Wallabies 2018 Spring Tour

[KOB1987]

Who are the smokies for the tour? Wouldn't really call him a smokie but I'd say they'll take Naisarani for development purposes, he can't get any game time though unless they organise an 'A' fixture.

I'd be sending Kepu home for a rest after the AB's test, he needs the break ahead of the RWC. I would have suggested leaving Foley behind for a a break too but I wonder if 3 games on the bench was enough to reignite him. I don't think To'omua and TPN can play the ABs test but are OK in Europe, is that right?

 

[KOB1987]

Re To'omua and TPN I just found this, sounds like they might be left out of the spring tour anyway so their workload isn't too heavy.

http://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/10/07/rugby-championship-salta-cheika-spring-tour-squad

 

[A mutterer]

Can't see any smokeys being used except to carry bags or ogle the women during the trophy presentation.

 

[Braveheart81]

This would be my squad:

Props: Sio, Ala'alatoa, Tupou, Slipper, Kepu (although tempted to rest Kepu and bring in Ainsley or even Harry Johnson-Holmes as a true bolter).
Hooker: Latu, Fainga'a, BPA
Lock: Coleman, Rodda, Arnold, Simmons
Backrow: Hooper, Pocock, Timu, Hanigan, Cottrell, Samu, Tui (if available)
Halfback: Genia, Phipps, Gordon
Fly half: Foley
Centres: Beale, Meakes, Hodge, Kuridrani (should be back)
Back three: Folau, DHP, Koroibete, Maddocks, Banks, Naivalu

I agree that taking Naisarani to gain experience around the squad is a good plan.

 

[dillyboy]

Stewart may get a call up as we really need to develop another option at flyhalf

 

[wamberal]

Year round rugby. How do they do it?

 

[liquor box]

Stewart may get a call up as we really need to develop another option at flyhalf

I think he will go but not get a game without injuries

 

[Rebels3]

Im all for giving people opportunity but i don't think it should be because someone should get a break.

There is 4 games left for the season. The majority of them played less than the 16 super rugby games on offer (+ 2 if you were a Tah) and very few of them have played (mainly started) every international game all season.

Essentially we need wins, playing our best players will improve the chance of this happening.

I might sound out of touch here but if Cam Smith, Jonathan Thurston, Paul Gallen, etc. can play 30 games of Rugby League every year for 10-15 seasons in a row, then our players can get up for this as well, league is arguably a more physically demanding game at that, at least its surely not in question if you are a back.

Im all for European rugby players complaining they are over played with their massive domestic seasons and demanding international fixture lists but Australian rugby players play the least amount of games of all playing nations.

Maro Itoje just racked up 100 games for his club, at 23...... Rob Simmons in comparison has 101 at aged 29. Is there any wonder we look like a team devod of rugby nouse.

Other comparisons

Bernard Foley 105 professional matches at 29 - Beauden Barrett 138 at 27

Nick Phipps 97 games at 29, Aaron Smith 162 at 29

Adam Coleman 62 at 26, Brodie Retallick 106 at 27

Scott Sio 65 matches at 26, Mako Vunipola 188 at 27

Add to all this our main school feeder system plays around only 10-12 games a year, its fair to say we have players entering the system having played less than 100 matches in their lifetime. Ludicrous.

Stop mollycoddling the players, send them out and build some smarts/skills/feel for the game. Get them better at lineout throwing, scrummaging, kicking, running a team, box kicking, passing, hitting a ruck, decision making, its no wonder we are behind other teams in basics because the have done it 20-40-60-100% more times in a game situation some cases. Fair enough if players haven't had a break for more than 12 months (those in Europe) or have injury concerns that will impact their ability to make the start of next season, but the rest should be rolled out.

Rant over

 

[wamberal]

Meanwhile the ABs are the most successful rugby team on the planet, and they make sure that all their players get adequate time off during the season.

You do not "toughen" players up by overexposing them. You wear them out.

 

[Rebels3]

Meanwhile the ABs are the most successful rugby team on the planet, and they make sure that all their players get adequate time off during the season.

You do not "toughen" players up by overexposing them. You wear them out.

I did think that was tough what i put in the rant originally and changed it the same time you posted, but you cannot argue with the figures behind game nouse and their players by in large playing more matches in a career.

Underexposing players creates training ground robots

People should do themselves a favour and google players from around the world and check out how much rugby they have played at a professional level, compared to our guys. It is eye opening, its also no coincidence we lack technical smarts

As they do in other sports, i'd rather we pull back on training than matches to freshen players up. Cricket in this country is a prime example of a sport that has lost its way in this regard, they are now training ground proficient but that means little come match day where they are rotated, rested, monitored but lack the game awareness to get through situations etc

 

[swingpass]

Meanwhile the ABs are the most successful rugby team on the planet, and they make sure that all their players get adequate time off during the season.

You do not "toughen" players up by overexposing them. You wear them out.

none of our domestic players are overexposed. too little game time if anything.

 

[wamberal]

none of our domestic players are overexposed. too little game time if anything.

Can you explain exactly what "too little game time" means? And is there any science around this?

 

[Rebels3]

Can you explain exactly what "too little game time" means? And is there any science around this?

Could easily retort this with is there any science behind being overexposed and been a worse player?

It all comes down to feel, i personally think players can be over exposed but you are talking 30+ games for the year here, the perfect number for a player each year in my eyes is 23-28 games a season. And i don't count coming off the bench for 20mins as a proper appearance.

 

[KOB1987]

I think we're only talking about resting one player - Kepu. He's a 32 year old front rower for a start and if I'm right has played in every game for the Wallabies and Waratahs over the last 12 months, which would satisfy your 28+ games criteria (wherever that number comes from). He's come off the bench a few times which counts for a front rower as far as I am concerned. He clearly looked exhausted at the start of the RC.

