Wallabies 2018 Spring Tour

[Slim 293]

Inherit? He took over in 2015..Inheriting rubbish would only be valid if a) the wallabies were 7th when he took over, not him taking them down to 7th over 3 years and b) if it was a squad he didn't have a say in building. Which he did, it's his squad which he has built.

It was actually 2014.........

 

[Derpus]

The Wallabies were pretty rubbish when he inherited them though. Most people expected us to bomb out of the World Cup, potentially in the group.

He almost shot himself in the foot by succeeding early. Up until this year at least, his results were about 50/50.

This is all by the by, 23 percent gets anyone sacked.

 

[Slim 293]

How can you say they aren’t good enough though? The talent is there. They HAVE beaten the all blacks, They HAVE beaten SA, Ireland, England etc These players have been instrumental in winning super rugby titles. The talent IS there and to say it isn’t is just bullshit and a cheap cop out. When this team is on song they can beat anyone. It’s about getting the right players in the right positions, coaching out a few of their flaws and getting them to execute a smart game plan

Yep......... there actually seems to be a drop down in skills when these guys play for the Wallabies.

Example # 1 - the lineout. I’m a broken record on this but we’ve had some of the best performing lineout teams in Super rugby, and those same players somehow can’t execute the basics under Cheika, and a few of those said players didn’t have the same issues under previous Wallaby coaches.

 

[southsider]

The players aren't consistent indicates they are not as good as others. All sports show that one team can win one off games. All I'm saying is it isn't entirely Cheika's fault and there are multiple factors that go into what is happening right now. He is one of them of course but I generally believe he is inherently a good coach. I just don't buy into the idea that another coach could just transform this team into a RWC winning one is what I'm saying.

Consistency by and large isn’t a natural talent though, yes some players are more gifted at consistency than others but by and large consistency comes down to training and coaching.

Remember this isn’t a Japan v SA once in a generation type occurrence, Australia is matching and beating these teams semi regularly, our schoolboy and U20’s are also mixing it with the best.

Could our talent pool improve? Yes ofc 1000% we could get into public schools and get greater numbers but our top 30 or so players are more than good enough to match it with their rivals from NZ, SA, Eng, Ire. To me at least it’s abundently clear it’s a coaching issue, not solely on Cheika, obviously the super coaches aren’t doing phenomenal at the moment but the wallabies current problems are more or less the fault of Cheika

 

[upthereds#!]

It was actually 2014...

Much worse..

 

[Froggy]

It is interesting. Despite what some on here say, Cheika's credentials as a coach were every bit as good as any of the candidates nominated by posters here, coaching Randwick, then Leinster, then the Tahs to premierships in their respective competitions, and even getting the Wallabies to an unexpected WC final. Since then it's been a steady downward trajectory. I know everyone has their theories (which is all they are) and Gnostic, of course, knew all along, but seriously, what has happened. Is it a lack of ability to change or adapt, is it his motivational skills lose impact, is it poor selection (if so, how come the success in the past)? For mine, the real regression started with the England series, and has just compounded since then.

Of course, if we were to win the WC next year, he would ride off into the sunset a hero. Pretty hard to see looking from where we are now though.

 

[Up the Guts]

Yep... there actually seems to be a drop down in skills when these guys play for the Wallabies.

Example # 1 - the lineout. I’m a broken record on this but we’ve had some of the best performing lineout teams in Super rugby, and those same players somehow can’t execute the basics under Cheika, and a few of those said players didn’t have the same issues under previous Wallaby coaches.

I was thinking the same sort of thing earlier regarding the Waratahs playing out the back vs the Wallabies. Whenever the Waratahs switched back to the rhs of the field and went out the back they usually got Folau running onto the ball in a bit of space where he could use his right foot step to cut back inside the cover defenders. Whenever the Wallabies go out the back ball receiver seems to be stagnant or moving laterally so the defence can shepherd him towards the sideline. Of course, international defensive systems are better than Super and the Wallabies don't have the luxury of Taqele making the gain line every time they go wide but I can't remember a time the Wallabies have gotten much pay from going out the back this year.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Yep... there actually seems to be a drop down in skills when these guys play for the Wallabies.

