VRU 2013

[en_force_er]

Endeavour will be next to go. I'm surprised they weren't relegated with, or even instead of Boroondara. They have done well to grow their club, but results and resources wise, it's very hard to argue for them being a Premier club.

University are at real risk if they can't get a junior club together. If they need to start a Parkville or North Melbourne RFC then so be it, it should be relatively well served by a growing inner north. If they can't do that then their situation should be treated no differently to Monash.

Box Hill, and to a lesser extent Footscray, are well-resourced clubs that could stick it out until their situations improve.

[/quote]

Endeavour (and Wyndham too) are THE junior clubs in Victoria. They are dominant and have been over quite a period mostly due to the fact they've always focused their limited resources on the youngins. Considering they're in population growth areas as well I'd be a shame for them to come to nothing.

There's a 3rd Melbourne Uni field that they played at a bit during the bad stages of the drought and it's often used for the over 35s league. It's right in an inner North/West suburban area and it'd be magic to have a junior club there. Don't quite remember the location though.

 

[pablo]

Endeavour will be next to go. I'm surprised they weren't relegated with, or even instead of Boroondara. They have done well to grow their club, but results and resources wise, it's very hard to argue for them being a Premier club.

University are at real risk if they can't get a junior club together. If they need to start a Parkville or North Melbourne RFC then so be it, it should be relatively well served by a growing inner north. If they can't do that then their situation should be treated no differently to Monash.

Box Hill, and to a lesser extent Footscray, are well-resourced clubs that could stick it out until their situations improve.

[/quote]

Not really done your homework there. Endeavour are the strongest junior club going around when you sit and look at it. They win a fair few junior flags or come very close. They have a massive growth corridor and there are a lot of prospects that come out of there. Sure they struggle at senior level some times (I acknowledge they have beaten some handy teams and struggled other times), but with only a year or two in the top comp there was never an expectation that they would win the majority of their games straight up. They have built well and their emphasis has been on building the youth, hoping that they don't lose interest or go elsewhere.

IMO they must have put together a decent proposal to the VRU and implemented some of the plans they had, otherswise they might have been a chance of dropping down - thing is they are too important for the game here in Victoria and their standing as a complete club (i.e. strong juniors and building seniors) has kept them in the top grade and deservedly so!

 

[elementfreak]

Not really done your homework there. Endeavour are the strongest junior club going around when you sit and look at it. They win a fair few junior flags or come very close. They have a massive growth corridor and there are a lot of prospects that come out of there. Sure they struggle at senior level some times (I acknowledge they have beaten some handy teams and struggled other times), but with only a year or two in the top comp there was never an expectation that they would win the majority of their games straight up. They have built well and their emphasis has been on building the youth, hoping that they don't lose interest or go elsewhere.

IMO they must have put together a decent proposal to the VRU and implemented some of the plans they had, otherswise they might have been a chance of dropping down - thing is they are too important for the game here in Victoria and their standing as a complete club (i.e. strong juniors and building seniors) has kept them in the top grade and deservedly so!

As long as their seniors continues to grow they will do well. A couple of years ago I can remember watching 15 blokes play for the 3rds, then play for the 2nds and had 10 of them play for the 1sts.

Their 18s won the flag this year, beating the best team from the season in the final, their colts pushed Uni close in the final, their 16s made the final. If they can get their colts to step up and play seniors then they will do very well.

 

[FiveStarStu]

Not really done your homework there. Endeavour are the strongest junior club going around when you sit and look at it. They win a fair few junior flags or come very close. They have a massive growth corridor and there are a lot of prospects that come out of there. Sure they struggle at senior level some times (I acknowledge they have beaten some handy teams and struggled other times), but with only a year or two in the top comp there was never an expectation that they would win the majority of their games straight up. They have built well and their emphasis has been on building the youth, hoping that they don't lose interest or go elsewhere.

IMO they must have put together a decent proposal to the VRU and implemented some of the plans they had, otherswise they might have been a chance of dropping down - thing is they are too important for the game here in Victoria and their standing as a complete club (i.e. strong juniors and building seniors) has kept them in the top grade and deservedly so!

