Wallabies 2020

[Viking]

Listening to the most recent rugby ruckus, Turinui really, really rates Maddocks. But only at 15, he thinks he's our answer to fullback going forward and is wasted on the wing and not a flyhalf. He also thinks Banks needs to stay on the wing and a back three next year of 11. Koroibete 14. Banks 15. Maddocks would make him happy.

Sounds good in theory.

This was a great podcast too. I encourage everyone to have a listen!

 

[Uh huh]

Can we put together a "Give Greg Martin an aneurysm XV"?

1. Harrison Lloyd
2.
3.
4.
5. Will Harris
6. Harry Wilson
7. Liam Wright
8. Fraser McReight
9. Nic White
10. Will Harrison
11.
12.
13.
14. Tom Wright
15.

EDIT: Coached by Jake White obviously.

 

[RedsHappy]

There's an argument that the review was mainly done last season, and we worked out our ideal coaching structure/candidates.

Given the situation at the time it was agreed to transition over to that model where possible, before going full rebuild after the RWC.

Now in that review it seems they worked out Rennie was the man. Maybe because of his abilities, maybe because he fits the structure, maybe because he's all we can afford, maybe he's mates with Scott Johnson - who knows.

I'd certainly be a bit frustrated if they announced him before the end of the Cup, though. They have an obligation to do their due diligence and kick the tyres on Joseph, Schmidt, Cotter, Jones, hell even Rassie Erasmus. Why not?

The other thing to watch is the choice of assistant coaches. Scott Wisemantl is highly regarded, and I'd hope we're moving heaven and earth to get him back. Same goes for Matt Taylor.

So maybe we've got a plan we've carefully crafted over the last year which we're now able to enact. That's a generous way to view it. The less generous way is that we've gone from the Michael Cheika show to the Scott Johnson show - a bloke who has won even less than what Cheika has.

But if we announce Rennie/Wisemantl/Taylor then I can't say I'll be too disappointed. I'd wonder if we'd missed an opportunity though.
.

That may well be the case, that what will soon unfold was decided in late 2018 and into 2019 well before the RWC. Remarkably, the SMH online is reporting strongly that RA/Wallaby staff have already been told that Rennie is to arrive as Wallaby HC (which if true is btw something of a farce in itself given the RA CEO is running around saying no Wallaby HC decision is made and the matter is still under review).

The problem though, this perhaps being the case, is that we have zero visibility re:

- how was this decision made?​

​

- what decision processes were used?​

​

- what selection criteria were used?​

​

- what there or was there not a genuine global search for the best HC talent available?​

​

- why select from candidate HCs in early 2019 when clearly many of the best Test HCs would only get into serious discussion re role changes post RWC?​

If we had an NZ-like set of HCs to choose from and/or our past decade + of choosing Wallaby HCs displayed excellent ARU/RA judgement by dint of the success and progress so created, then we could be more casual re the need for transparency re the above procedural questions. However, if in fact Rennie is already appointed it looks like we may never have answers to these questions, there will be zero transparency and clarity regarding how and why RA has made a vastly important and strategic decision. Hence we will not know if there was a sound and considered basis for the decision so made.

The stakes for getting the entire Wallaby coaching team right, or wrong, have never been higher.

it's obvious that another 4 year rolling set of mediocre (or worse) Wallaby outcomes will be not bad, but will be disastrous, for Australian rugby. A 15 year long cycle as it thus would be of ordinariness and low competence for fans, sponsors and media payers. Whomever is to blame, no elite sporting code can afford that length of sustained decline in all of income, prestige and credibility and still hope to prosper out the other side.

 

[Try-ranosaurus Rex]

Can we put together a "Give Greg Martin an aneurysm XV"?

Mark Nawaqanitawase has a surname to give anyone an aneurysm

 

[Tex]

Can we put together a "Give Greg Martin an aneurysm XV"?

1. Harrison Lloyd
2.
3.
4.
5. Will Harris
6. Harry Wilson
7. Liam Wright
8. Fraser McReight
9. Nic White
10. Will Harrison
11.
12.
13.
14. Tom Wright
15.

EDIT: Coached by Jake White obviously.

Surely it's just the Waratahs of 2014?