The talk of resting Foley earlier on was because he is/was out of form but if To'omua is unavailable he will be touring anyway.

EDIT: That series of games follows a full 2017 season with the Waratahs & Wallabies which was on the back of a season in Europe. So he's been unrested for at least the best part of 2 years.

 

[Derpus]

This would be my squad:

Props: Sio, Ala'alatoa, Tupou, Slipper, Kepu (although tempted to rest Kepu and bring in Ainsley or even Harry Johnson-Holmes as a true bolter).
Hooker: Latu, Fainga'a, BPA
Lock: Coleman, Rodda, Arnold, Simmons
Backrow: Hooper, Pocock, Timu, Hanigan, Cottrell, Samu, Tui (if available)
Halfback: Genia, Phipps, Gordon
Fly half: Foley
Centres: Beale, Meakes, Hodge, Kuridrani (should be back)
Back three: Folau, DHP, Koroibete, Maddocks, Banks, Naivalu

I agree that taking Naisarani to gain experience around the squad is a good plan.

Nope. Not even close to test quality. Shouldn't even be in the squad. Ainsley can't even scrummage to a Super standard.

 

[Rebels3]

I think we're only talking about resting one player - Kepu. He's a front rower for a start and if I'm right has played in every game for the Wallabies and Waratahs over the last 12 months, which would satisfy your 28+ games criteria (wherever that number comes from). He's come off the bench a few times which counts for a front rower as far as I am concerned. He clearly looked exhausted at the start of the RC.

The talk of resting Foley earlier on was because he is/was out of form but if To'omua is unavailable he will be touring anyway.

Kepu has played most of the RC off the bench (even not selected for a game from memory), missed the first 3/4 games for the Tahs. Overall hes probably played the equivalent of 16/17 matches. Fair enough if he's injured, but the past 2/3 games for the Wallabies has been his best in recent memory, let him continue this form. Build from that platform

 

[Derpus]

Year round rugby. How do they do it?

They don't, really. We end up with half the team out injured every year.

 

[Braveheart81]

People should do themselves a favour and google players from around the world and check out how much rugby they have played at a professional level, compared to our guys. It is eye opening, its also no coincidence we lack technical smarts

I think it all depends though.

I think the entirety of English rugby would agree their players are playing too much. The UK Premiership is killing them. I think Itoje was a more dynamic player a couple of years ago when he hadn't been overplayed so much. He's now had more injuries etc.

I'm not sure where you got Beaudan Barrett's games from. Looks to me like he has played 113 Super Rugby games. Him and Foley have played a very similar number of games across the same time frame. Barrett just started in Super Rugby a couple of years earlier.

Phipps has played 118 Super Rugby games. He's only a couple of games away from Smith in the same time frame.

Coleman was a bit of a late bloomer. I don't think you can play catchup because you got into elite professionalism later.

Currently our top line players are playing a lot of rugby each year and both their games and minutes should be managed a little better.

I agree with you completely that our elite kids generally aren't playing enough games if all they do is play at school.

 

[Braveheart81]

Nope. Not even close to test quality. Shouldn't even be in the squad. Ainsley can't even scrummage to a Super standard.

I would probably take Kepu and bring back Slipper to replace Robertson, but the question remains of who is next.

I actually think HJH (Harry Johnson-Holmes) is close to it. Maybe Les Makin?!?

The Smith twins aren't eligible.

 

[Derpus]

Im all for giving people opportunity but i don't think it should be because someone should get a break.

There is 4 games left for the season. The majority of them played less than the 16 super rugby games on offer (+ 2 if you were a Tah) and very few of them have played (mainly started) every international game all season.

Essentially we need wins, playing our best players will improve the chance of this happening.

I might sound out of touch here but if Cam Smith, Jonathan Thurston, Paul Gallen, etc. can play 30 games of Rugby League every year for 10-15 seasons in a row, then our players can get up for this as well, league is arguably a more physically demanding game at that, at least its surely not in question if you are a back.

Im all for European rugby players complaining they are over played with their massive domestic seasons and demanding international fixture lists but Australian rugby players play the least amount of games of all playing nations.

Maro Itoje just racked up 100 games for his club, at 23.. Rob Simmons in comparison has 101 at aged 29. Is there any wonder we look like a team devod of rugby nouse.

Other comparisons

Bernard Foley 105 professional matches at 29 - Beauden Barrett 138 at 27

Nick Phipps 97 games at 29, Aaron Smith 162 at 29

Adam Coleman 62 at 26, Brodie Retallick 106 at 27

Scott Sio 65 matches at 26, Mako Vunipola 188 at 27

Add to all this our main school feeder system plays around only 10-12 games a year, its fair to say we have players entering the system having played less than 100 matches in their lifetime. Ludicrous.

Stop mollycoddling the players, send them out and build some smarts/skills/feel for the game. Get them better at lineout throwing, scrummaging, kicking, running a team, box kicking, passing, hitting a ruck, decision making, its no wonder we are behind other teams in basics because the have done it 20-40-60-100% more times in a game situation some cases. Fair enough if players haven't had a break for more than 12 months (those in Europe) or have injury concerns that will impact their ability to make the start of next season, but the rest should be rolled out.

Rant over

And at the same time you have an International Northern Hemisphere player intentionally getting red carded so they don't have to show up for work the next day, because their work loads are so fucking ridiculous. Itoje was looking to be world class and is now completely burnt out and has lost all form. etc.

This is a ridiculous angle to bang on about.

If you actually look at minutes played, and this point was made by someone else pre Bledisloe with more depth and eloquence, the All Black first team play far far less minutes in the Super season than their Wallaby counterparts.