I'm very well aware they're a strong junior club, I've reffed their U14 and U16 several times and their clash jersey is the state jersey

I guess it comes down to whether clubs should be 'built' in Premier division, or whether Premier should involve complete clubs while Div 2 and lower clubs are given the chance to get to that level in a more equitable league.

It's for this reason that I think a 6-team Premier comp has merit. That's a competition that we could expect Rebels to play in. Yes, there will be limited talent drain, but that forces clubs to develop on a holistic level, rather than relying on individuals to scrape together results.

If we had three 6-team club championships, with promotion and relegation, I think that'd be a good competition.

 

[en_force_er]

There's plenty of E.Hills boys running around in Prems and plenty of them aren't playing for Endeavour. They were always going to need a few years to hold onto their playing stocks.

In the past they grew to accept the fact that talented juniors would look elsewhere to the Premier grade clubs and it's hard to get those players back because they've grown attached to their new clubs.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm very well aware they're a strong junior club, I've reffed their U14 and U16 several times and their clash jersey is the state jersey

I guess it comes down to whether clubs should be 'built' in Premier division, or whether Premier should involve complete clubs while Div 2 and lower clubs are given the chance to get to that level in a more equitable league.

It's for this reason that I think a 6-team Premier comp has merit. That's a competition that we could expect Rebels to play in. Yes, there will be limited talent drain, but that forces clubs to develop on a holistic level, rather than relying on individuals to scrape together results.

If we had three 6-team club championships, with promotion and relegation, I think that'd be a good competition.

That could be double edged sword with the best talent tending to flow directly into certain clubs. On the flipside of that. It could force certain clubs to refocus their efforts at the youth levels. That said, setting up an elite level to funnel the elite talent would help elevate Victorian senior Rugby.

 

[pablo]

I'm very well aware they're a strong junior club, I've reffed their U14 and U16 several times and their clash jersey is the state jersey

I guess it comes down to whether clubs should be 'built' in Premier division, or whether Premier should involve complete clubs while Div 2 and lower clubs are given the chance to get to that level in a more equitable league.

It's for this reason that I think a 6-team Premier comp has merit. That's a competition that we could expect Rebels to play in. Yes, there will be limited talent drain, but that forces clubs to develop on a holistic level, rather than relying on individuals to scrape together results.

If we had three 6-team club championships, with promotion and relegation, I think that'd be a good competition.

You will never be able to "build" a club in div 2, what will happen is (as has been happening at EH for some time and en_force_er points out) that the decent EH lads will go elsewhere and ply their rugby trade - to put them back into div 2 and say "oh well build the club and see us in 2 years" is rubbish, and it will never happen as the VRU obviously see the club as a hot bed of juniors that will hopefully translate into quality seniors.

As for a 6 team comp, it won't happen. Maybe 8 is the best we can get to, but all a 6 team comp is going to do is widen the gap by alienating the fringe clubs and letting the stronger clubs get a lot stronger. That's definitely not in the best interest of the rugby community in Victoria and the Rebels and VRU know this. It would also mean that under the current criteria 4 teams would be dropped, so HYPOTHETICALLY joining Boroondara would be Box Hill, Endeavour and Uni. That leaves no club playing premier rugby in the north, east or south east of the city.....see where I am going here? If you want to grow the game, spread it far and wide (as is the VRU's aim) and capture those players that live in Narre Warren/Glenroy/Ringwood then having them travel 40+ minutes to train twice a week and then potentially further on the weekends...surely we can all realise that you need clubs in those areas.

What we have to realise is that what is done now for 2013 is done, I hate byes but it gives players a rest and also concentrates the competition one notch. The players at Boroondara that want to play Premier rugby will go elsewhere, guaranteed...but I do hope that enough players stick by the club so that it does stay competitive and has the chance to prove itself and fight for a 10 team competition again (yes I know this negates my opening remark about building in div 2).

