing they wouldn’t have a whole heap of fans singing their praises because ‘well at least they had a crack’. That would have been dumb rugby right there.

So you might have seen them as excessive & ineffective, but I dare say the coaching staff disagree with you. Could it be better. Absolutely. Could the Tahs have run it a bit more. Without doubt. But they won the game and it didn’t look like they would have when they were trying to play ball with width.

Also, whilst these games are exhibition games to you they are both Wallaby trials and trials for contracts for the players.

With regards to the NZ comparison - is Harrison better than Barrett, Mo’unga, Cruden et al. No. Not close at the moment. But you know who he is better than - his NZ equivalent who he outpointed in u20s last year.

Will he still be in 1,2 of 3 years - fucks me, but maybe you could cut him a bit of slack and rejoice in the fact that he actually guided the team you support to victory.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

If Philip has signed a contract for the following season and is available, I'd definitely pick him...

If we can pick Arnold or potentially Skelton on some kind of new o/s policy than great.

Throw in LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and one or two of the young up and comers... also, potentially someone like Neville if he continues his pre-COVID form.....

No need for Simmons.

Simmons was out of the reckoning b4 those red departures but after his game against the force where he was one of the best players he is back in the reckoning - much to BRs disgust.

 

[fatprop]

Simmons is military medium, great at lineouts, passable for the rest - but you can generally rely on a specific level of an average test lock

In the end he does his core skill really well, so another option has be so much better at the around the field work that we will do work arounds for a functional lineout

And to me it also depends on the hookers picked, we have units who can't throw to save themselves and some who are pretty good

For the former, a decent catcher is helpful

 

[Brumby Runner]

Absolutely I’ll cop that he didn’t play the house down yesterday. I was also waiting for him to flatten up the line and have a crack, because he’s a good ball runner.

But NSW clearly adopted a strategy to kick long and kick early and it won them the game. He was a key part of that.

Yesterday demonstrated his lack of experience and the risk of him at a higher level. He’s certainly going to have to play better then that to challenger for a Wallaby spot - but I maintain your not comparing apples with apples. You should maybe consider that the one game Lolesio didn’t have Simone outside him (but still Powell, TK & Banks from memory) he looked average. Meanwhile, Harrison is playing with a bunch of guys in their first Super rugby year, a second string half and a journey man whose best position is unclear. But look - I’m not going to convince you so I’ll leave it at that.

TSR, I am very hopeful that both Lolesio and Harrison will develop in the manner each of us aspire for them. It can only be good for the game in this country.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Just the one who needs a new Waratahs player to whine about.

Cyclo, these threads are pretty much dominated by opinions from Tahs and Reds supporters. Most of those opinions are closely related to the teams they support. When there are more than a few claiming that Will Harrison is the best No 10 in the SRAu comp, or the likes of Paisami is ahead of Kuridrani for example, then it's time for a Brumbies' fan or two to challenge the idea before it becomes taken as gospel.

In my not so humble opinion, Noah Lolesio, actually to my dismay - don't believe me, check out my posts during the preseason when I was sure he was too small to survive at Super Rugby level - is in front of Harrison, perhaps by a good way, at this stage of their careers. Harrison without doubt has talent and ability. He wouldn't have been the U20s No 10 in a successful campaign last year if he couldn't play quality rugby.

Whether I am right, or it is just a matter of perception as Will is part of an inferior (as in not as good, not shit awful) team, if higher selection honours were available right now for one of them, it should in all conscience go to the player with best form, not the one where fans assert that he would be better in a better team.

I am sorry you think I am whining. I reckon I include good reasons for all of my opinions. Others disagree obviously, but I try to at least back up my viewpoints with some evidence.

Just on the case of Paisami, I think he plays a lot like Solomone Kata at the Brumbies, and perhaps would benefit from a stint on the wing at the Reds once Petaia returns.

 

[eastman]

Just on the case of Paisami, I think he plays a lot like Solomone Kata at the Brumbies, and perhaps would benefit from a stint on the wing at the Reds once Petaia returns.

BR, do you see Kata as long-term wing or someone better suited to the centres who requires some upskilling? I lean towards the latter, and would love to have him running around at 12/13 for the Waratahs.

 

[Up the Guts]

I haven’t seen anyone suggest Paisami is ahead of TK.

 

[John S]

Judging Harrison and all the U20s crop on a game-to-game basis is a bit silly. They are so young and if we set the bar at consistent excellence then we are setting ourselves up for disappointment.

The only one of the U20s who has produced consistent excellence is Harry Wilson. That guy is very good. To still be going hard in the 78th minute (and beyond) was incredibly impressive.

No idea how we manage a backrow of Hooper, Wilson and Naisirani but I feel like we might have to try it at some point.

I think I heard this (or something similar) on a podcast late last week - we can't just expect these younger players to play like players who have been around since Moses played for the Judea 1st XV.

 

[upthereds#!]

Quade, Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), Pocock = - all were that age and judged at the age and performed at that age. But they were freaks. Harrison and some of these others guys aren't freaks.

 

[Up the Guts]

Quade, Beale, JOC (James O'Connor), Pocock = - all were that age and judged at the age and performed at that age. But they were freaks. Harrison and some of these others guys aren't freaks.

I’m not sure the way Beale, JOC (James O'Connor) and Cooper were judged when they were 20 worked that well for them or Australian Rugby.

 

[upthereds#!]

I’m not sure the way Beale, JOC (James O'Connor) and Cooper were judged when they were 20 worked that well for them or Australian Rugby.

