Wallabies 2018 Spring Tour

[Derpus]

I would probably take Kepu and bring back Slipper to replace Robertson, but the question remains of who is next.

I actually think HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) is close to it. Maybe Les Makin?!?

The Smith twins aren't eligible.

Yeah i dunno. Wish we had more options.

 

[Rebels3]

I think it all depends though.

I think the entirety of English rugby would agree their players are playing too much. The UK Premiership is killing them. I think Itoje was a more dynamic player a couple of years ago when he hadn't been overplayed so much. He's now had more injuries etc.

I'm not sure where you got Beaudan Barrett's games from. Looks to me like he has played 113 Super Rugby games. Him and Foley have played a very similar number of games across the same time frame. Barrett just started in Super Rugby a couple of years earlier.

Phipps has played 118 Super Rugby games. He's only a couple of games away from Smith in the same time frame.

Coleman was a bit of a late bloomer. I don't think you can play catchup because you got into elite professionalism later.

Currently our top line players are playing a lot of rugby each year and both their games and minutes should be managed a little better.

I agree with you completely that our elite kids generally aren't playing enough games if all they do is play at school.

That was at professional level so i included Mitre 10 matches.

My bad with Phipps if incorrect, that'll teach me for looking at wiki.

I agree that players can play too much, especially French rugby. But by in large most professional players in this country don't play enough professional rugby, the NRC has gone a little way to rectify that situation, but we still aren't there.

 

[Derpus]

Could easily retort this with is there any science behind being overexposed and been a worse player?

It all comes down to feel, i personally think players can be over exposed but you are talking 30+ games for the year here, the perfect number for a player each year in my eyes is 23-28 games a season. And i don't count coming off the bench for 20mins as a proper appearance.

Clearly, the more you play the more wear there is on your body. Not everyone has the stoicism of George Smith.

 

[Rebels3]

And at the same time you have an International Northern Hemisphere player intentionally getting red carded so they don't have to show up for work the next day, because their work loads are so fucking ridiculous. Itoje was looking to be world class and is now completely burnt out and has lost all form. etc.

This is a ridiculous angle to bang on about.

If you actually look at minutes played, and this point was made by someone else pre Bledisloe with more depth and eloquence, the All Black first team play far far less minutes in the Super season than their Wallaby counterparts.

That player was an extreme case, especially one that has shown in the past a propensity to do stupid things.

Itoje is back on form, his issue was player burnout, but in that season he played almost 40 matches. Which is freaking insane

 

[Braveheart81]

That was at professional level so i included Mitre 10 matches.

Foley played a season in Japan and a couple of seasons of Aussie 7s.

I agree that our non test players weren't playing enough rugby when there was nothing to go to after Super Rugby. That has now been fixed.

Currently all our professional players are playing roughly the right amount of rugby in my view. Where we need to be focusing is on minutes played (particularly for front rowers; Tom Robertson played far too many minutes this year in Super Rugby) and the odd situation with veterans who we are trying to ensure are fresh for the RWC (Kepu).

 

[swingpass]

Can you explain exactly what "too little game time" means? And is there any science around this?

no, no science. but from watching it seems to me the lack of game smarts/awareness is a significant failing in many/most of our professional players. the on the run decision making is deficient and can only be rectified with real time exposure imo. 16 super games (+ 2 finals), 3 mid year tests, 7 RC tests and 4 EOYT =30 games maximum over nine months, and is not excessive in my opinion. i agree rest is necessary when appropriate.

 

[Rebels3]

Foley played a season in Japan and a couple of seasons of Aussie 7s.

I agree that our non test players weren't playing enough rugby when there was nothing to go to after Super Rugby. That has now been fixed.

Currently all our professional players are playing roughly the right amount of rugby in my view. Where we need to be focusing is on minutes played (particularly for front rowers; Tom Robertson played far too many minutes this year in Super Rugby) and the odd situation with veterans who we are trying to ensure are fresh for the RWC (Kepu).

I agree that things have improved, especially since the NRC but i still think a little more needs to be done. On saying that it doesn't help with the game count when kiwi teams play an extra 2/3 games a season cause they actually make finals in Super Rugby and the Mitre 10 is 4 games longer than the NRC.

