Wallabies 2019 Thread

[Brumby Runner]

I love the repetitious cycle of this each year.

At the start of the year a bunch of fringe players and rookies get hyped as starting Wallabies based on form. A bunch of current Wallabies get their card marked to never be selected again.

Invariably once we're about a month away from the first test squad being selected, a bunch of those players who were red hot early in the season have dropped off and most of the old stagers have found decent form.

Oh? Last year from memory, Kepu was once again mentioned as an incumbent being overtaken, and by the test season both AAT and Tupou had the THP spot between them. Simmons is another who many posters pointed out was not playing up to scratch. I think he had effectively dropped down the Wallaby list behind Rodda (a younger player in red hot form early in the season), and probably Salakai-Loto in the tests he was available. Very few posters would have had TPN in the tests at the end of 2018 over FF (Folau Fainga'a) and BPA, even Latu at that time. While Foley was often mentioned as not being test standard, few were suggesting anyone else until To'omua became available. Doesn't look like Foley will survive as No 1 No 10 this year.

Who else among the older brigade were discarded by us all early on, only to see them come charging back into form in the test series?

 

[Braveheart81]

Oh? Last year from memory, Kepu was once again mentioned as an incumbent being overtaken, and by the test season both AAT and Tupou had the THP spot between them. Simmons is another who many posters pointed out was not playing up to scratch. I think he had effectively dropped down the Wallaby list behind Rodda (a younger player in red hot form early in the season), and probably Salakai-Loto in the tests he was available. Very few posters would have had TPN in the tests at the end of 2018 over FF (Folau Fainga'a) and BPA, even Latu at that time. While Foley was often mentioned as not being test standard, few were suggesting anyone else until To'omua became available. Doesn't look like Foley will survive as No 1 No 10 this year.

Who else among the older brigade were discarded by us all early on, only to see them come charging back into form in the test series?

Yet Kepu ended up starting 5 tests and coming off the bench in 7 last year.

Simmons had one start and came off the bench 11 times last year. He was still an important part of our locking group particularly with his expertise around the lineout.

Your excitement to discard players who are very likely to still play in the squad and/or in the 23 is rarely being realised.

Clearly if Foley continues to play the way he is currently he shouldn't be in the team, but again, we're 4 games into the season for a player who played uninterrupted through last year, had a short off season and no trials heading into this season. I will be highly surprised if his form in the back half of the season isn't substantially different to what it is now.

On the other hand, BPA was a player who stormed out of the gates at the start of last season so much that he came from nowhere to start against Ireland only to not get a look in by the end of the season because his form had fallen away so far.

 

[Dctarget]

Are we forgetting that Foley's form during the internationals last year was absolute ass, he was only flyhalf because we literally had no one else. Whereas Quade won NRC player of the year during the same time. It's not like his current form is surprising, it's a continuation of last years, as is Quade's.

Bandwagon steaming ahead lads, buy tickets quick.

 

[Derpus]

Are we forgetting that Foley's form during the internationals last year was absolute ass, he was only flyhalf because we literally had no one else. Whereas Quade won NRC player of the year during the same time. It's not like his current form is surprising, it's a continuation of last years, as is Quade's.

Bandwagon steaming ahead lads, buy tickets quick.

Agreed don't let BH shit on the parade just yet. There's nothing else to do but speculate wildly at this point anyway.

 

[Braveheart81]

We absolutely need both Cooper and Foley playing well. They're realistically the two options we have for the RWC to play 10. If both are in form there's a strong chance both make our best 23.

 

[Adam84]

Yet Kepu ended up starting 5 tests and coming off the bench in 7 last year.

Simmons had one start and came off the bench 11 times last year. He was still an important part of our locking group particularly with his expertise around the lineout.

Your excitement to discard players who are very likely to still play in the squad and/or in the 23 is rarely being realised.

Clearly if Foley continues to play the way he is currently he shouldn't be in the team, but again, we're 4 games into the season for a player who played uninterrupted through last year, had a short off season and no trials heading into this season. I will be highly surprised if his form in the back half of the season isn't substantially different to what it is now.

On the other hand, BPA was a player who stormed out of the gates at the start of last season so much that he came from nowhere to start against Ireland only to not get a look in by the end of the season because his form had fallen away so far.