Quade - 70 test caps and 134 Super Rugby caps. Super Rugby Championship. Most of those caps achieved prior to Cheikas terrible reign.

Beale - 98 test caps and 156 Super Rugby games - Also key member of winning Super Rugby Championship team

JOC (James O'Connor) - 50 test caps and 77 Super Rugby games - vast majority before the age of 24.

All played huge parts in successful campaigns for Super Rugby team and country. All had a LOT more success in their times in Super Rugby and wallabies then the last few years.

They were great players. Dickheads yes - but great players with a lot of success which worked well for them and for Australian Rugby.

 

[wamberal]

Beale was being touted when he was 15 or so at school.

 

[BundyBear]

Its time for us to move on from Beale and his generation. We need to build from the floor boards up.

 

[Up the Guts]

Quade - 70 test caps and 134 Super Rugby caps. Super Rugby Championship. Most of those caps achieved prior to Cheikas terrible reign.

Beale - 98 test caps and 156 Super Rugby games - Also key member of winning Super Rugby Championship team

JOC (James O'Connor) - 50 test caps and 77 Super Rugby games - vast majority before the age of 24.

All played huge parts in successful campaigns for Super Rugby team and country. All had a LOT more success in their times in Super Rugby and wallabies then the last few years.

They were great players. Dickheads yes - but great players with a lot of success which worked well for them and for Australian Rugby.

I agree they were good players but I don’t think they hit their potential at least in part because of the hype and pressure placed on them at a young age.

I think we’re doing it better this time around. Harry Wilson was arguably the form backrower of the comp before the season fell apart and, though I haven’t seen him have a bad game yet, in the games where he hasn’t been able to make multiple linebreaks and throw miracle offloads people have been generally positive about his performance rather than saying ‘Wilson wasn’t nearly as good tonight.’

 

[Wilson]

Quade, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale and Pocock all had a hell of alot more experience around them than most of the young guys coming through right now. Allowed them to step up without the pressure of having to lead/set the standard.

 

[Dctarget]

Quade, JOC (James O'Connor), Beale and Pocock all had a hell of alot more experience around them than most of the young guys coming through right now. Allowed them to step up without the pressure of having to lead/set the standard.

Is there any pressure at the moment? Doesn't feel like it. Seems like the ideal situation for some young'ens to cut their teeth before being thrown to the wolves.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Of course it is - but I think your ignoring a couple of key things -
- generally speaking the Tahs won the kicking duels
- winning the kicking duel was a key component of winning the games
- at the start of the game the Waratahs were playing more expansively, but the Force were racing up to kill off the width. I’m pretty sure if the Tahs just kept doing the same thing they wouldn’t have a whole heap of fans singing their praises because ‘well at least they had a crack’. That would have been dumb rugby right there.



So you might have seen them as excessive & ineffective, but I dare say the coaching staff disagree with you. Could it be better. Absolutely. Could the Tahs have run it a bit more. Without doubt. But they won the game and it didn’t look like they would have when they were trying to play ball with width.

Also, whilst these games are exhibition games to you they are both Wallaby trials and trials for contracts for the players.

With regards to the NZ comparison - is Harrison better than Barrett, Mo’unga, Cruden et al. No. Not close at the moment. But you know who he is better than - his NZ equivalent who he outpointed in u20s last year.

Will he still be in 1,2 of 3 years - fucks me, but maybe you could cut him a bit of slack and rejoice in the fact that he actually guided the team you support to victory.

Seriously people need to look at the trajectory for the youngsters and if people can’t see how over the last 12 months players like Walton, Harrison, Bell, Wilson, Noah etc have improved then they are judging unfairly. They are not the finished product but if they keep improving at the current rate you would have to be blind to not see the huge potential. I also wish people could cut the youngsters a little more slack.

 

[Trevor Iger]

https://www.insidefeed.com.au/post/world-cup-2023-there-is-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel

Thoughts?

 

[upthereds#!]

https://www.insidefeed.com.au/post/world-cup-2023-there-is-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel

Thoughts?

2023 - no giteau rule
1. Sio 2. Uelese 3. Thor
4. Rodda 5. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
6. Mcmahon 8. Wilson 7. Mcreight
9. Mcdermott 10. Harrison 11. Hodge 12. Kerevi 13. Petaia 14. Koroibete 15. Banks
16. Fainga'a 17. Bell 18. Hoopert 19. Naisarani 20. Dempsey 21. Mcdonald 22. Lolesio 23. Nawaqanitawase

I think that's ..pretty crap.

Prop: Hoopert will become the reserve THP over Ala'alatoa(29)? Guys like Faamasuili, Tauakipulu and Nonggoor don't get a look in, in 3 years over an average LOOSEHEAD prop?
Lock: No reserve lock? No room for of Coleman(31)? Arnold(33)? Skelton(31)? - No chance for Hockings or Blyth or Hosea or Frost or Swain?
Backrow: Dempsey gets on over Valetini? Wright? Hooper?
Halfback - Thinking that White won't be around in 2023 is misguided. They will need and have several experienced players around the 30-33 yr old mark
Flyhalf - maybe ok - But expect To'omua and/or JOC (James O'Connor) to be in the squad.
Centre - fine
Outside Back - Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) won't amount to much I fear.

Without changing the starting team (which hurts) I think our finishers in 2023 would look more like this

16. Latu 17. Bell 18. Ala'alatoa 19. Skelton 20. Wright 21. White 22. JOC (James O'Connor) 23. Vunivalu