Wallabies 2020

[Lorenzo]

or not even try, by the looks of it

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Domestic Australian Caps could come into it, minimum Super Rugby + NRC Caps perhaps? At least something to show you've done your time in Australian rugby.

On the other hand you have guys like Brock James that couldn't get a gig in Australian domestic rugby and turned out to be a handy pro player in France. Not sure if you could ever have a system to grab those guys.

Is this actually ever an issue? Brock James was never going to play for the Wallabies.

I love it when league players go to Japan or France. If they are any good after a season or so we can pay them to come back. Let them develop and see if they are going to be any good. Then we just pay them what they are worth at the time. Gasnier was a good example of this. Went to Stade Francais didnt really chop up. We had players in his position so he just went back to league but we had a chance to see what he was like first.

 

[barbarian]

What I really like about it is that it prevents us from overpaying for people. Maybe we'd have more genuine depth if Beale and Folau weren't getting paid the salary of 3 good players each?
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Yes but like it or not they are recognisable players that give general sports fans a reason to tune in.

People like watching Kurley Beale. As much as Mark Nawaqanitawase might excite some of us nerds on here, he's not getting people through the gate like a Beale or a Hooper or a Koroibete or even a Karmichael Hunt.

If we were giving out salaries purely on playing ability then yes we'd have a more equitable system. But that's not how our market operates..
.

 

[Lorenzo]

Yes but like it or not they are recognisable players that give general sports fans a reason to tune in.

People like watching Kurley Beale. As much as Mark Nawaqanitawase might excite some of us nerds on here, he's not getting people through the gate like a Beale or a Hooper or a Koroibete or even a Karmichael Hunt.

If we were giving out salaries purely on playing ability then yes we'd have a more equitable system. But that's not how our market operates..
.

And how is that gate going with the current system? Has Beale's return correlated with an uptick in tahs crowds or tv audiences?

I'd wager that Wallabies success will improve provincial crowds. I'm not convinced that a mediocre Tahs side with Folau or Beale or Hooper is a materially better draw than a mediocre tahs side without them.

 

[Uh huh]

Yes but like it or not they are recognisable players that give general sports fans a reason to tune in.

People like watching Kurley Beale. As much as Mark Nawaqanitawase might excite some of us nerds on here, he's not getting people through the gate like a Beale or a Hooper or a Koroibete or even a Karmichael Hunt.

If we were giving out salaries purely on playing ability then yes we'd have a more equitable system. But that's not how our market operates..
.

I agree with Barbarian; capitalism ruins sport.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I reckon opening up selection to anyone is inevitable and positive.

For one thing, it would increase the number of test eligible Australians playing legit pro rugby. There are 92 (4 * 23) match day spots in Super Rugby. If a bunch of players go OS because the selection criteria constraint was holding them back, then their old Super Rugby spots are up for grabs (for the next best guys, guys in NRC or whatever). For mine, that is a good thing. We now have more eligible players playing pro rugby. We go on about lack of depth, but we only have 92 match day spots. And the national side needs 23. That's not a great ratio. England has 12 top tier sides. France 14. Saffas will pick from anywhere. NZ has 5 plus the NPC, which is basically Super Rugby standard anyway. Wales have a complicated system that is a bit of a hybrid.

It would also take some pressure off RA's finances.

At least when it comes to Europe, it might actually benefit some of our guys to play in the NH leagues so they can broaden their rugby experiences a bit.

At what point does Ben Darwin's TWI get majorly effected. For the Wallabies sake having four teams is better than a Fijian senario whereby they have player playing across 15 or so professional teams. Also doesnt allow for mid tournament camps etc.

 

[Viking]

Yes but like it or not they are recognisable players that give general sports fans a reason to tune in.

People like watching Kurley Beale. As much as Mark Nawaqanitawase might excite some of us nerds on here, he's not getting people through the gate like a Beale or a Hooper or a Koroibete or even a Karmichael Hunt.

If we were giving out salaries purely on playing ability then yes we'd have a more equitable system. But that's not how our market operates..
.

I could understand that argument for Folau or Quade, but the players you mentioned have pretty mediocre marketability.

 

[barbarian]

I could understand that argument for Folau or Quade, but the players you mentioned have pretty mediocre marketability.

I'd suggest Kurtley is our second most marketable player behind Folau.
.

 

[Silverado]

I'd suggest Kurtley is our second most marketable player behind Folau.
.

I would also point out that while he had a rocks or diamonds world cup, he was the architect of some of Petaia's impact which was one of the few highlights

 

[Lorenzo]

I'd suggest Kurtley is our second most marketable player behind Folau.
.