It's mainly our lower to mid/younger guys range guys that simply aren't getting enough mins. They are the ones to push the standard for the higher end to be better.

Matt Philip for example has played sporadically this NRC, he also only played about 2/3 of the super season. He should be getting exposed as much as possible. Sefa has sat in Wallabies camp without playing, yet only played around half the minutes available in Super Rugby this year, many many more examples of this

 

[Derpus]

I'd be bringing a few young guns. Jordan Petaia, DP, maybe Valetini. Just to be in/around the squad. Also, Petaia can tackle which is a nice novelty.

I'd take Dempsey and give him a run off the bench if fit enough. I'd take Meakes if To'omua isn't picked and give him a run ahead of Beale against Italy.

I'd be looking at giving plenty of game time to Maddocks and Banks, we already know what Folau and DHP bring. I'd rest Genia for an entire match and give Gordon a run.

I'd even take Cooper as the bench 10, given his form seems reasonable in the NRC and he's supposedly signed for the Rebels.

I'd also like to see Naivalu given a shot as the strike winger. Before his injury he looked the goods and Koroibete is doing more harm than good at the moment.

 

[Brumby Runner]

This would be my squad:

Props: Sio, Ala'alatoa, Tupou, Slipper, Kepu (although tempted to rest Kepu and bring in Ainsley or even Harry Johnson-Holmes as a true bolter).
Hooker: Latu, Fainga'a, BPA
Lock: Coleman, Rodda, Arnold, Simmons
Backrow: Hooper, Pocock, Timu, Hanigan, Cottrell, Samu, Tui (if available)
Halfback: Genia, Phipps, Gordon
Fly half: Foley
Centres: Beale, Meakes, Hodge, Kuridrani (should be back)
Back three: Folau, DHP, Koroibete, Maddocks, Banks, Naivalu

I agree that taking Naisarani to gain experience around the squad is a good plan.

Will be close BH, if not smack on.

Looking for a bolter at prop, I think Les Makin probably has it over any of the others for Super Rugby experience these days. And he is a powerhoese at 3.

On the LH side, the best young scrummager is Harry Lloyd. I would like to see him get some development time with the Wallabies on tour.

It will be tough on Joe Powell if he misses out. In the squad and on the bench but largely overlooked for game time over the past 18 months or so. Replaced for one test by Jake Gordon who also was overlooked for game time. How do you draw a comparison between the two of them? Personally, I'd take them both in preference to Phipps but it ain't going to happen.

For twelve months or so, Cheika has run the fairytale that Beale is the backup No 10 to Foley. That must surely have been put to bed with Beale's three matches at 10 this RC. So, who will be the backup if Matt To'omua is overlooked? We are in the situation where no-one has been tried or given any encouragement by Cheika and now we are left with all very inexperienced playmakers with doubts about their ability to step up. I am assuming QC (Quade Cooper) won't get a guernsey, at least for the EOYT. I think one of the younger players will have to go on tour. My choice would be Deegan, but would not be unhappy with Stewart on his latest NRC form.

There are a couple of absolute certainties for the tour who I would not have in a fit, but I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Ignoto]

IF the Smith Brothers are going to be eligible for selection come RWC, I'd be taking them onto the tour to get them used to the set up and let them carry pads etc

 

[RugbyReg]

Hookers: Tolu Latu, Folau Fainga'a, BPA
Props: Taniela Tupou, Allan Ala'alatoa, Fereti Sa'aga, James Slipper, ??
Locks: Rory Arnold, Darcy Swain, Rob Simmons, Matt Philip
Backrow: Chris Alcock, Ben Hyne, Brynard Stander, Caleb Timu, Angus Cottrell, Jack Dempsey
Scrumhalves: Jake Gordon, Tate McDermott, Ian Prior
Flyhalves: Quade Cooper, Hamish Stewart
Centres: Billy Meakes, Duncan Paia'aua, , Matt To'omua, Karmichael Hunt, Tevita Kuridrani (is he back?)
Wings: Rod Davies, Jordan Petaia, Sefa Naivalu
Fullback: Tom Banks, Jack Maddocks