Example # 1 - the lineout. I’m a broken record on this but we’ve had some of the best performing lineout teams in Super rugby, and those same players somehow can’t execute the basics under Cheika, and a few of those said players didn’t have the same issues under previous Wallaby coaches.

Example #2. The attacking maul from a lineout. It is a weapon in the hands of a couple of the Aussie Super Rugby sides, but is a crock of shit when done by the Wallabies this year.

 

[TSR]

Not disagreeing with you at all BR - but it is hard to have a good attacking maul from a lineout when your lineout is shit to start with.

Fix the first bit and we might at least be a chance with the second.

 

[Derpus]

I was thinking the same sort of thing earlier regarding the Waratahs playing out the back vs the Wallabies. Whenever the Waratahs switched back to the rhs of the field and went out the back they usually got Folau running onto the ball in a bit of space where he could use his right foot step to cut back inside the cover defenders. Whenever the Wallabies go out the back ball receiver seems to be stagnant or moving laterally so the defence can shepherd him towards the sideline. Of course, international defensive systems are better than Super and the Wallabies don't have the luxury of Taqele making the gain line every time they go wide but I can't remember a time the Wallabies have gotten much pay from going out the back this year.

I know he can't defend, but the Wallabies could have used him this year.

 

[wamberal]

Rugby also thrived in public schools in NSW. Well, Sydney, anyway. All the government high schools played rugby when I was at school.


That was then. Things have changed, unfortunately.

 

[barbarian]

Let's shift the discussion to the RA thread, this is getting off topic.

 

[Rugrat]

Foley at 12. Is Chieka being drug tested.

 

[dru]

Foley at 12. Is Chieka being drug tested.

He did similar previously with Quade at 12. Didn’t do Quade any favours and won’t help Foley much either. Backline is likely to end up deep even though 10-12 are likely to be fluid, I suspect

Congrats to AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

Congrats to Petaia and Gordon. Tupou gets a start. Cheika without fear to rest players and shake it up.

 

[USARugger]

It is interesting. Despite what some on here say, Cheika's credentials as a coach were every bit as good as any of the candidates nominated by posters here, coaching Randwick, then Leinster, then the Tahs to premierships in their respective competitions, and even getting the Wallabies to an unexpected WC final. Since then it's been a steady downward trajectory. I know everyone has their theories (which is all they are) and Gnostic, of course, knew all along, but seriously, what has happened. Is it a lack of ability to change or adapt, is it his motivational skills lose impact, is it poor selection (if so, how come the success in the past)? For mine, the real regression started with the England series, and has just compounded since then.

Of course, if we were to win the WC next year, he would ride off into the sunset a hero. Pretty hard to see looking from where we are now though.

In terms of experience/success his CV at the time he was hired was extremely similar to Link's when he was brought on as Wallabies coach (barring 2 title-winning match losses for Link making him 1/3 in Championship games, where Cheika won 2/2 - suburban club rugby doesn't count).

Anyone saying or even trying to imply that he wasn't qualified on paper is re-envisioning history.

In other news, Foley at 12 lol. Jesus Christ why does anyone even put up with this team at all anymore.

 

[USARugger]

He did similar previously with Quade at 12. Didn’t do Quade any favours and won’t help Foley much either.

I mean he's literally played Foley at 12 for the Wallabies before now and it was a terrible decision then.

Clearly something about Foley's game must have changed dramatically since 2016 for the coaching staff to think this is somehow a good idea now. Surely.

 

[USARugger]

For mine, the real regression started with the England series, and has just compounded since then.

Of course, if we were to win the WC next year, he would ride off into the sunset a hero. Pretty hard to see looking from where we are now though.

I think the 2015 RWC was just as much a remarkable stroke of luck as it was due to how the team was playing. I felt that way then but wanted to believe, following the England series and the RWC Final it was blindingly obvious this was the case.

We landed into a pool with England and Wales but it just so happened that both were experiencing a full blown collapse at the time due to internal issues and in the case of Wales, injuries. We all remember what England looked like on the day - and has that planned 10/12 move off the ruck ever worked again against another team with a competent defensive structure/discipline?

