Wallabies 2019 Thread

[Braveheart81]

The idea of yet another Kiwi being coach of any Australian team offends me, but I'm also a realist. I can't recall a time when the coaching stocks of this country have been in such poor shape.

Maybe it's time to start promoting some coaches from premier grade rugby into Super roles while an overseas candidate takes the Wallaby job? For example, a Darren Coleman, who has done an excellent job with the Stags after doing an equally excellent job with the Rats, becomes coach of the Tahs and drags some quality young coaches with him. Or get Jason Gilmore from the U20's into a Super role?

Darren Coleman isn't coaching in the NRC this year which is a bit of a surprise. It suggests to me that either he wants a break or is heading overseas somewhere. If he was about to join the Tahs he would have been an NRC head coach again.

I agree completely we need to keep appointing Super Rugby assistant coaches from within Australia to give them better experience. I still think that it is a bridge to far to then expect a pathway straight to Super Rugby head coach.

Super Rugby is too strong a competition where it can be someone's first serious professional head coaching gig and expect that to be a success in my view. McKellar has probably done the best taking his side to the semi finals in his second year.

Realistically the pathway of being a Super Rugby assistant coach to a head coach overseas somewhere to being a Super Rugby head coach is a better pathway.

 

[Strewthcobber]

The idea of yet another Kiwi being coach of any Australian team offends me, but I'm also a realist. I can't recall a time when the coaching stocks of this country have been in such poor shape.

Maybe it's time to start promoting some coaches from premier grade rugby into Super roles while an overseas candidate takes the Wallaby job? For example, a Darren Coleman, who has done an excellent job with the Stags after doing an equally excellent job with the Rats, becomes coach of the Tahs and drags some quality young coaches with him. Or get Jason Gilmore from the U20's into a Super role?

It's as good a place as any to find candidates for good coaches but the reality is there's a huge gulf between coaching semi-pros in the Shute Shield and going up against the best in the business in Super Rugby.

The reality is probably we don't have a pathway that can develop good enough head coaches in our structure and prospects need to go overseas to develop and learn what they need to produce a competitive Super Rugby outfit.

One of the reasons I was pleased to see Cron head to Japan

The record shows that Super Rugby Coaches who win the comp do so in their first or second year. You can't learn on the job. It doesn't work

 

[Braveheart81]

Pete Samu playing club rugby this weekend per Chris Dutton on twitter.

Hopefully he gets through without issue and is then back in the 23 for the first Bledisloe test.

 

[RugbyReg]

Dave Rennie as Wallaby Coach with Scott Wisemantle getting a Head Coach gig at the Tahs, while Wessels, McKeller and Thorn coach the other Super teams is a pretty exciting, young coaching structure at the moment.

 

[Tex]

Dave Rennie as Wallaby Coach with Scott Wisemantle getting a Head Coach gig at the Tahs, while Wessels, McKeller and Thorn coach the other Super teams is a pretty exciting, young coaching structure at the moment.

RR you're on a final warning for bringing optimism into this thread.

 

[kiap]

Darren Coleman isn't coaching in the NRC this year which is a bit of a surprise.

It's not really. The ground moved more than a year ago and I'd say Coleman knew 2018 would be his last. A level of success helped get him that fourth and fifth year - a long tenure in NRC - when he probably could have gone earlier.

You could see that by the job movements he made last year that took him more outside the tent. NSW Rugby (or sub-branch thereof) / University control of the team has always come with a push to hire their own - because the NRC is not a stand-alone comp.

If he was about to join the Tahs he would have been an NRC head coach again.

That's true, although the Tahs season transition was a mess with coaching departures. Some hastily made rearrangements for the Tahs.

 

[Tomikin]

Dave Rennie as Wallaby Coach with Scott Wisemantle getting a Head Coach gig at the Tahs, while Wessels, McKeller and Thorn coach the other Super teams is a pretty exciting, young coaching structure at the moment.

But remember we can't have a Saffa or a Kiwi coach us, in Wessels/Thorn... (I know that's ridiculous) Hopefully Wisemantle takes over at the Tah's

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Pete Samu playing club rugby this weekend per Chris Dutton on twitter.

Hopefully he gets through without issue and is then back in the 23 for the first Bledisloe test.

Yeh for me samu can’t find a starting place but definitely has a finisher place for my money!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Darren Coleman isn't coaching in the NRC this year which is a bit of a surprise. It suggests to me that either he wants a break or is heading overseas somewhere. If he was about to join the Tahs he would have been an NRC head coach again.

I agree completely we need to keep appointing Super Rugby assistant coaches from within Australia to give them better experience. I still think that it is a bridge to far to then expect a pathway straight to Super Rugby head coach.