Didn’t the Wallabies also have one of the worst seasons in a decade?
What you say might be correct, but doesn’t mean that other people are wrong in pushing the cause of emerging players ahead of the older out of form group.

 

[jimmydubs]

We absolutely need both Cooper and Foley playing well. They're realistically the two options we have for the RWC to play 10. If both are in form there's a strong chance both make our best 23.

Waste of a bench spot for 19/20 games. Go with no specialist flyhalf cover. Roll the dice. Live large.
Can't get excited about the iceman coming on with 20 to go.

 

[jimmydubs]

Didn’t the Wallabies also have one of the worst seasons in a decade?
What you say might be correct, but doesn’t mean that other people are wrong in pushing the cause of emerging players ahead of the older out of form group.

I thought it was worst in 30 years?

 

[gel]

You guys are on crack.

Foley will be the 10 no matter what. You all know it.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yet Kepu ended up starting 5 tests and coming off the bench in 7 last year.

Simmons had one start and came off the bench 11 times last year. He was still an important part of our locking group particularly with his expertise around the lineout.

Your excitement to discard players who are very likely to still play in the squad and/or in the 23 is rarely being realised.

Clearly if Foley continues to play the way he is currently he shouldn't be in the team, but again, we're 4 games into the season for a player who played uninterrupted through last year, had a short off season and no trials heading into this season. I will be highly surprised if his form in the back half of the season isn't substantially different to what it is now.

On the other hand, BPA was a player who stormed out of the gates at the start of last season so much that he came from nowhere to start against Ireland only to not get a look in by the end of the season because his form had fallen away so far.

BH, you know as well as I do that Kepu made most of his appearances as LHP after being displaced at TH by AAT and Tupou. And I give him credit for that. It doesn't alter my contention that he was displaced by players who showed better form from early in the season.

There are so many better locks than Rob Simmons going round atm that he will, post-Cheika, probably only get a run in the test side when he is the last man standing. Without Cheika, I maintain that would have been the situation in 2018 as well. Unfortunately, I can see so many of our locks moving o/s next year that Simmons will not just fade away as he should.

I made the point that Foley didn't get replaced because there were no other realistic options in 2018.

I understand that as a Tahs fan, you probably have to hang onto your hopes that somehow magically over the hill players in light blue will again dominate the test team selections, but on form at this stage and with an expectation of a balanced selection committee at the helm, only Izzy Folau is a likely starter, with Hooper, Dempsey, Gordon and Rona possible bench/squad members.

And Foley too unless Matt To'omua hits his straps late in the season.

 

[Derpus]

There are so many better locks than Rob Simmons going round atm that he will, post-Cheika, probably only get a run in the test side when he is the last man standing. Without Cheika, I maintain that would have been the situation in 2018 as well. Unfortunately, I can see so many of our locks moving o/s next year that Simmons will not just fade away as he should.

Problem is, there aren't that many locks running around better at a locks core functions, i.e. lineout and scrum. Simmons has the co-ordination of a new born giraffe, but his deficiencies around the field are a secondary consideration.

Lets not forget, Coleman oversaw the worst lineout in 30 odd years or whatever it was.

Unless a real bone fide lineout general comes out of the woodwork i think Simmons will continue to be in the squad. Rodda is looking encouraging though. Phillip and Jones also seem to be overseeing a solid lineout in Coleman's absence.

 

[Braveheart81]

BH, you know as well as I do that Kepu made most of his appearances as LHP after being displaced at TH by AAT and Tupou. And I give him credit for that. It doesn't alter my contention that he was displaced by players who showed better form from early in the season.

This is entirely why he's the red hot favourite to at worst be the 5th choice prop in the RWC squad.

There are so many better locks than Rob Simmons going round atm that he will, post-Cheika, probably only get a run in the test side when he is the last man standing. Without Cheika, I maintain that would have been the situation in 2018 as well. Unfortunately, I can see so many of our locks moving o/s next year that Simmons will not just fade away as he should.

There's a reason why he's played 94 tests across 3 coaches. He's a good player who excels at the set piece. I was hugely critical in the first half of his test career and think a lot of the reason for his selection was because we didn't have great options. We have better options now in general play but not necessarily at set piece. I still think there's a very strong chance he's in the RWC squad. If all our locking options stay healthy he might be the fourth option outside the 23 though.


