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Wallabies 2020

Zero_Cool

Arch Winning (36)
@Dctarget
I think it was me mentioning that Coleman looked to have lost that edge around when he had kids, and I do not blame him at all. I'd completely be the same heck I'd never even had that edge to begin with. But I'd agree it's correlation not causation, but could be. But whatever the reason is, he has looked to have lost his edge a little.

As for the wingers I think the physical demands that playing on the wing puts you under combined with the magnifying glass they are put under both in attack and defense really limits your longevity. If you're found out in defense as a winger you can't be played because you'll ship points, if you're found out in attack you can't score and you can't be played. If you lose that speed and power as a pure winger you can't be played. Then the wing is often used as an easy entry point for young kids because when you are young typically you are faster and more dynamic as well as being in a less pivotal position. And lastly, the OS clubs love an Aussie winger almost as much as an Aussie backrower.



I'd agree with the others who have said we can't take someone like a Skelton (a grounded lock), while we have the players to probably overcome that -- especially coming out of the Cheika era, I don't think we can't pick fundamentally flawed players and cover it up with picking other flawed players.

If we were to go down that path (a non-jumping lock) we don't really have an 8 that can jump. Samu is a jumping 8, Willson is serviceable, but Isi isn't a jumper. Wright and Ned can both play 6 and jump enough as a 6 (as well as Samu). But the truth is there are no 'dedicated' jumping positions in the back row. What you ideally want is 3 very good jumpers (often 2 locks and 6) and ideally 1 serviceable jumper typically 8 but sometimes 7.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
I'd agree with the others who have said we can't take someone like a Skelton (a grounded lock), while we have the players to probably overcome that -- especially coming out of the Cheika era, I don't think we can't pick fundamentally flawed players and cover it up with picking other flawed players.

If we were to go down that path (a non-jumping lock) we don't really have an 8 that can jump. Samu is a jumping 8, Willson is serviceable, but Isi isn't a jumper. Wright and Ned can both play 6 and jump enough as a 6 (as well as Samu). But the truth is there are no 'dedicated' jumping positions in the back row. What you ideally want is 3 very good jumpers (often 2 locks and 6) and ideally 1 serviceable jumper typically 8 but sometimes 7.


Out of interest, when did you last watch a game of rugby Skelton played?
 

Zero_Cool

Arch Winning (36)
Yeah, I'll admit I've not watched a full game of him since he's gone to Europe, I've seen a few highlights -- but that's why I clarified with 'grounded lock'.

If he's gotten much better -- AND can jump he could be an option, I just think we need to ensure our lineout functions well, if the locks give us much around the park then that's a bonus IMO.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Absolutely nothing pisses me off more than opinions on Skelton from people who didn't watch him play for the Saracens. Specifically the Champions Cup semi and final.

He's under 130kgs now. Not withstanding he was still a Test player when he left Aus - he's almost completely different now.
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
And then Arnold becomes a very handy mentor for the up and comers in Super Rugby. There are some very good prospects.
 

Try-ranosaurus Rex

Darby Loudon (17)
I hope that if we're bringing back one or two of Arnold, Rodda or Skelton, it doesn't come at the consequence of one of Hosea, Phillip or Blyth form a development perspective. I hope it comes at the expense of Simmons or Hanigan (whom are both O/S next year and have known ceilings as players).
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
Maddocks has been hot and cold. If you compare their play purely at fullback Campbell has been better across the tournament and also earlier in the year. Banks was good earlier in the year but has struggled at Super AU. DHP has missed most of the tournament through injury.

Personally I do think Campbell has been the best fullback - but that doesn’t mean he will or should get the Wallaby gig. I would still have DHP in front of him for the Wallabies. I could see them using Maddocks as well, but as good as he has been in some games he’s been terrible in others. I don’t see him as a lock in at all and Banks form of late is doing him no favours. I think Hodge is more likely to be the back up because he has better utility value and his form is more consistent than the other two and his international experience gets him in front of Campbell.

Campbell has sucked on the wing though.

A new coach and new management at RA combined with the disrupted season is a good reason to select on form.

Is Campbell doing well because he can handle stress on and off the field better than the others?

I would like a team picked purely on form, we have just had an entire season of possibles v probables and those who excelled were up to the task of having to perform. The players knew that they had to prove themselves against the opponents and this is why their was so much heat between the teams.

I for one want a team based on form AND only for those who are currently playing in Super AU.

If we lose then we simply are not good enough and need to improve. We have a team that could be one of the youngest across the field who should be supported for their loyalty and rewarded by being selected.
 

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
I have no idea where Tolu Latu is or if he's been playing at all, but he was outstanding for us in the World Cup and would be in my top three to return for the RC.

Folau Fainga'a is a good young player, but him running out against the ABs doesn't fill me with confidence. I'd be throwing Latu in at 2, and bringing a lock back as well to pair with LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto).
 

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
My opposition to Will Skelton is that more then any of the other players, he has had a number of opportunities to return to Australia and play for the Wallabies, the most significant were prolonged negotiations prior to the 2019 RWC where he offered the opportunity to come back and play for Australia at the RWC, but he prioritised the money of Saracens over the opportunity to represent his country at the RWC.

Despite the lack of depth at lock, i don’t think that’s the kind of attitude to be rewarded.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
My opposition to Will Skelton is that more then any of the other players, he has had a number of opportunities to return to Australia.

Despite the lack of depth at lock, i don’t think that’s the kind of attitude to be rewarded.


In a world where locks are the most prized of all the positions, who cares about the past? What counts is, what is the best decision today. The only caveat would be that we simply must retain the best of our good young prospects.
 

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
In a world where locks are the most prized of all the positions, who cares about the past? What counts is, what is the best decision today. The only caveat would be that we simply must retain the best of our good young prospects.

Its hardly ancient history, he has signed with two different teams in the past 18months.
We’re not talking about retention though are we, and i don’t see how this decision assist Australia in retaining the best of our good young prospects either.
 

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
What counts is, what is the best decision today.
Not if today's decision has a detrimental effect on the future



The only caveat would be that we simply must retain the best of our good young prospects.

Why should a young player be loyal and sign up to play for less money in Australia if they are going to miss selection to an overseas based player?

I don't think that you can achieve both of your objectives at the same time.

It is ok to lose a game of rugby, as long as you are improving each game.

The young players we have may not win this season, but will win into the future, and in time for the next world cup.
 
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