 

[elementfreak]

You will never be able to "build" a club in div 2, what will happen is (as has been happening at EH for some time and en_force_er points out) that the decent EH lads will go elsewhere and ply their rugby trade - to put them back into div 2 and say "oh well build the club and see us in 2 years" is rubbish, and it will never happen as the VRU obviously see the club as a hot bed of juniors that will hopefully translate into quality seniors.

As for a 6 team comp, it won't happen. Maybe 8 is the best we can get to, but all a 6 team comp is going to do is widen the gap by alienating the fringe clubs and letting the stronger clubs get a lot stronger.

An 8 team comp would work well IMO, it would mean that div 2 would have 10 clubs with 6 of those being strong (Northern, Geelong, Wyndham and Eltham plus the 2 from Premier) and it would make for some good games of rugby. I saw the Northern v Eltham games this year and they were cracking games to watch.

 

[elementfreak]

https://assets.imgstg.com/assets/co...Division Draft Draw v1 ast at 19 Nov docx.pdf

Premier grade draw for next year, well at least the 1st draft.

 

[en_force_er]

An 8 team comp would work well IMO, it would mean that div 2 would have 10 clubs with 6 of those being strong (Northern, Geelong, Wyndham and Eltham plus the 2 from Premier) and it would make for some good games of rugby. I saw the Northern v Eltham games this year and they were cracking games to watch.

Absolutely, a really strong 2nd division would produce some good games they would probably sit somewhere in quality between Prems 1 and Prems 2.

I think the best option is having an 8 club premier division of 3 grades, a 6 club/2 grade 2nd division (Northern, Geelong, Wyndham and Eltham plus the 2 from Premier, like you said), and a one grade 3rd and 4th division made up of the extra odds and ends (the 1 team clubs, the Prems 4th grade, and the 2nd division 3rd grades, etc).

This model would allow for promotion/relegation (even if it's done qualitatively rather than quantitatively) and the growth/shrinking of clubs.

 

[FiveStarStu]

I respectfully disagree, kronic. Metro Melbourne rugby needs a restructure in order to effectively split the playing pool. On their own, Box Hill or Boroondara would struggle to attract talent that sees premierships readily available at Unicorns. Together, they may finally gain the strength to become a real power.

If we stick with 3 strong metro clubs in Melb, Quins and PH, Boroondara and Box Hill will continue to suffer. By joining forces, not only will Kiwi stop the immediate player drain they risked by being relegated, but they and Hill will have a fighting chance in the long term, and will no doubt start bringing in some silver.

 

[en_force_er]

For those who aren't subscribed to the facebook page this emerged tonight from the Rebel Army (important big bolded for your convenience):

By now, most of you would be aware that the club has been relegated to Second Division for the 2013 season. We have presented numerous arguments to the VRU, its board and the Presidents of the other clubs over the last few months to no effect. The VRU claims that this decision is the end result of a review that expressed the desire to reduce the number of clubs in Premier 1 from ten to eight, but ended in reducing it to nine clubs and a bye in Premier 1 every week. I am not sure how this improves the standard of rugby in Melbourne, but I realise that we could argue the merits of this decision forever without gaining much for BRUFC in the short or long term.

While this decision does not seem to be fair or equitable, BRUFC needs to move ahead with an approach that is in the best interests of the long-term viability of the club and its impressive history. As a result, a special committee meeting was convened to discuss our options. In addition, the club approached Box Hill to sound out their receptiveness to the idea of a merger between Boroondara and Box Hill.

Initial reaction at both clubs has been positive and we will be having further discussions about progressing this. While a merger cannot be guaranteed until everything is signed, sealed and delivered, I am confident that with the right attitudes, will and spirit, this merger can occur and bring ongoing success to the merged club.

