Wallabies 2019 Thread

[KOB1987]

Sure, but you mentioned Wales were ranked No.2, which was their ranking after the game, not at the time(i.e last Saturday).

I think players have received their fair share of criticism as well, it’s not just the coaching and selection, just look at the criticism directed at Bernard Foley.

The criticism around foley is mostly that he was selected.

 

[Derpus]

The criticism around foley is mostly that he was selected.

Fed to the wolves.

 

[Braveheart81]

Well no, thats not what i said.

Using the current Wales WR (World Rugby) Ranking of No.2 as a justification, or reason as to why we should be accepting of Wallabies loss to Wales is null point. Wales weren’t ranked No.2 last week, they have since jumped to No.2 as a direct result of the win over the Wallabies. Conversely had the Wallabies beaten Wales, the Wallabies would have leapfrogged Wales in the ranking. Regardless of Wales recent record In the 6 nations, Australia would have jumped them had Australia won.

Yes you can use World Rugby rankings as a benchmark to forecast forward, but using current world rugby rankings to justify or provide “perspective” on previous losses is a ridiculous concept, because those current world rankings are where they are today as a result of those previous wins or losses.

I feel like the tail is wagging the dog a bit here.

It's probably a better explanation to say that Wales were slight favourites against the Wallabies because they have performed better than the Wallabies over the last year or more. Over that time they have been consistently ranked above us which is a reflection of their better performance. We have spent a lot of time ranked number 6 and Wales got themselves to number 1 for a week but have hovered in that top 4 for a fair while.

I think the World Rugby rankings are a pretty good reflection of why Wales went into the game as favourites, but not by a lot (because as you said, the rankings were close enough that if we'd beaten Wales we'd have leapfrogged them in the rankings). It is clear though that they went into the match as favourites not because they were ranked higher than us but because there was a greater expectation that they would win rather than the Wallabies.

Clearly the rankings are not an excuse for losing nor should we never expect to achieve an upset. Likewise though, they are not meaningless when predicting the likely winner of a match. At a neutral venue there won't be a lot of situations where the lower ranked side will start as favourites.

 

[barbarian]

I also think we still have a hangover from the 90s and early 2000s where Wales/Ireland/Scotland were plucky underdogs rather than genuine global powers.

I'd wager most posters here (and fans in general) are of an age where we still expect to beat those sides every time, regardless of the XV we put on the field.

And maybe that's true even in a broader sense - we still think of ourselves as a rugby powerhouse, when actually we haven't really been one for 15 years, outside of a brief glimpse in 2015.

 

[Viking]

I also think we still have a hangover from the 90s and early 2000s where Wales/Ireland/Scotland were plucky underdogs rather than genuine global powers.

I'd wager most posters here (and fans in general) are of an age where we still expect to beat those sides every time, regardless of the XV we put on the field.

And maybe that's true even in a broader sense - we still think of ourselves as a rugby powerhouse, when actually we haven't really been one for 15 years, outside of a brief glimpse in 2015.

I am guilty of this. I miss those glory days

 

[molman]

I also think we still have a hangover from the 90s and early 2000s where Wales/Ireland/Scotland were plucky underdogs rather than genuine global powers.

I'd wager most posters here (and fans in general) are of an age where we still expect to beat those sides every time, regardless of the XV we put on the field.

And maybe that's true even in a broader sense - we still think of ourselves as a rugby powerhouse, when actually we haven't really been one for 15 years, outside of a brief glimpse in 2015.

Add in our Super Rugby teams being no where near as competitive in recent years and people think all the players will suddenly be world beaters, where as in fact we have a lot of players whose mental conditioning is that they have lost more in Wallabies Gold (and Super Rugby) than they have won. On the flipside, Wales have been winning everything... maybe not always pretty rugby, but they get over the line. You've got to imagine that has a big impact on the team psyche.

 

[fatprop]

Worth listening to Tirinui on the rugby ruckus podcast breakdown of the Wales match re Genia & Foley

Pretty insightful

https://www.therugbyruckus.com/podcast/
The Rugby Ruckus Podcast - 47- Wallabies washup and forecast - scapegoats and standouts

 

[Strewthcobber]

Worth listening to Tirinui on the rugby ruckus podcast breakdown of the Wales match re Genia & Foley

Pretty insightful

https://www.therugbyruckus.com/podcast/
The Rugby Ruckus Podcast - 47- Wallabies washup and forecast - scapegoats and standouts

He's got a fair bit of love for Cheika, but there aren't many better readers of a game in Australia. At least anyone who comments publically.

Pretty funny how Kimber is getting less and less sure about his status quo rugby opinions because Morgs will have a very convincing answer for why there's a lot more to think about than what seems obvious

 

[John S]

He's got a fair bit of love for Cheika, but there aren't many better readers of a game in Australia. At least anyone who comments publically.

