Wallabies 2020

[Up the Guts]

Cheika got left behind a bit in the end. The style of rugby he coaches just can't deal with modern rush defences. The width in the play looks great when it comes off, like Hodge's set-piece try against Argentina, but it's too high risk unless you're extremely well-drilled like Japan. Make an error at the line outside the 30 channel with the defence in your face and it more than likely leads to a try via turnover ball. This is exacerbated by chopping and changing combinations.

Blame, of course, lies with Cheika for not changing the plan in the face of clear headwinds but there's probably also an argument to be made that he just didn't know how to coach any other style of rugby or was incapable. To this extent, RA are also culpable for backing themselves into a corner with their contracting.

Whoever we get next, I just hope they're the tactician not the motivator. The fact that Tolu Latu was the standout improver suggests that Cheika was good for giving wasted talented a kick up the arse but not great in channeling motivated talent into success.

 

[Viking]

Jeremy Pauls preference for coach is an interesting one that no-one has mentioned:

Scott Robertson Crusaders coach

I guess it just feels a little too Deans-esque... but he could be onto something.

 

[Spruce Moose]

I think Rennie is maybe not getting the credit he deserves. He took the Chiefs from 10th to 1st in his first year then proved it wasn't a fluke by going back to back. It is true that he got in some key players like Cruden, SBW and Retallick but its one thing getting the players and another thing is using them in a winning team.

 

[Up the Guts]

Jeremy Pauls preference for coach is an interesting one that no-one has mentioned:

Scott Robertson Crusaders coach

I guess it just feels a little too Deans-esque. but he could be onto something.

I feel like we'd just be building Razor's CV for the inevitable AB gig. He'd probably do a decent job though.

 

[Lost]

Jeremy Pauls preference for coach is an interesting one that no-one has mentioned:

Scott Robertson Crusaders coach

I guess it just feels a little too Deans-esque. but he could be onto something.

Any Kiwi we get is only here because they didn’t get the job they all want

Some we would consider are likely not even on the short list for the NZ job

We need to run a proper process, so as to not make the same mistakes again

Pretty sure we wont because it has already been run and won. Johnson didn’t come home for a short run or to do development.

He will be the holding position till Rennie arrives mid year before the first tests.

The interesting bit will be if Clyne and Castle survive their atrocious handling of the Folau affair

Might get untidy if the people Johnson&Rennie did their deal with are no longer. Clyne has form in getting Board politics wrong and Castle must be on thin ice.

The fun has not started yet

 

[Viking]

I think Rennie is maybe not getting the credit he deserves. He took the Chiefs from 10th to 1st in his first year then proved it wasn't a fluke by going back to back. It is true that he got in some key players like Cruden, SBW and Retallick but its one thing getting the players and another thing is using them in a winning team.

Same with Jake White.

Took Brumbies from 13th to 7th in his first year just missing the finals - with both flyhalves out injured in To'omua and Lilo for a period and really no star players at the time.

Then in the second year improved further 3rd and taking the Brumbies to the final (and beating the Bulls in SA in a semi-final) only losing to Rennies Cheifs by 5 points. He always beat the B & I Lions when they were on tour - no easy feat. Again, with relatively no stars in the team: White, Mogg, Mowen, Lilo, To'omua barely had a wallabies cap by then.

This is really what impressed me most about his tenure - the lack of stars in the team but how be built success around them and played to their strengths.

 

[Viking]

Any Kiwi we get is only here because they didn’t get the job they all want

Some we would consider are likely not even on the short list for the NZ job

We need to run a proper process, so as to not make the same mistakes again

Pretty sure we wont because it has already been run and won. Johnson didn’t come home for a short run or to do development.

He will be the holding position till Rennie arrives mid year before the first tests.

The interesting bit will be if Clyne and Castle survive their atrocious handling of the Folau affair

Might get untidy if the people Johnson&Rennie did their deal with are no longer. Clyne has form in getting Board politics wrong and Castle must be on thin ice.

The fun has not started yet

I wonder who is in the running for the NZ job. I suspect Hansen will move on after the RWC also but for obviously different reasons then Cheika.

 

[Lorenzo]

What's the story with the 2020 schedule? Who is coming out in July?

 

[Lorenzo]

Cheika got left behind a bit in the end. The style of rugby he coaches just can't deal with modern rush defences. The width in the play looks great when it comes off, like Hodge's set-piece try against Argentina, but it's too high risk unless you're extremely well-drilled like Japan. Make an error at the line outside the 30 channel with the defence in your face and it more than likely leads to a try via turnover ball. This is exacerbated by chopping and changing combinations.

Blame, of course, lies with Cheika for not changing the plan in the face of clear headwinds but there's probably also an argument to be made that he just didn't know how to coach any other style of rugby or was incapable. To this extent, RA are also culpable for backing themselves into a corner with their contracting.