Committee members, players and supporters canvassed to date agree that there are a number of factors that make this approach a sensible option. These are:

1. Change in demographics – 20 to 30 years ago, new arrivals to Melbourne might have been able to afford to live in Hawthorn or the eastern suburbs, or in the vicinity surrounding them. The house price increases over the last 15 years have made this possibility more remote, and newcomers to Melbourne are increasingly being forced to live in the outskirts.
2. Density of clubs in the local vicinity - There is a heavy density of clubs in the area - with Power House, Melbourne, Harlequins, Moorabbin, Box Hill and Boroondara within reasonable proximity to each other, and not many in premier 1 in the outer suburbs. That is 6 out of the 10 Premier 1 clubs in 2012, with only Endeavour Hills, Melbourne University, Footscray and Southern Districts extending the reach of Rugby to other regions.
3. Reduced number of players in the local area - Competition for players is strong within this surrounding area, and we need to increase our catchment area to help develop rugby in the region. Competition for players is not going to reduce in future years. BRUFC has felt the impact of this factor for some years. It has not been helped by having the club constantly under review for our spot in Premier 1 for the last 6 to 8 years at least. This has affected our ability to recruit players, many being told by other clubs we are going to be relegated.
4. Development of rugby - In the interest of taking a long term view on the development of rugby, a combined force of committee, players and juniors will position a merged club with much greater prospects of success and local junior development of rugby..
5. A stronger club to compete with Melbourne, Harlequins etc. – it is quite likely that to continue as we are, both Box Hill and Boroondara will continue to face the danger of relegation or even extinction. One strong club is a better force than two struggling clubs.

There are a number of other factors to take into account, but from here the two clubs will form a working party to address the remaining issues of Club name, jersey colours, playing grounds, junior structures etc. If all conditions satisfy both clubs then it is likely that the merger will proceed.

Players especially should take this into account before making decisions about their playing future for 2013. Players should also be aware that anyone who is not financial with Boroondara RUFC for 2012 will not be released to play with any other club until they are financial – that is fully paid up for their 2012 player subs. This is a condition that all clubs place on approval of transfers to any other club, and is a condition required by the VRU.

It would seem Boroondara and Box Hill are well on the way to creating a merged senior entity (which is a little strange as they're probably 20-35 minutes drive from one another).

The Rebel Army then had this to say on facebook

Travis: This is not confirmed merger, just a potential option. Booroondara will (most probably) have discussions with multiple clubs and the VRU regarding this coming season, and into future seasons to find the best option for their community. Booroondara are currently scheduled to play 2013 as Div 2 and Box Hill to play Premier, as seperate entities.

I don't know what to make of this second post as the first sounded like everything was sorted but the minor details.

 

[en_force_er]

What would happen if this merger took place-

Scenario 1: In an ideal world:
The most sensible thing to do would be to create an entity called "Eastern Suburbs RUFC" (real original I know).

This club would play out of Box Hill (which has much better resources) but perhaps train our of Boroondara on the Tuesday.

The 4 Easts Prems teams would be made up of Boroondara and Box Hill 1s and 2s players and would be competitive in all grades.

Since BH and Boroondara's 3s were semi-autonomous anyway (being mostly social non/occasional trainers) both of these teams would compete under their orgininal club name and strip in Division 2B (where they'd be more competitive anyway).

The junior clubs would remain independent unless there were weak numbers in a particular age group in the interest of developing the maximum number of players for the senior club.

The other plus is this would no doubt introduce another Colts team to a lack luster league.

Scenario 2: In reality:
The clubs will probably merge entirely as this in the cleanest way possible, playing out of Box Hill as they have the better fields.

The new merger club would have a strong first year, two Prems 1 sides would make a mean first and second grade.

But overtime the club wouldn't have the money to sustain a heap of ambitious individuals who were probably at weaker clubs to begin with because they wanted 1sts gametime.

The club would virtually become what Box Hill is now under a different name and Boroondara would cease to exist.

 

[en_force_er]

I wouldn't mind Scenario 1, I'd be pretty decent. I'd also be great if Norths and Eltham decided to merge and play Prems but what happens to 2nd Div from here?

I don't have the answer and perhaps it's a dangerous path to tread. Thoughts KevinO?

 

[pablo]

I wouldn't mind Scenario 1, I'd be pretty decent. I'd also be great if Norths and Eltham decided to merge and play Prems but what happens to 2nd Div from here?

I don't have the answer either and perhaps it's a dangerous path to tread. Thoughts KevinO?