Our defensive effort against Wales was Herculean but I think it's hard to argue that Wales did not effectively throw that game. There's zero reason that any Tier 1 test side should be able to camp out in the Opposition 22 AGAINST 13 PLAYERS and not come back with points, other than their own gross incompetence.

We all remember what happened with Scotland.

I thought the Argentina game was a good effort.

We got exposed by a good team when we played the All Blacks in the final. The England series was just a direct extension of this as we then had to play a good side 3 times in a row.

 

[Derpus]

I think the 2015 RWC was just as much a remarkable stroke of luck as it was due to how the team was playing. I felt that way then but wanted to believe, following the England series and the RWC Final it was blindingly obvious this was the case.

We landed into a pool with England and Wales but it just so happened that both were experiencing a full blown collapse at the time due to internal issues and in the case of Wales, injuries. We all remember what England looked like on the day - and has that planned 10/12 move off the ruck ever worked again against another team with a competent defensive structure/discipline?

Our defensive effort against Wales was Herculean but I think it's hard to argue that Wales did not effectively throw that game. There's zero reason that any Tier 1 test side should be able to camp out in the Opposition 22 AGAINST 13 PLAYERS and not come back with points, other than their own gross incompetence.

We all remember what happened with Scotland.

I thought the Argentina game was a good effort.

We got exposed by a good team when we played the All Blacks in the final. The England series was just a direct extension of this as we then had to play a good side 3 times in a row.

Not that keen to revise previous good form based on our current poor form. We were also very good in the lead up to the world cup with a win away in South Africa and a win at home to New Zealand.

Maybe we got a bit lucky, primarily in the Scotland game. But you also make your own luck and we played very well.

Since then, eh.

 

[USARugger]

Not that keen to revise previous good form based on our current poor form. We were also very good in the lead up to the world cup with a win away in South Africa and a win at home to New Zealand.

Maybe we got a bit lucky, primarily in the Scotland game. But you also make your own luck and we played very well.

Since then, eh.

This is a re-envisioning of history.

We got absolutely fucking utterly mullered by the All Blacks in the return game 7 days later. Winning the game before in the context of the broader season we had (which despite you stating it was good, it was not - I will reinforce this point in the following lines) in 2014-15 was nothing other than proof a broken clock can be right twice a day (and that the Wallabies have always gotten wins against the ABs going into a RWC and it's never meant anything).

We went 1-for-5 in the End of Year Tour in 2014 and only beat Wales. 1-for-4 in Europe.

Beating South Africa at home gets put into context when you remember that the same time would go on to lose to JAPAN a few months later.

We should always expect to beat Argentina (weird how this has changed for the worse even though Argentina are worse than they use to be).

After getting absolutely smashed by the ABs in Auckland our warmup game leading into the RWC were the mighty USA Eagles. What a challenge playing against college students and their Teacher's Assistants/Future Middle-Managers. Keep in mind this was years before the USA even had a low-level low-standard professional league.

You are crediting the name brand of these test nations much more heavily than you are considering the context of South Africa, Wales, and England all being at catastrophic low points in their history during the exact period where Australia looked like a passable Tier 1 test side up until they would play an actual Tier 1 test side that was not currently experiencing an internal collapse.

 

[Derpus]

This is a re-envisioning of history.

We got absolutely fucking utterly mullered by the All Blacks in the return game 7 days later. Winning the game before in the context of the broader season we had (which despite you stating it was good, it was not - I will reinforce this point in the following lines) in 2014-15 was nothing other than proof a broken clock can be right twice a day (and that the Wallabies have always gotten wins against the ABs going into a RWC and it's never meant anything).

We went 1-for-5 in the End of Year Tour in 2014 and only beat Wales. 1-for-4 in Europe.

Beating South Africa at home gets put into context when you remember that the same time would go on to lose to JAPAN a few months later.

We should always expect to beat Argentina (weird how this has changed for the worse even though Argentina are worse than they use to be).

After getting absolutely smashed by the ABs in Auckland our warmup game leading into the RWC were the mighty USA Eagles. What a challenge playing against college students and their Teacher's Assistants/Future Middle-Managers. Keep in mind this was years before the USA even had a low-level low-standard professional league.

As i recall we also played an experimental 'last chance saloon' team in that match, including Quade starting. Could be wrong.