I accept that there's more (breakfast cereal box covers, ads for qantas etc) to it that crowds and TV, but did the Tahs attract more people to the game or their TV coverage in 2019 or 2018 than they did in 2017 (when KB (Kurtley Beale) was absent), even when you control for other variables like competition wide downward trends? I kinda doubt it. Did KB (Kurtley Beale) deliver a premium in revenue equal or greater than his salary premium? I'd be shocked.


I don't think rugby has the same star power aspects that other sports might. Maybe when Dan Carter played overseas, those clubs got a big bump. Has there been a LeBron James type star in rugby since Lomu?

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

I accept that there's more (breakfast cereal box covers, ads for qantas etc) to it that crowds and TV, but did the Tahs attract more people to the game or their TV coverage in 2019 or 2018 than they did in 2017 (when KB (Kurtley Beale) was absent), even when you control for other variables like competition wide downward trends? I kinda doubt it. Did KB (Kurtley Beale) deliver a premium in revenue equal or greater than his salary premium? I'd be shocked.


I don't think rugby has the same star power aspects that other sports might. Maybe when Dan Carter played overseas, those clubs got a big bump. Has there been a LeBron James type star in rugby since Lomu?

There wasn't one before and there hasn't been one since Jonah.

 

[Viking]

I'd suggest Kurtley is our second most marketable player behind Folau.
.

I'd suggest that would be Cooper - based on social media he has over 5 times more followers.

Kurtley likely third though.

Edit: Pocock would be up there too.

 

[RugbyReg]

I'd suggest that would be Cooper - based on social media he has over 5 times more followers.

Kurtley likely third though.

Edit: Pocock would be up there too.

I think Kurtley as an indigenous player throws him up higher. Everyone loves the indigenous jersey and I reckon that (and their indigenous talent program) has given RA lots of credit in the corporate (and government) world. That all helps when you have an actual aboriginal in the jersey.

 

[Derpus]

I would also point out that while he had a rocks or diamonds world cup, he was the architect of some of Petaia's impact which was one of the few highlights

Beside the Chip kick and the desperate cut out pass Kurtley actually played pretty well against England.

 

[Rob42]

If you remove the 60 cap threshold on Giteau's law, the workload for the Wallaby coaching staff and selectors goes up significantly. Instead of monitoring 3 or 4 Super games a weekend, plus maybe a few club games, they're supposed to then keep track of maybe a dozen players in Europe, trying to assess the quality of the overseas players in various different comps, various different playing styles, etc. It would be a nightmare.

At least with the 60 cap limit, the pool of overseas players is restricted to a few players who are "known quantities" - if they're physically fit, the coach knows what they are going to deliver in the Wallaby situation, because they've done 60+ times before.

 

[Viking]

I think Kurtley as an indigenous player throws him up higher. Everyone loves the indigenous jersey and I reckon that (and their indigenous talent program) has given RA lots of credit in the corporate (and government) world. That all helps when you have an actual aboriginal in the jersey.

True. Do we have any other up and coming indigenous players?

 

[Viking]

If you remove the 60 cap threshold on Giteau's law, the workload for the Wallaby coaching staff and selectors goes up significantly. Instead of monitoring 3 or 4 Super games a weekend, plus maybe a few club games, they're supposed to then keep track of maybe a dozen players in Europe, trying to assess the quality of the overseas players in various different comps, various different playing styles, etc. It would be a nightmare.

At least with the 60 cap limit, the pool of overseas players is restricted to a few players who are "known quantities" - if they're physically fit, the coach knows what they are going to deliver in the Wallaby situation, because they've done 60+ times before.

I think that's a soft excuse to disregard dropping the 60 cap rule. Not that I am arguing to drop it, but if the reason is because you don't want to track oversea's players then that's just lazy. They should be some-what doing that now anyway.

The french coach is assessing 14 teams in the top 14, and the England coach something similar.

If a player is performing well they will naturally be on their radar anyway, they don't exactly have to track every rookie in an oversea's team.

It's not a nightmare, it's there job. They have full-time assistants to help too. SA seems to do it fine so I don't see a problem there.

 

[RugbyReg]

True. Do we have any other up and coming indigenous players?

Maurice Longbottom in the 7s (was thinking could he converted into a Cheslin Kolbe type winger?), Mahalia Murphy in the Wallaroos.

Mosese Sorovi is a TI lad.

not sure of any others.

 

[MarkJ]

This article lists Indigenous players who were in the Australian super rugby teams this year:

https://nit.com.au/could-2019-be-a-tide-turner-for-australia-in-the-super-rugby/

 

[Brumby Runner]

I feel we are thin at 12 too. Unless JOC (James O'Connor) plays there and performs well. Who else is there but rookies?

Meakes, Foketai and Simone. Maybe not as experienced as we would like, but a long way from being Rookies.