Wallabies 2020

[Derpus]

Maddocks has been poor and, date I say it, seems disinterested.

Nawaqanitawase has a lot of promise, and I was a big fan of him being given an opportunity at the start of the season. But he has been exposed as having some serious deficiencies. I wouldn’t be including him. I can understand if they do - but I would suggest that it would be better for his development if he was sent back to Shute Shield.

Harrison I would 100% include. Hooper is a given. Guys like Gordon, Bell & HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) would all be considered I assume - but I don’t think any would be hard done by to be left out. Not sure there is anyone else you can make an argument for. Maybe Simmons for experience but he isn’t in form.

Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) is clearly far beyond Shute Shield. He has positional deficiencies which almost every winger does at the start of their careers.

 

[The Nomad]

^Where will he sort out his deficiencies if not in SS ?

Agree there is a lot to like and great potential, but being shown up in defense regularly in Super Rugby can't be the best way to develop.

 

[Derpus]

^Where will he sort out his deficiencies if not in SS ?

Agree there is a lot to like and great potential, but being shown up in defense regularly in Super Rugby can't be the best way to develop.

Initial failure is a universally accepted method of learning.

How is he supposed to learn how to defend at a higher level if he is defending at a lower level. He's probably fine defensively in SS.

 

[wamberal]

Initial failure is a universally accepted method of learning.

How is he supposed to learn how to defend at a higher level if he is defending at a lower level. He's probably fine defensively in SS.

I could be mistaken, but I am pretty sure he has only played a couple of first grade games. He has played half a dozen NRC games. He came from League, pretty sure he was only at Eastwood for a season, but could have been two, lower grades mostly.

 

[TSR]

Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) is clearly far beyond Shute Shield. He has positional deficiencies which almost every winger does at the start of their careers.

The rational for keeping him at Super level is all about his standing compared to the competitors for his spot, who all have their own shortcomings. I’m sorry, but I complete miss any sense in your argument that he is too good to be demoted if a suitable replacement exists. Ideally the standard of Shute Shield would be closer to Super Rugby then it is, but it is the next level down available and is the best available development ground for players wanting to develop to Super level (supplemented by lots of work in training).

The alternate is to stand him down and not play him at all - where is the logic in that?

 

[Derpus]

The rational for keeping him at Super level is all about his standing compared to the competitors for his spot, who all have their own shortcomings. I’m sorry, but I complete miss any sense in your argument that he is too good to be demoted if a suitable replacement exists. Ideally the standard of Shute Shield would be closer to Super Rugby then it is, but it is the next level down available and is the best available development ground for players wanting to develop to Super level (supplemented by lots of work in training).

The alternate is to stand him down and not play him at all - where is the logic in that?

I never argued he shouldn't be dropped if there was a better option. There isnt, though.

I was just pointing out that initially failing is fine and is part of learning.

 

[TSR]

But your rational is that he is too good to benefit from playing Shute Shield.

Defence is a combination of technique, confidence, communication & attitude. He could improve all 4 of these aspects against lessor opposition.

In any case, it’s all irrelevant in any case. Firstly, we both agree that the possible replacements have their own issues (which doesn’t, IMO, mean Nawaqanitawase shouldn’t be sent back to Shute Shield for his own long term benefit). Secondly, given there is neither Shute Shield nor Super Rugby going on, he can’t get selected for either anyway.

But I wouldn’t have him in the Wallabies squad at this time.

 

[Derpus]

Hes definitely too good for Shute Shield - the quality is miles below Super.

Agree hes not in the frame for Wallabies though.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yeah, but they won’t ditch Sio, and nor should they. Plus - didn’t it come out that he has been carrying his injury all season. It’ll be interesting how he returns after the break.

I’d like to see Wright included. There is a lot to like about his game.

TSR, there is a possible answer to your earlier question.

I think 11 of Slim's Brumbies are certainties with the twelfth being a choice between Neville, Swain and Wright. Now, if Wright isn't in the squad, then I would omit Campbell from the Reds' list to accommodate him. I would also be disappointed if eithe of Swain or Neville misses out. Neville is one of the form Locks this year, while Swain is definitely on par with Blyth and Hockings, both of whom are impressive. Swain's point of difference is his ability to disrupt opposition mauls, not as good as Rory yet but somewhere about Rodda's level, while being excellent at set piece as well. He is arguably one of the most aggressive Locks in defense.

As for the Tahs, I think Maddocks and HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) are especially unfortunate to have missed out. Not sure who the 8 Rebels are but would have to include Naisarani, To'omua, Koroibete and DHP. Mat Philip probably also there, as he should be, but the other three are a bit of a mystery to me. I don't think either of Hodge or Meakes have yet really established themselves at Wallaby level, and the 8th? Maybe Deegan which I would applaud.