 

[KOB1987]

Listening to the most recent rugby ruckus, Turinui really, really rates Maddocks. But only at 15, he thinks he's our answer to fullback going forward and is wasted on the wing and not a flyhalf. He also thinks Banks needs to stay on the wing and a back three next year of 11. Koroibete 14. Banks 15. Maddocks would make him happy.

Sounds good in theory.

He also pointed out the problem with that is that Maddocks won't be fullback at the Rebels so needs to go somewhere where he will be. Also that he may concentrate on the Olympics next year. So to the Tahs in 2021?

 

[Lost]

That may well be the case, that what will soon unfold was decided in late 2018 and into 2019 well before the RWC. Remarkably, the SMH online is reporting strongly that RA/Wallaby staff have already been told that Rennie is to arrive as Wallaby HC (which if true is btw something of a farce in itself given the RA CEO is running around saying no Wallaby HC decision is made and the matter is still under review).

The problem though, this perhaps being the case, is that we have zero visibility re:

- how was this decision made?​

​

- what decision processes were used?​

​

- what selection criteria were used?​

​

- what there or was there not a genuine global search for the best HC talent available?​

​

- why select from candidate HCs in early 2019 when clearly many of the best Test HCs would only get into serious discussion re role changes post RWC?​

If we had an NZ-like set of HCs to choose from and/or our past decade + of choosing Wallaby HCs displayed excellent ARU/RA judgement by dint of the success and progress so created, then we could be more casual re the need for transparency re the above procedural questions. However, if in fact Rennie is already appointed it looks like we may never have answers to these questions, there will be zero transparency and clarity regarding how and why RA has made a vastly important and strategic decision. Hence we will not know if there was a sound and considered basis for the decision so made.

The stakes for getting the entire Wallaby coaching team right, or wrong, have never been higher.

it's obvious that another 4 year rolling set of mediocre (or worse) Wallaby outcomes will be not bad, but will be disastrous, for Australian rugby. A 15 year long cycle as it thus would be of ordinariness and low competence for fans, sponsors and media payers. Whomever is to blame, no elite sporting code can afford that length of sustained decline in all of income, prestige and credibility and still hope to prosper out the other side.

The criteria required by Castle were

No Cheika
No ongoing noise
A buffer between results, coaching team and CEO
Credible coach to be managed by DOR preferably a kiwi prepared to work under the above who will never be a candidate for the one job all Kiwi coaches want.
A saving in salaries

Nailed all of them so far, some have been in place it would appear for 6-12 months at least

 

[Rob42]

...
The stakes for getting the entire Wallaby coaching team right, or wrong, have never been higher.

...

I know everyone wants to catastrophise right now, but perhaps the choice of Wallaby HC and assistants isn't the most important thing right now. Perhaps the only way for us to actually improve is to build the foundation, and that's more important right now. We have some great young talent filling one end of the pipeline, I think the most critical roles in Australian rugby for the next 3-4 years will be the coaches below the Wallaby level - Super rugby, NRC, rep teams, etc - to bring this talent up to a world-class level.

If we place all our hopes in the next Wallaby coach being the Messiah, we're going to be disappointed. Again.

Of course, it would be great if the Wallabies could better utilise the talent that's right there now. So yes, I'd also like a great Wallabies coach.

 

[Joe Blow]

Your kidding yourself if you think every new Test player is going to have a debut like Petaia. In comparison Banks debut was probably better then half the current wallabies debuts.

It's not exactly like he was a Jessie Mogg and way out of his depth.

Banks was far from shit.

He was a bit shit in test rugby. Certainly not good enough to get picked ahead of Hodge and DHP.

 

[Viking]

He was a bit shit in test rugby. Certainly not good enough to get picked ahead of Hodge and DHP.

As a winger yes. But at fullback DHP and Beale just edged him.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Can we put together a "Give Greg Martin an aneurysm XV"?

1. Harrison Lloyd
2.
3.
4.
5. Will Harris
6. Harry Wilson
7. Liam Wright
8. Fraser McReight
9. Nic White
10. Will Harrison
11.
12.
13.
14. Tom Wright
15.

EDIT: Coached by Jake White obviously.

Assisted by Googy Harrison.

 

[RugbyReg]

Harrys Hoopert and Hockings may get a gig too?

