Wallabies 2020

[Zero_Cool]

I think it's a bit early to be '13 certifying' Ikitau, he's below Paisami on the depth chart.

 

[RoffsChoice]

Naaaaah. Paisami was fine for the Reds, but he has less than 10 games of playing time in the NRC and has been fine, but nothing special. I'll also say that the defensive collapse at the start of the second half notibly included his failure to defend his channel.

Watch Ikitau in the NRC. Attacking play always looks easy at that level because the competition isn't up to Super standard, but his defensive positioning and decision making has been at Super Level for about two years, and he's got about 18 games under his belt. Definitely the guy for the future, and also the third best guy now.

 

[Up the Guts]

Naaaaah. Paisami was fine for the Reds, but he has less than 10 games of playing time in the NRC and has been fine, but nothing special. I'll also say that the defensive collapse at the start of the second half notibly included his failure to defend his channel.

Watch Ikitau in the NRC. Attacking play always looks easy at that level because the competition isn't up to Super standard, but his defensive positioning and decision making has been at Super Level for about two years, and he's got about 18 games under his belt. Definitely the guy for the future, and also the third best guy now.

I don’t doubt Ikitau is a good player but saying Paisami was just fine is pretty unfair. He was pretty close to best on ground on Sunday and most pundits had him as the best back on the field of both sides. If he continues to perform like that he’ll be close to the Wallabies setup.

 

[eastman]

So Ikitau is now the third best outside centre in the country after playing a total of 9 minutes Super rugby?

 

[RoffsChoice]

So Ikitau is now the third best outside centre in the country after playing a total of 9 minutes Super rugby?

Come on mate, 170 minutes, let's be accurate with our shittalk. Compare to 92 for Paisami if you'd like to go on to say "but starting minutes in Argentina!".

Also yes, he's the third best. Because he can defend his channel and make his tackles, and then he makes runs and releases supporting runners as gravy on top.

I don’t doubt Ikitau is a good player but saying Paisami was just fine is pretty unfair. He was pretty close to best on ground on Sunday and most pundits had him as the best back on the field of both sides. If he continues to perform like that he’ll be close to the Wallabies setup.

By how you should judge a 13, I'd definitely say fine. 6/6 tackles is good, definitely need your 13 making tackles, but being a good tackler =/= being a good defender. He also vacated the channels far too often and left his winger and fullback exposed to overlaps. He made some good runs but that's the gravy, and we shouldn't be talking about Wallaby contention for a guy who's meat and potatoes aren't established. He has these same problems at NRC level, they remain at Super level, I'd be terrified if he was the guy at Test level.

 

[Up the Guts]

Come on mate, 170 minutes, let's be accurate with our shittalk.

Also yes, he's the third best. Because he can defend his channel and make his tackles, and then he makes runs and releases supporting runners as gravy on top.



By how you should judge a 13, I'd definitely say fine. 6/6 tackles is good, definitely need your 13 making tackles, but being a good tackler =/= being a good defender. He also vacated the channels far too often and left his winger and fullback exposed to overlaps. He made some good runs but that's the gravy, and we shouldn't be talking about Wallaby contention for a guy who's meat and potatoes aren't established. He has these same problems at NRC level, they remain at Super level, I'd be terrified if he was the guy at Test level.

He made some very good reads as well, midway through the first half he smashes a guy who had gotten on his outside and there’s a turnover a few phases later. He could have defended much, much worse than 6/6.

Pretty denigrating to call his running game “gravy”. If, as seems likely, we’re playing with more of a distributor at 12 like To'omua or JOC (James O'Connor) we’re going to need our 13 to make important carries. Paisami was excellent in that respect last weekend.

I don’t think it would be ideal if either Paisami or Ikitau made their debut at 13 against the ABs this year but I don’t think you can say that Ikitau is clearly the third best 13 in the country given the recent form of Paisami.

 

[RoffsChoice]

I'll invoke rule 10 and agree to disagree. I think it's really clear.

 

[upthereds#!]

Petaia is a natural 13 and should definitely play there. Only two other guys in Aussie rugby have as much defensive awareness in the 13 channel.

However, this is the risk with Petaia. We're trading a lot on his potential, and, while injuries shouldn't hurt his cognative abilities, a 13 needs to trust their shoulder if they're going to be making split-second calls about rushing and hitting someone or shepherding them towards the winger or the touchline.

If Kuridrani goes down now, Wallabies defensive ability is fucked.

Have we really seen enough of Petaia at 13 at a professional level to say categorically he has the leading or co-leading defensive awareness in the 13 channel?

 

[upthereds#!]

If anyone, it'd be someone like English who could come into contention (though would make more sense as a Conrad Smith style outside of Kerevi).