Whoever we get next, I just hope they're the tactician not the motivator. The fact that Tolu Latu was the standout improver suggests that Cheika was good for giving wasted talented a kick up the arse but not great in channeling motivated talent into success.

The ball control offence couldn't handle the old defences, never mind the modern ones. The reality is that no test sides have ever been able to consistently put together 80 metre scoring drives and that is because of the constant contest for possession and the quality of the defences (relative to provincial footy). I'd say Cheika was less stuck in the past and more stuck in the Top 14 or Super Rugby or whatever.

 

[KOB1987]

What's the story with the 2020 schedule? Who is coming out in July?

I think it’s Ireland and Fiji

 

[KOB1987]

The Oz this morning is claiming that Larkham is in the running for the coaching gig. It doesn’t quote any sources though, I think the writer - Jim Tucker - has just come up with his own hit list.

 

[barbarian]

Cheika got left behind a bit in the end. The style of rugby he coaches just can't deal with modern rush defences. The width in the play looks great when it comes off, like Hodge's set-piece try against Argentina, but it's too high risk unless you're extremely well-drilled like Japan. Make an error at the line outside the 30 channel with the defence in your face and it more than likely leads to a try via turnover ball. This is exacerbated by chopping and changing combinations..

I wrote an article about it, but the 'we never do any homework' thing was also a huge factor, IMO.

In a long domestic season that approach makes a degree of sense. You are probably better off focussing on your own game rather than trying to change things up every week for 20 weeks. Opposition teams also don't have the time to analyse and adapt on a week to week basis.

But his steadfast refusal to alter this approach played a big role in his downfall. Playing a possession-based game is all well and good, but playing the SAME possession-based game every week is just madness.

The 'running it from your own 22' tactic became a bit of a lightning rod for criticism, not just because it's a high-risk tactic but because we did it every fkn time. Funnily enough we did exactly the same thing in the 2003 semi-final against NZ, but it worked because we had never before used that strategy. It caught NZ on the hop and we profited from that.

Maybe I'm repeating myself a bit, but I still can't quite get over how proud he was of not doing much opposition analysis or tactical work. Because he was such a good coach in many other aspects, and clearly an intelligent guy - how could he not see the flaws in this approach?
.

 

[wamberal]

Maybe his problem is his ego. He did some good things but he appears to be incapable of learning from his mistakes, or of considering the possibility that his philosophies are just wrong to some extent.


I would bet that every successful national team at the highest level spends a lot of time fine tuning their approach according to the strengths and weaknesses of their next opponent. Not us, apparently.

 

[RugbyReg]

Jamie Joseph available?

Wayne Smith too perhaps?

Japan and Jake White just don’t fit.

 

[Viking]

The Oz this morning is claiming that Larkham is in the running for the coaching gig. It doesn’t quote any sources though, I think the writer - Jim Tucker - has just come up with his own hit list.

Now that would be the worst appointment. His tenure as head as the Brumbies was very disappointing. Hard to judge him as 'attack' coach at the wallabies since he came out as disagreeing with Cheika on the wobs attack philosophy. But his time as head coach for the Brumbies they played a very one-dimensional game which was essentially maul and kick - built off the strengths Jake White instilled into the team but instead of building on that he actually went backwards and the teams attack was even more one dimensional then when White was coaching.

Larkhams coaching abilities was one of the most disappointing coming from such a decorated player (and my fav player).

 

[formerflanker]

Finding a defence coach is going to be the most difficult problem.

The pool of head coaches is fairly obvious. Same with players.

Finding a D coach is difficult because the best guy could be hiding anywhere, largely unheralded.

I'm available! Defend in your own channel like a bull elephant. One shallow covering player, one deep.
Done.

 

[Lorenzo]

What has Larkham achieved as a coach that warrants even his consideration?

 

[fatprop]

With Aus appearing to have a quite solid tight five and pants backs, Jake White maybe the sensible choice

Absolutely boring, dire but winning rugby

 

[wamberal]

With Aus appearing to have a quite solid tight five and pants backs, Jake White maybe the sensible choice

Absolutely boring, dire but winning rugby

I reckon he is canny enough to work out ways for us to win and that means attacking one way or another. In a strange sort of way I would love to think that we will ever be good enough at the boring stuff to win that way, but we never will be.

 

[barbarian]

Given Channel 10 are our TV partners, it's in our interest to be providing them with watchable content.

With that in mind, who amongst us wouldn't watch 'The Masked Coach', where 8 top line coaches wear complex outfits and compete to win the Wallaby top job.

Hosted by Shaun Maloney and judged by Rod Macqueen, Tim Horan and Lindsay Lohan.
.