Pretty funny how Kimber is getting less and less sure about his status quo rugby opinions because Morgs will have a very convincing answer for why there's a lot more to think about than what seems obvious

Yeah, I have noticed that recently

 

[fatprop]

He's got a fair bit of love for Cheika, but there aren't many better readers of a game in Australia. At least anyone who comments publically.

Pretty funny how Kimber is getting less and less sure about his status quo rugby opinions because Morgs will have a very convincing answer for why there's a lot more to think about than what seems obvious

Yep. it is simplistic to blame "x" when a, b & c all have to happen for "x" to work

Like Geina getting blamed for shit ball clearance, and not the 10 things the forwards have to do and not the receivers for not providing the options

 

[barbarian]

I normally subscribe to the belief that 'bad back play comes from bad forward play', but I can't cop that from this game.

The forwards were making ground every time they had the ball. For some reason our 9/10 wanted to play wide off slow ball, which sets the forwards a bloody hard task, because we inevitably get caught behind the gain line when we do that.

Like the Fiji game, it took us 45 minutes to work out we had to play tight to make yards.

It's not all on Genia, but I think the 9-10-12-13 have far more to answer for than the forwards.

 

[KOB1987]

I normally subscribe to the belief that 'bad back play comes from bad forward play', but I can't cop that from this game.

The forwards were making ground every time they had the ball. For some reason our 9/10 wanted to play wide off slow ball, which sets the forwards a bloody hard task, because we inevitably get caught behind the gain line when we do that.

Like the Fiji game, it took us 45 minutes to work out we had to play tight to make yards.

It's not all on Genia, but I think the 9-10-12-13 have far more to answer for than the forwards.

Forwards for the first 20, those blokes after that. I wonder if Cheika gives the players a bit too much reign, to 'play what's in front of them' and they're just reading it badly. I'm sure they have different tactics for different scenarios, but it seems to take them half a game to pick the right one. Perhaps they just need to be told what to do for the first 20 and then adapt after that.

 

[molman]

Worth listening to Tirinui on the rugby ruckus podcast breakdown of the Wales match re Genia & Foley

Pretty insightful

https://www.therugbyruckus.com/podcast/
The Rugby Ruckus Podcast - 47- Wallabies washup and forecast - scapegoats and standouts

Don't you wish we could have a show with serious analysis on fox. I'd love to have some refs in to discuss what the heck is going on at the breakdown. Anaylsis of what teams did in certain areas of the game... etc..

I know when I watch some european rugby I feel like I'm actually learning more about the game... the fox guy's seems to be going the way of the various league shows (which is fine if that's what you want).

 

[Derpus]

Don't you wish we could have a show with serious analysis on fox. I'd love to have some refs in to discuss what the heck is going on at the breakdown. Anaylsis of what teams did in certain areas of the game. etc..

I know when I watch some european rugby I feel like I'm actually learning more about the game. the fox guy's seems to be going the way of the various league shows (which is fine if that's what you want).

Fox is fucked. Kearns needs to be sacked.

 

[Up the Guts]

If we could just clone Justin Harrison it would be great. Nice mixture of analysis and dry humour, nor does he lose the plot like others when calls don’t go out way.

 

[Finsbury Girl]

This team could learn a lot by watching the replays of the semi & final of the 1999 edition like I did this morning.

Penalty in the oppo half, we'll take a shot at goal Sir, says Mr Eales. Won us the World Cup. Take note Whooper.

If this current mob had half the talent, nouse and ticker of those blokes we'd be right up there. What about Helmet MOTM, crook as a dog having eaten a piece of dry toast for brekky. Matt Burke cool as a cucumber slotting them from everywhere. Tuney breaking Garbage Tossers arm with his head in the final. Goof times.

 

[Derpus]

If this current mob had half the talent, nouse and ticker of those blokes we'd be right up there. What about Helmet MOTM, crook as a dog having eaten a piece of dry toast for brekky. Matt Burke cool as a cucumber slotting them from everywhere. Tuney breaking Garbage Tossers arm with his head in the final. Goof times.

They do have the talent. They just don't have a game plan or a coaching team.

 

[Derpus]

Gregan is not a great pundit eh.

 

[fatprop]

Stuart Barnes just spoke what I was thinking, are the Wobs a better backline with Kerevi off bench?

Genia
Lilo
Koro
Matt T
Kuridrani
Pet
DHP

Kerevi & Beale off the bench

 

[TSR]

Stuart Barnes just spoke what I was thinking, are the Wobs a better backline with Kerevi off bench?

Genia
Lilo
Koro
Matt T
Kuridrani
Pet
DHP

Kerevi & Beale off the bench

I’m not convinced. At best it’s shuffling deck chairs.

Fair enough - Kerevi hasn’t nailed his spot with the main concern being around his ball security and lack of distribution.

TK was MOM and so he deserves credit for pushing his case.

So if the change comes, then fair enough. I can see the justification.

But he also demonstrated through the game he doesn’t look to his supports either. And it should be acknowledged there is a big difference between Uruguay and Fiji & Wales. Large parts of our attack still looked stilted.

Anyway - good luck to him if he gets the nod.