Expect to see To'omua/JOC (James O'Connor)/TK as 10/12/13 with Hodge on the bench as cover for both 12 and 13 but most liekyl a wing starter (though would prefer to see a smokey like Wright or recently signed Daugunu)

Reckon a 6/2 split on the bench

9. Powell 10. To'omua 11. Koroibete 12. JOC (James O'Connor) 13. TK 14. Hodge 15. DHP

22. Louwrens 23. Beale

 

[RoffsChoice]

More than 20 games of being brilliant is worth acknowledgement. He's brilliant at the core duties of the role, and then he does all the extras on top. If Kuridrani wasn't so damn good at his role, Petaia would be the Wallaby 13.

 

[Derpus]

If Rennie is as good as they say he won't be fucking around with To'omua at 10. JOC (James O'Connor) might be a pretty passable stand-in, but i'm still hopeful he goes with one of the young guys or conversely that one of the young guys demands selection. Currently looking most likely to be Lolesio.

I suppose it would be a risk, but one worth taking. We won't win more than 50% of our games with a centre at 10.

Edit: he'll also pick TK because TK is one of the best centers in the world and only missed out on more matches last year because we had to accommodate Kerevi's inability to distribute.

 

[Up the Guts]

If anyone, it'd be someone like English who could come into contention (though would make more sense as a Conrad Smith style outside of Kerevi).

Expect to see To'omua/JOC (James O'Connor)/TK as 10/12/13 with Hodge on the bench as cover for both 12 and 13 but most liekyl a wing starter (though would prefer to see a smokey like Wright or recently signed Daugunu)

Reckon a 6/2 split on the bench

9. Powell 10. To'omua 11. Koroibete 12. JOC (James O'Connor) 13. TK 14. Hodge 15. DHP

22. Louwrens 23. Beale

Early call on Louwrens isn’t it? He played well on Friday but surely McDermott and Powell are ahead of him. I assume White is also available again this year. Should be some healthy competition at 9.

 

[upthereds#!]

More than 20 games of being brilliant is worth acknowledgement. He's brilliant at the core duties of the role, and then he does all the extras on top. If Kuridrani wasn't so damn good at his role, Petaia would be the Wallaby 13.

Petaia has only played 12 professional games, and mostly not at 13.

 

[upthereds#!]

Early call on Louwrens isn’t it? He played well on Friday but surely McDermott and Powell are ahead of him. I assume White is also available again this year. Should be some healthy competition at 9.

I hope White is picked as we need at least 1/3 halfbacks experienced. Though Rennie said he'd prefer picking locally so for the July series maybe we see locals and for Rugby Championships they bring back some foreign based backup like White.

Powell and Mcdermott are normally the next ones for me, but I always liked Louwrens at the Force and he still has big biceps which is irrelevant but oh well.

 

[cyclopath]

Bloody hell. As good as Petaia is, and probably will be, the poor bugger is facing 5-6 months out with a shoulder re-con and rehab.
So maybe talk about who is realistic as an option.
Personally, it beggars belief that in this situation, people would look at a 2-odd game newbie over a seasoned performer like Kuridrani as the front-runner. Of course, plenty of Super rugby to go for that to change. But currently, if a team had to be picked tomorrow, I'd be amazed if Kuridrani was not inked in.

 

[Zero_Cool]

Yeah, I don't see To'omua being a genuine 10 option, he's brilliant if you need injury cover in a match or something, but it's becoming more and more obvious that he's not a flyhalf.

I'd say we'd fare more likely to see 9 Powell/McDermott/Gordon, 10 JO'C, 12 To'omua, but I'm skeptical To'omua will actually make the starting XV. I'd like a look at some of the other guys like Simone, or Stewart; even Meakes at 12.

From what I've heard Rennie will be picking based primarily on CURRENT Super Rugby form not past history. To'omua will insist on continuing to play 10 for the Rebs, and he won't perform well even if they can find some form.

 

[Up the Guts]

Bloody hell. As good as Petaia is, and probably will be, the poor bugger is facing 5-6 months out with a shoulder re-con and rehab.
So maybe talk about who is realistic as an option.
Personally, it beggars belief that in this situation, people would look at a 2-odd game newbie over a seasoned performer like Kuridrani as the front-runner. Of course, plenty of Super rugby to go for that to change. But currently, if a team had to be picked tomorrow, I'd be amazed if Kuridrani was not inked in.

I think most of the focus, perhaps implicitly, was about what happens should TK go down.

 

[Derpus]

I think most of the focus, perhaps implicitly, was about what happens should TK go down.

Wouldn't the next cab off the rank be JOC (James O'Connor) - last years first choice?

 

[Up the Guts]

Wouldn't the next cab off the rank be JOC (James O'Connor) - last years first choice?

The only problem is he might be tied up at 10.

 

[dru]

The only problem is he might be tied up at 10.

Look, I'm loving what JOC (James O'Connor) is doing at the Reds including at 10, but honest. If JOC (James O'Connor) is 10 there is either a very weird performance gestalt leap happening, or it is a sad state of affairs in Aus.

You have to take one of the new guys with him/To'omua, surely.