Super Rugby is too strong a competition where it can be someone's first serious professional head coaching gig and expect that to be a success in my view. McKellar has probably done the best taking his side to the semi finals in his second year.

Realistically the pathway of being a Super Rugby assistant coach to a head coach overseas somewhere to being a Super Rugby head coach is a better pathway.

Well Darren Coleman was down to Coach western Sydney grr side this year which is why left warringah, and then when scuppered took on Gordon who took the wooden spoon last year and now 5th in Shute ladder under him, if that has not increased interest in his coaching credentials then BIG missed opportunity. I doubt the latter personally and if not offered GRR side coaching gig I can’t see him short of good offers in europe.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Sure, he has potential.

He's still yet to show he's a good Super Rugby coach though. He took comfortably the best Australian squad this year and again failed to make the playoffs.

My point was that people started suggesting he was ready to coach the Wallabies before there was any consistent proof that he was successful at Super Rugby level.

At this point, wessels needs to still prove he is up to super rugby level after the last season

 

[Rugbynutter39]

You must be having a laugh.

NZ rugby is not Australian rugby.

Foreign coaches do not work for us.

Nz coaches coaching oz sides not a great record. Don’t know why that is so by the way.

Take your pick. It would be very hard to be worse than Cheika. We are already losing almost all test matches ; the outcome is at a minimum the same.

 

[Quick Hands]

Darren Coleman isn't coaching in the NRC this year which is a bit of a surprise. It suggests to me that either he wants a break or is heading overseas somewhere. If he was about to join the Tahs he would have been an NRC head coach again.

I agree completely we need to keep appointing Super Rugby assistant coaches from within Australia to give them better experience. I still think that it is a bridge to far to then expect a pathway straight to Super Rugby head coach.

Super Rugby is too strong a competition where it can be someone's first serious professional head coaching gig and expect that to be a success in my view. McKellar has probably done the best taking his side to the semi finals in his second year.

Realistically the pathway of being a Super Rugby assistant coach to a head coach overseas somewhere to being a Super Rugby head coach is a better pathway.

In an ideal world the pathway would be SS/Bris Premier rugby etc, into NRC or whatever ends up filling that space, then assistant Super before being given a Super Rugby gig. I'd even say that a stint coaching overseas would give an even better grounding. Coaches makes mistakes just like players and referees and it's better to make those mistakes and learn those lessons at lower levels where the pressure week to week is less intense.

 

[Tomikin]

At this point, wessels needs to still prove he is up to super rugby level after the last season

After all his seasons, really what has he done, other then one good season with the Force, that he didn't make the finals in.

Dont get me wrong, he should be the coach of the Rebels getting that experience, then he should hit the open market and coach overseas or as a Wallabies assistant, for few years, coach some winning teams, then when all said and done he can throw his hat in the ring for Wallabies.

 

[Rugby Head]

Saw the All Blacks vs Springboks play earlier, now at half time for the wallabies game. The drop in standard between these two games is huge!

 

[Silverado]

Saw the All Blacks vs Springboks play earlier, now at half time for the wallabies game. The drop in standard between these two games is huge!

I'm watching both as well. The 1st 1/2 of ABs v Boks was pretty error ridden and uninspiring. Good finish though

 

[Derpus]

Saw the All Blacks vs Springboks play earlier, now at half time for the wallabies game. The drop in standard between these two games is huge!

I dunno. They were all pretty rusty and error strewn. Pretty bog standard start of the season stuff.

There wernt many points scored but at least there were plenty of breaks in the Wallabies v Pumas game.

 

[Bobby Sands]

All hail the new king Lilo.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Worth looking at original Wallabies Squad selected and assessing how their RWC chances going.

WALLABIES SQUAD​

Backs: ​

Tom Banks = RWC squad, but not sure proved enough for starting 23 yet, probably battling Reece Hodge for other wing spot.​

Dane Haylett-Petty = probably RWC squad despite poor Super Rugby form and shocker against SA, but will be struggling to break into 23.​

Reece Hodge = RWC squad and probably somewhere in 23. ​

Kurtley Beale = unless bad run, probably now favoured for starting 15 position, or at least guaranteed to be in the matchday 23. ​

Jack Maddocks = Might be battling for RWC squad place and certainly seems fair way from starting position, let alone reserve back position.​

Marika Koroibete = lock for starting wing spot​

Tevita Kuridrani = despite not offering much in attack so far probably still a lock for starting 13 position​