 

[dru]

Hookers: Tolu Latu, Folau Fainga'a, BPA
Props: Taniela Tupou, Allan Ala'alatoa, Fereti Sa'aga, James Slipper, ??
Locks: Rory Arnold, Darcy Swain, Rob Simmons, Matt Philip
Backrow: Chris Alcock, Ben Hyne, Brynard Stander, Caleb Timu, Angus Cottrell, Will Miller
Scrumhalves: Jake Gordon, Tate McDermott, Ian Prior
Flyhalves: Quade Cooper, Hamish Stewart
Centres: Billy Meakes, Duncan Paia'aua, , Matt To'omua, Karmichael Hunt, Tevita Kuridrani (is he back?)
Wings: Rod Davies, Jordan Petaia, Sefa Naivalu
Fullback: Tom Banks, Jack Maddocks

Wow. Stirring the pot. Can't say it isn't deserved. Any thoughts on coaching?

 

[RugbyReg]

I’ve just updated and put Jack Dempsey in for Will Miller.

Coaching? Not sure. Peter Ryan perhaps? Scott Weismanyle is a name that gets dropped a bit and he’s regarded highly it seems.

 

[dru]

Wouldn't you take a 5th prop?

 

[RugbyReg]

Wouldn't you take a 5th prop?

yeah, that's the question mark. Not sure. I'd like to leave both Kepu and Sio back here. Ainsley is probably the man most likely but if all tests are in the test window perhaps Greg Holmes. Either way there's a loose head just keeping the spot warm for JP Smith when he is (supposedly) eligible around Sept next year.

 

[RugbyReg]

Hookers: Tolu Latu, Folau Fainga'a, BPA
Props: Taniela Tupou, Allan Ala'alatoa, Fereti Sa'aga, James Slipper, ??
Locks: Rory Arnold, Darcy Swain, Rob Simmons, Matt Philip
Backrow: Chris Alcock, Ben Hyne, Brynard Stander, Caleb Timu, Angus Cottrell, Jack Dempsey
Scrumhalves: Jake Gordon, Tate McDermott, Ian Prior
Flyhalves: Quade Cooper, Hamish Stewart
Centres: Billy Meakes, Duncan Paia'aua, , Matt To'omua, Karmichael Hunt, Tevita Kuridrani (is he back?)
Wings: Rod Davies, Jordan Petaia, Sefa Naivalu
Fullback: Tom Banks, Jack Maddocks

So a "first string" team of:

15 Tom Banks
14 Jack Maddocks
13 Tevita Kuridrani
12 Matt To'omua [c]
11 Jordan Petaia
10 Quade Cooper
9 Jake Gordon
8 Angus Cottrell
7 Chris Alcock
6 Matt Philip
5 Rory Arnold
4 Rob Simmons
3 Taniela Tupou
2 Tolu Latu
1 James Slipper

16 Folau Fainga'a
17 Fereti Sa'aga
18 Allan Ala'alatoa
19 Caleb Timu
20 Jack Dempsey
21 Ian Prior
22 Billy Meakes
23 Karmichael Hunt

 

[Derpus]

Not really sold on the wingers. Not sure about the back row either. Always thought of Alcock as a poor mans Hooper.

love the front row

 

[barbarian]

I had this fight with Reg on the pod, but I'll have it here too.

I think we need wins on this tour, and if we pick a development squad we aren't going to get them.

We've only got a handful of games left until the World Cup, and while I'd like to see a few blokes given time off the bench, I wouldn't be keeping Hooper, Pocock, Foley etc away from the tour.

Most of our key players have sat out large portions of the year with injury anyway, so I don't think fatigue should be an issue.

The only person who could maybe be rested is Kepu.
.

 

[RugbyReg]

I
Most of our key players have sat out large portions of the year with injury anyway, so I don't think fatigue should be an issue.

The only person who could maybe be rested is Kepu.
.

what about form.......

 

[barbarian]

So are you suggesting our key players be rested, or dropped? Or are you just suggesting they would get tired and their play would further deteriorate?

Of the players you suggest, I'd think that most have actually logged more minutes than Hooper, Pocock and Genia this season.