 

[Braveheart81]

Harry Johnson-Holmes is surely a chance and Harrison Orr as a bolter.

Mike Harris will also be seeking a new contract in Australia.

 

[Derpus]

Your kidding yourself if you think every new Test player is going to have a debut like Petaia. In comparison Banks debut was probably better then half the current wallabies debuts.

It's not exactly like he was a Jessie Mogg and way out of his depth.

Banks was far from shit.

Why tho? It's not like Petaia was amazing. He was competent and did a few good things. I don't think this would be an unreasonable expectation for a supposedly test level player.

 

[Viking]

Why tho? It's not like Petaia was amazing. He was competent and did a few good things. I don't think this would be an unreasonable expectation for a supposedly test level player.

Competent and did a few good things... kind of sounds likes Bank's Boks game...

Anyways moving on. Agree to disagree there.

 

[RedsHappy]

I know everyone wants to catastrophise right now, but perhaps the choice of Wallaby HC and assistants isn't the most important thing right now. Perhaps the only way for us to actually improve is to build the foundation, and that's more important right now. We have some great young talent filling one end of the pipeline, I think the most critical roles in Australian rugby for the next 3-4 years will be the coaches below the Wallaby level - Super rugby, NRC, rep teams, etc - to bring this talent up to a world-class level.

If we place all our hopes in the next Wallaby coach being the Messiah, we're going to be disappointed. Again.

Of course, it would be great if the Wallabies could better utilise the talent that's right there now. So yes, I'd also like a great Wallabies coach.

Look, yeah, there's many factors affecting Australian rugby's destiny over the next 4 years, of course, agree. Totally agree, for example, that player skill development and technical coaching from the grassroots up needs major revitalisation and attention. We have system-wide, not just Wallaby, challenges.

However:

- Direct and indirect income from Wallabies Tests is critical to the financial viability of RA and then RA's system-wide downline investment from this income into Super, grassroots, 7s, local amateur coaching, etc.......this will become relatively even more so if 2021+ income from Super Rugby media deals to RA fall markedly as is widely anticipated to occur
- This income over time correlates with fan, sponsor and media interest in Wallaby performance and sustained win-rates and the relatively predictability of team excellence (or the opposite)
- This income line and Wallaby Test attendance is in decline
- There will come a negative inflection point where fan and media disillusionment may not be recoverable. General media interest in the Wallabies is in decline and much of it today is negative or dismissive
- Good schoolboy players are going to other codes and more good Australian rugby players are heading overseas for higher incomes, this potentially building vicious not virtuous circles wrt Wallaby player capability and depth locally

Summary: Wallaby-land's standard of excellence and level of stakeholder engagement is of huge importance to the financial and commercial viability of Australian rugby. Like.it.or.not. And then, on top, it is unarguable that very high quality elite rugby coaching makes a major contribution to positive rugby Test performance, viz, J Joesph and Japan, E Jones and England, J Schmidt and Ireland.

 

[neilc]

Dave Rennie is a very good coach of skills and has a background of developing players through age group and Super Rugby. No motivational rev ups, just improve the core skills. He is a very good choice after what we have had.

 

[Bobby Sands]

We can probably assume Rennie was appointed when Scott Johnson was, as well as Tattsy.

Personally I assumed this & im ok with it.

Independent reviews are almost always self-serving, self-licking ice-creams.

 

[upthereds#!]

It we have Rennie and Taylor

Do you think we can get/afford Wisemantel (Attack) and a decent forwards coach?

 

[Brumby Runner]

OK, I'm going to go out on a limb ans assume a few of the up and coming stars around the place will step up to the Wallabies by July next year.

1 Scott Sio
2 Folau Fainga'a
3 Allan Ala'alatoa
4 Izaac Rodda
5 Lukhan Salakai-Loto
6 Rob Valetini
7 Michael Hooper
8 Isi Naisarani
9 Joe Powell
10 Andrew Deegan
11 Marika Koroibete
12 Matt To'omua
13 Tevita Kuridrani
14 Jordan Petaia
15 Tom Banks

16 Jordan Uelese
17 Harry Johnson-Holmes/Tom Robertson
18 Taniela Tupou
19 Darcy Swain
20 Pete Samu
21 Tate McDermott
22 Irae Simone
23 Mark Nawaqanitawase