Wales v Australia, Sunday 21st 4.30 am ADST.

[boyo]

Being a ref' is often a thankless task; subject to armchair experts, keyboard warriors, etc. who don't know the LAWS of the game (but like to think that they do).
Ref's are not automatons.
It often amazes me that some of their harshest critics would never dream of taking up the whistle, but would rather carp from the sideline.

 

[kiap]

I said on another page here that I’d like to see the 20 minute red for that situation and a full red (no replacement) for absolute no-no’s; gouging, biting, aggression towards official, etc.

No.

OK, your no-no list needs extra justice dispensed. That's fine, but your method is bad.

As the Old Testament said, or maybe it was Quentin Tarantino ...

I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me.

But that's just punishing the innocent; the poor sinless people who bought their tickets and online subscriptions.

Your perp has already been banished from the match never to return. End his career later, by all means, and confiscate his lamborghini, ... but don't punish the innocents, ffs.

That's the idea of the 20 minute red. To stop putting referees in impossible situations where they have to administer summary justice that kills the game and harms four generations of children.

Will no one think of the children?

 

[barbarian]

That's the prime example of a game where you have to almost ignore the result - I've seen us play far worse and win games in the past.

We played with great skill and endeavour for all 80 minutes, and so did Wales. It was a really good game of rugby. Under adversity we stood up, as we did against France with 14 earlier this year. You can't fault the character of this team.

Rob Leota continues to improve, and I thought Paisami was very good too. Our lineout was the best it's been all season. Kurtley Beale showed that his international career may well not be over. Our option taking in the Wales 22 was really good - our first try was a peach from top to tail.

And yet, in the end, the bounce of the ball didn't go our way. That happens. We've been blessed by good fortune a few times this year, and the rugby karma gods were always going to come back to balance the ledger at some point.

In regards to the officials, the focus has been on the wrong calls. The red card was fine, the knock down try was a rare interpretation but you can say it's the correct one if you want to. KB (Kurtley Beale)'s yellow was a 50/50 too. They all went against us, which is unfortunate.

But the call that kills me is the turnover we conceded on a driving maul in the second half as we attacked the Wales line. Here is a video of it I took:

It's surely a penalty, with a case for a YC and PT. Instead we turn the ball over. It's a genuine shocker, IMO.

 

[Wilson]

That's the prime example of a game where you have to almost ignore the result - I've seen us play far worse and win games in the past.

We played with great skill and endeavour for all 80 minutes, and so did Wales. It was a really good game of rugby. Under adversity we stood up, as we did against France with 14 earlier this year. You can't fault the character of this team.

Rob Leota continues to improve, and I thought Paisami was very good too. Our lineout was the best it's been all season. Kurtley Beale showed that his international career may well not be over. Our option taking in the Wales 22 was really good - our first try was a peach from top to tail.

And yet, in the end, the bounce of the ball didn't go our way. That happens. We've been blessed by good fortune a few times this year, and the rugby karma gods were always going to come back to balance the ledger at some point.

In regards to the officials, the focus has been on the wrong calls. The red card was fine, the knock down try was a rare interpretation but you can say it's the correct one if you want to. KB (Kurtley Beale)'s yellow was a 50/50 too. They all went against us, which is unfortunate.

But the call that kills me is the turnover we conceded on a driving maul in the second half as we attacked the Wales line. Here is a video of it I took:

It's surely a penalty, with a case for a YC and PT. Instead we turn the ball over. It's a genuine shocker, IMO.

Yeah, there was a major issue with the ref not making big calls as they happened and relying on the TMO to intervene - it was the same for the Tom Wright collar tackle that was a clear high but let go without even advantage being called until a stoppage. With the way replays are being driven by home town producers that style is always going to hurt the away team.

That one in particular seemed horrendous with the ref right there to see it all, to the point that it makes me question my understanding of the maul rules.

 

[Tex]

The knock down no-call was bullshit. You don't need a protractor to determine that the defending player intentionally swatted a pass down and killed the attack.

 

[RugbyReg]

The knock down no-call was bullshit. You don't need a protractor to determine that the defending player intentionally swatted a pass down and killed the attack.

no law about deliberate knock down. Just knock forward. Which is a little harder to argue here

 

[eastman]

It's surely a penalty, with a case for a YC and PT. Instead we turn the ball over. It's a genuine shocker, IMO.

The clip just shows how stupidly complex rugby can be - I think I've got a fairly decent understanding of the rules and I can't say whether that's a penalty or just play on.

What's the infringement here? Is that the Wales player with the white head-strapping is offside (never retreats to back of maul) when he is involved in stopping Skelton who detaches from the maul? If he hadn't gotten involved it would have been play on right?

 

[barbarian]

The clip just shows how stupidly complex rugby can be - I think I've got a fairly decent understanding of the rules and I can't say whether that's a penalty or just play on.

What's the infringement here? Is that the Wales player with the white head-strapping is offside (never retreats to back of maul) when he is involved in stopping Skelton who detaches from the maul? If he hadn't gotten involved it would have been play on right?

He unbinds from the maul, before grabbing Fainga'a from behind and pulling him out of the maul. Offside, surely.