Anyway, we'll see what happens as the season develops.

 

[fatprop]

FP I gladly concede you know more about prop forward play than I do, but I have to record that Kepu's errors come from the very start of a game, not when he gets tired. I think against the Brumbies he lost the ball on his very first carry, and the errors continued throughout.

All players lose the ball at times under good defensive pressure (it can be the pressure itself, a straight up drop and/or a bad pass), my issue with Kepu is the lazy entries and off sides that do happen when he is blowing.

 

[Tomikin]

Yeah, I wouldn't start either of them at 6 - I'd have both of them as lock/6 bench options but would currently favour LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)...

Does LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) get a gig as a Lock, I would nearly pick him and Rodda for there combination, Coleman's forms rubbish, Rory has tit for hands a lot of the time. It would allow us to pick a Ned (best lineout 6) with Poey and Hooper. Not what I would go in the backrow with probably McCaffery/Vanteni 6 , Poey/Hooper 7 and Isa at 8.

God it's good to have some other 6 / 8 options playing outstanding footy.

 

[Beer Baron]

Does LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) get a gig as a Lock, I would nearly pick him and Rodda for there combination, Coleman's forms rubbish, Rory has tit for hands a lot of the time. It would allow us to pick a Ned (best lineout 6) with Poey and Hooper. Not what I would go in the backrow with probably McCaffery/Vanteni 6 , Poey/Hooper 7 and Isa at 8.

God it's good to have some other 6 / 8 options playing outstanding footy.

Its even better to have a plethora of options to ignore!!!

 

[fatprop]

Does LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) get a gig as a Lock, I would nearly pick him and Rodda for there combination, Coleman's forms rubbish, Rory has tit for hands a lot of the time. It would allow us to pick a Ned (best lineout 6) with Poey and Hooper. Not what I would go in the backrow with probably McCaffery/Vanteni 6 , Poey/Hooper 7 and Isa at 8.

God it's good to have some other 6 / 8 options playing outstanding footy.

If the plan for a match is that we finish with Hooper & Pocock (or start with) the other backrower will have to be a lineout gun @ 6 or 8 to help balance out that selection

At the moment I would start with

6 Dempsey
7 Pocock
8 Isa

and finishing with

6 LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) or Jones (both have the ability to play lock)
7 Hooper
8 Dempsey or Isa

Valetini either starts or misses out, we need lock coverage without a 6/2 split (my preference)

 

[BrutalTruth]

I would go with:

4. Rodda or Coleman
5. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
6. Hooper or Valetini (lets be honest, Hooper plays like a 6)
7. Pocock (get him close to the ball ffs)
8. Isa

Jones off the bench for sure, possibly Timu for some impact if he sticky sprays his hands before he runs out.

I would have: Hanigan, Simmons, Phipps at left right out
We also could run short man lineouts.

 

[Tomikin]

If the plan for a match is that we finish with Hooper & Pocock (or start with) the other backrower will have to be a lineout gun @ 6 or 8 to help balance out that selection

At the moment I would start with

6 Dempsey
7 Pocock
8 Isa

and finishing with

6 LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) or Jones (both have the ability to play lock)
7 Hooper
8 Dempsey or Isa

Valetini either starts or misses out, we need lock coverage without a 6/2 split (my preference)

I forgot about Dempsey yep him at 6 over the other 2, how's his form ?

 

[barbarian]

I like Valetini as a prospect, but haven't seen enough from him yet. He's been OK but not outstanding.

I'm not ready to put him in a World Cup 23, though that could change if his form picks up over the season. To me he's behind Dempsey, Jones, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and maybe Hanigan.
.

 

[Dctarget]

I like Valetini as a prospect, but haven't seen enough from him yet. He's been OK but not outstanding.

I'm not ready to put him in a World Cup 23, though that could change if his form picks up over the season. To me he's behind Dempsey, Jones, LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and maybe Hanigan.
.

Agreed on Valetini, he's shown glimpses but way too green to throw into the mix just yet. Wouldn't be surprised if he was a definite come 2023, but for now my money is on Dempsey with LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) on the bench.