 

[Rebels3]

Rebels will most likely be

To'omua, Naisarani, Hodge, Kellaway, Koroibete, DHP, Philip and 8) will be either Rangi/Uelese

 

[Braveheart81]

The supposed squad could be something like:

14 Reds: Tupou, Mafi, Rodda, Salakaia-Loto, Blyth, Hockings, Wright, Wilson, McDermott, Petaia, Stewart, Paisami, Hoopert, JOC (James O'Connor)
12 Brumbies: Sio, Slipper, Ala'alatoa, Fainga'a, Banks, Valetini, Samu, Powell, Lolesio, Kuridrani, Simone, Neville
8 Rebels: To'omua, Koroibete, Naisarani, Hodge, Haylett-Petty, Rangi, Kellaway, Smith
3 Waratahs: Hooper, Bell, Gordon

Prop: Sio, Slipper, Ala'alatoa, Tupou, Bell, Hoopert, Smith
Hooker: Fainga'a, Rangi, Mafi
Lock: Salakaia-Loto, Rodda, Hockings, Blyth, Neville
Backrow: Hooper, Valetini, Naisarani, Samu, Wilson, Wright
Half: Powell, McDermott, Gordon
Fly half: To'omua, JOC (James O'Connor), Lolesio
Centres: Petaia, Kuridrani, Simone, Stewart, Paisami
Back three: Haylett-Petty, Banks, Koroibete, Kellaway, Wright, Hodge

Hard to know exactly how balanced they have tried to make this "squad" seeing as it isn't actually a selected squad. It's possible that it's overweight in various positions where there is more competition but I have gone on the assumption that it's going to be pretty close to a balanced squad in order to make some selections make sense.

 

[Froggy]

Mark N (Nawaqanitawase) has shown himself to be simply not strong enough for Super rugby yet, so certainly not a Wallaby prospect, Great potential, though, and I think worth keeping in Super rugby and getting some time late. At this stage, though, I would have the much less feted Ramm ahead of him.
I suppose Uelese will be there, again great potential, but how long can you coast on your deeds of three years ago without actually playing any rugby?

 

[TSR]

I understand Campbell is in the squad

 

[RugbyReg]

To clarify, if the supposed squad is selected as much for this year as for future development and potential for the next world cup and beyond then I have no problem with 14 Reds selected. Players like McReight, Daugunu etc have huge potential for future national success. I then have issue with only 3 Tahs given some of the promise that a number of those players have for the national set up going forward despite there struggles this season with a new coach and new system.

McReight would be one of the top 3 inform opensides in the Oz conference. Easy. Wright, Hooper and McReight.

Samu excellent, but isn't an openside. Just plays there.

I'd be very surprised if Daugunu is in the squad. Can't see Thorn speaking up for him.

 

[TSR]

Is that purely based on his tackle/suspension earlier this year Reg, or is there more to it then that?

 

[Ignoto]

For the Reds, COVID has messed my head with who's played what. But surely you'd have JP Smith over Hoopert as Harry didn't play much in the season we had?

 

[upthereds#!]

The supposed squad could be something like:

14 Reds: Tupou, Mafi, Rodda, Salakaia-Loto, Blyth, Hockings, Wright, Wilson, McDermott, Petaia, Stewart, Paisami, Hoopert, JOC (James O'Connor)
12 Brumbies: Sio, Slipper, Ala'alatoa, Fainga'a, Banks, Valetini, Samu, Powell, Lolesio, Kuridrani, Simone, Neville
8 Rebels: To'omua, Koroibete, Naisarani, Hodge, Haylett-Petty, Rangi, Kellaway, Smith
3 Waratahs: Hooper, Bell, Gordon

Prop: Sio, Slipper, Ala'alatoa, Tupou, Bell, Hoopert, Smith
Hooker: Fainga'a, Rangi, Mafi
Lock: Salakaia-Loto, Rodda, Hockings, Blyth, Neville
Backrow: Hooper, Valetini, Naisarani, Samu, Wilson, Wright
Half: Powell, McDermott, Gordon
Fly half: To'omua, JOC (James O'Connor), Lolesio
Centres: Petaia, Kuridrani, Simone, Stewart, Paisami
Back three: Haylett-Petty, Banks, Koroibete, Kellaway, Wright, Hodge

Hard to know exactly how balanced they have tried to make this "squad" seeing as it isn't actually a selected squad. It's possible that it's overweight in various positions where there is more competition but I have gone on the assumption that it's going to be pretty close to a balanced squad in order to make some selections make sense.

Don't think R Smith at the Rebels is eligible (and plays behind Ainsley) - imagine it Phillips from there as a lock

Also Don't think Hoopert got in there over Daugunu.

Yes that only leaves 5 props so there might be another 1 in there especially if they didn't pick phillips (with reports he is going overseas)

 

[Silverado]

Don't think R Smith at the Rebels is eligible (and plays behind Ainsley) - imagine it Phillips from there as a lock

Also Don't think Hoopert got in there over Daugunu.

Yes that only leaves 5 props so there might be another 1 in there especially if they didn't pick phillips (with reports he is going overseas)

I don't think Gordon is a lock over White, so leaves Simmons or HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) possible as part of the Tahs 3

 

[Adam84]

The reds had the hardest draw? They have played 3 teams with records of 1-5. Tahs have played one team with that record and then 4 of the top 5 teams.

I said the hardest draw in terms of travel, which is 100% true.. Waratahs have had to go no further then a 2 hr flight to New Zealand, Reds had already visited Canberra, Argentina and South Africa in the first 3 weeks.

 

[dru]

I said the hardest draw in terms of travel, which is 100% true.. Waratahs have had to go no further then a 2 hr flight to New Zealand, Reds had already visited Canberra, Argentina and South Africa in the first 3 weeks.

In terms of selecting individuals for a rep team, there were plenty from the Reds. The w/l ratio doesn’t necessarily reflect that if the WB coaches believe they can use the players.

It is however another example (a little off topic here) of why Brad needs to be seen to step up as/if we return to play.