Adam Ashley-Cooper = you would think he would be struggling to make RWC squad but he brings rugby smarts and lot of experience and would not underestimate him surprising if gets chance to audition. But rank outside for RWC place probably at this point.​

Samu Kerevi = guaranteed regular starter at 12.​

Matt To'omua = probably battling with O'Connor for RWC place and at this point chances of making final RWC perhaps diminishing.​

Bernard Foley = Lilo providing some competition for starting 10 but probably still ahead. ​

Christian Lealiifano = was probably outside chance to make RWC before game against Argentina and now RWC place looks likely after great Super Rugby campaign and even chance to threaten Foley as starting 10. Not sure would be good bench option though so starting 10 or outside 23. ​

Will Genia = battling with Nic White for starting vs bench - more likely starting 9.​

Nic White = See above​

Joe Powell = RWC Squad if take 3 half backs but if only take 2 won't be going. Even if goes don't expect him to see much game time as fair way behind Genia and White​

​

Forwards:​

Isa Naisarani = even with Pocock back probably looks to have cemented the starting 8 position​

Jack Dempsey = probably in battle with Samu, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), Dempsey, Jones, Valetini for RWC place​

Michael Hooper = probably guaranteed starting 7 with Pocock to finish.​

Liam Wright = might just miss out on RWC but would not look out of place if made the final squad​

Luke Jones - probably in battle for RWC squad place (see comments on Jack Dempsey).​

Rob Valetini - probably in battle for RWC squad place (see comments on Jack Dempsey).​

Lukhan Salakaia-Loto = probably got RWC place but starting 23 position let alone starting position looking under serious threat.​

Izack Rodda = Starting lock with Arnold​

Rob Simmons = Bench lock​

Rory Arnold = Starting lock with Rodda​

Sekope Kepu,= RWC place for his experience but likely to shift out of matchday 23 when AAA comes back. ​

Allan Ala'alatoa = starting prop​

Taniela Tupou = finisher prop​

Scott Sio = starting prop​

James Slipper = finisher prop​

Tom Robertson = should make RWC squad​

Folau Fainga'a = starting hooker​

Tolu Latu = finisher hooker - his work at breakdown esp why should be on the bench​

Jordan Uelese = will make the RWC squad side as third hooker - can't see him getting much game time though but one for the future.​

 

[TSR]

Regarding above -
- 10 - I think selection for next test will be telling. I have Leali’ifano in front. But won’t be surprised if I’m wrong. Both need to be in the squad, but I am not convinced on both being in the 23
- personally not convinced by AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) this season, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes
- I think the lack of form of our outside backs gives a genuine chance for a Petaia to be given a shot. That may well be benefitting from not playing, but certainly the current group of Maddocks, Hodge, DHP, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) aren’t really locking down their spots IMO. Personally I would like to see that as I think Petaia looks like something special - but that is strictly on the proviso he is back to 100% injury wise, otherwise I am completely against it.
- I’d only take 1 of JOC (James O'Connor) or To'omua. I don’t think To'omua has been great, too early to comment on JOC (James O'Connor)
- I still have LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) in my 15. For me that only changes if we go for a different profile of 6 like Dempsey or Samu. I think Samu has been terrific this year, but I don’t think he makes it if Pocock goes. If Pocock doesn’t he could start.
- I doubt they’ll take 6 props
- I won’t be surprise if TPN ends up in the squad

 

[dru]

Regarding above -
- 10 - I think selection for next test will be telling. I have Leali’ifano in front. But won’t be surprised if I’m wrong. Both need to be in the squad, but I am not convinced on both being in the 23
- personally not convinced by AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) this season, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes
- I think the lack of form of our outside backs gives a genuine chance for a Petaia to be given a shot. That may well be benefitting from not playing, but certainly the current group of Maddocks, Hodge, DHP, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) aren’t really locking down their spots IMO. Personally I would like to see that as I think Petaia looks like something special - but that is strictly on the proviso he is back to 100% injury wise, otherwise I am completely against it.
- I’d only take 1 of JOC (James O'Connor) or To'omua. I don’t think To'omua has been great, too early to comment on JOC (James O'Connor)
- I still have LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) in my 15. For me that only changes if we go for a different profile of 6 like Dempsey or Samu. I think Samu has been terrific this year, but I don’t think he makes it if Pocock goes. If Pocock doesn’t he could start.
- I doubt they’ll take 6 props
- I won’t be surprise if TPN ends up in the squad

Few changes from me.

One of To'omua, JOC (James O'Connor) AND Hodge. Hodge well in front, To'omua out, JOC (James O'Connor) still to prove.
Give Dempsey a shot at starting 6. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) to bench covering lock and 6, drop Simmo.