 

[eastman]

Based on my limited knowledge of the rules I don’t think that going to ground by yourself is against the rules of Union. The offside rule created after the England Italy game a few years back also helps as does the requirement that a ball be on the ground for a ruck to commence it doesn’t require a tackle to first take place. A yield tackle is illegal in league but I don’t think it’s currently illegal in Union.

I think the issue is that the voluntary tackle is more likely to lead to a supporting player losing his feet and sealing off the ball, or alternately, any 50/50 call (e.g. hands in the ruck) is going against the attacker as the referee rewards intent.

 

[eastman]

He unbinds from the maul, before grabbing Fainga'a from behind and pulling him out of the maul. Offside, surely.

Is there an argument that he unbinds exactly as Fainga'a detaches to make the tackle?

 

[barbarian]

Is there an argument that he unbinds exactly as Fainga'a detaches to make the tackle?

No. At 7 seconds Fainga'a is still bound, and the reason he unbinds is the tackle from the Wales player.

 

[Rugby Head]

On a bright note, was very impressed with the French contingent.

Latu- was pulled early but definitely an upgrade on FF (Folau Fainga'a) (Assuming this was a tactical decision in case we needed him back on the field).
Arnold- Great at set piece and lifted his work rate across the park
Beale- Some great touches but some errors which are in his DNA. He is best suited to the bench and can provide genuine spark
Skelton- Much more assertive this game, some good carries and an important turnover with minutes to spare, shame we couldn't D up to ice the game

Looking forward to seeing these guys + Quade/ Kerevi in the mix next year.

 

[emuarse]

I said on another page here that I’d like to see the 20 minute red for that situation and a full red (no replacement) for absolute no-no’s; gouging, biting, aggression towards official, etc.

Can't agree with the second part of your suggestion for 2 reasons:
1. the sent off player will be suspended from playing anywhere from 2 weeks to life, depending on the severity of his offence.
2. why should the other 14 players (23 if you include the whole squad) and the team's fans have to be punished for one players actions.

Even more so when the ref & TMO could give the wrong decision e.g. red card rather than a yellow.
Its just bullshit when a player gets red carded very early in a game that denies the public an opportunity to enjoy a much anticipated contest.
It should be 20 minutes always & I'm hopeful this Valetini situation will change the ruling.

 

[Tex]

no law about deliberate knock down. Just knock forward. Which is a little harder to argue here

Fair shout. What is frustrating for me is the various interpretation of intent and outcome.

Valetini had no intent to clash heads, but protocol demands a red card (which I think was correct).

Beale had no intent to swat the ball down, but his tackle action was deemed unnatural as his arms went wide, the ball went forward and he spent 10 mins on the sideline.

The Welsh fella had intent to swat the ball down, but it went at ~90 degrees to the turf so it's play on. Frustrating!

 

[RugbyReg]

Fair shout. What is frustrating for me is the various interpretation of intent and outcome.

Valetini had no intent to clash heads, but protocol demands a red card (which I think was correct).

Beale had no intent to swat the ball down, but his tackle action was deemed unnatural as his arms went wide, the ball went forward and he spent 10 mins on the sideline.

The Welsh fella had intent to swat the ball down, but it went at ~90 degrees to the turf so it's play on. Frustrating!

Valetini and every international rugby player should now the law interpretation for high tackles. Running in from some distance and running in high was always fraught with danger. The red card was deserved unfortunately.

The Beale knock down was intent. He was being cheeky. He knew completely what he was doing. Tried to get away with swinging his arm wide in the tackle. I would argue this type of professional foul is exactly why World Rugby have this rule. It was cynical and deserved. I maintain the Welsh attempt was less so. The Welshmen was side on and I think his action was raking the ball back to try to get it. Beale just wanted to swat it away.

 

[Bandar]

Yeah, there was a major issue with the ref not making big calls as they happened and relying on the TMO to intervene - it was the same for the Tom Wright collar tackle that was a clear high but let go without even advantage being called until a stoppage. With the way replays are being driven by home town producers that style is always going to hurt the away team.

That one in particular seemed horrendous with the ref right there to see it all, to the point that it makes me question my understanding of the maul rules.

I'm very confused as to why the referee pulled up play in the 17th minute to give us a penalty. Sure we got the 3 points but could easily have been 5 or 7

 

[Bandar]

I maintain the Welsh attempt was less so. The Welshmen was side on and I think his action was raking the ball back to try to get it.

Can't agree here - he just tried to stop the pass exactly the same as Beale without also making a tackle. luckily for him it went pretty much straight down

 

[KOB1987]

Valetini and every international rugby player should now the law interpretation for high tackles. Running in from some distance and running in high was always fraught with danger. The red card was deserved unfortunately.

The Beale knock down was intent. He was being cheeky. He knew completely what he was doing. Tried to get away with swinging his arm wide in the tackle. I would argue this type of professional foul is exactly why World Rugby have this rule. It was cynical and deserved. I maintain the Welsh attempt was less so. The Welshmen was side on and I think his action was raking the ball back to try to get it. Beale just wanted to swat it away.

I've found a new avatar for you Reg

 

[RugbyReg]

I've found a new avatar for you Reg

impartiality can be a curse

 

[barbarian]

How dare you explain the refs decisions Reg you Welsh bastard. Go and eat some leeks and ride a dragon and let the rest of us attack the referee en masse, please.