The post on Facebook does sound like it is a done deal, but then you read the add on and it gets a bit desperate. Boroondara want to play P1 rugby that's clear, but selling out their identity and merging with the club that just survived the drop isn't the answer in my eyes. If they are going to do something they had better be quick, players will go and I reckon some have started training elsewhere. The other thing is that the VRU will want the competitions sorted before xmas.

 

[en_force_er]

The post on Facebook does sound like it is a done deal, but then you read the add on and it gets a bit desperate. Boroondara want to play P1 rugby that's clear, but selling out their identity and merging with the club that just survived the drop isn't the answer in my eyes. If they are going to do something they had better be quick, players will go and I reckon some have started training elsewhere. The other thing is that the VRU will want the competitions sorted before xmas.

Uni-Norths (ACT), Southern Districts (Sydney), Wests-Tigers (League), and St.George Illawara (League) all come to mind as successful mergers (some are better examples than others).

I think in the short term joining the two clubs is a good idea, call them Easts and take Box Hill's strip and a hybrid logo (Eastern Suburb teams in Syd, Bris, and ACT all play in basically BH's strip). Keep both clubs alive independently for feeders sake (they can have juniors and a social team playing 2b). Plaster old pictures of the clubs on all the walls everywhere and create a club song that acknowledges the original clubs to be sung after games. The clubs are reasonably similar culturally anyway, just BH has better real estate.

I wouldn't worry about fixuring, Div 1 won't change and Division 2 is always on shakey ground till a couple of weeks before the season because clubs promise too much or can't get the coaches behind the players etc. I don't think fixturing is a huge factor for another month or two yet, losing players because of uncertainty on the other hand is.

 

[KevinO]

I wouldn't mind Scenario 1, I'd be pretty decent. I'd also be great if Norths and Eltham decided to merge and play Prems but what happens to 2nd Div from here?

I don't have the answer and perhaps it's a dangerous path to tread. Thoughts KevinO?

Merger with Box Hill they will lose half there players just on location and travel time. Boroondara was the easiest club for myself and a few friends to get to after work for training, and on match days. I live in the Western Surburbs as many of Boroondara's players do and having the direct access to the Monash off the Westgate made life easy.

Although Footscray is in the West it's not the easiest location to get to.

I think that it's really a last resort to have a club merge and lose all it's history, they should be working on getting the VRU to change the system to have promotion relergation and battle it out in Division 2 for the season with the option of promotion if they win the title.

 

[en_force_er]

Merger with Box Hill they will lose half there players just on location and travel time. Boroondara was the easiest club for myself and a few friends to get to after work for training, and on match days. I live in the Western Surburbs as many of Boroondara's players do and having the direct access to the Monash off the Westgate made life easy.

Although Footscray is in the West it's not the easiest location to get to.

I think that it's really a last resort to have a club merge and lose all it's history, they should be working on getting the VRU to change the system to have promotion relegation and battle it out in Division 2 for the season with the option of promotion if they win the title.

I don't understand the notion of "losing history". Surely you "merge" history.

Not being accessible to the west is a real issue but the reality is Boroondara obviously haven't been able to get enough players from there to be competitive across the grades.

 

[kronic]

Can't see the local council allowing them to keep the ground purely for training.

I wouldn't mind Scenario 1, I'd be pretty decent. I'd also be great if Norths and Eltham decided to merge and play Prems but what happens to 2nd Div from here?

Will never happen.

Northern have a partnership with Uni at present also.

 

[kronic]

Away from the doom and gloom, this is great news.

Don't know if it's complete clubs per say:

RUCKING, mauling, flankers, scrums and line-outs.

These aren't terms that often arise during a pub conversation in north-west Victoria, but that could soon change, with rugby union clubs about to be set up in Robinvale and Mildura.

Victorian Rugby Union (VRU) officials and a contingent of Melbourne Rebels players visited Robinvale earlier this month to announce the expansion of a program designed to provide an outlet for Aboriginal and Pacific Islander youths.

After being trialled in the Dandenong and Casey areas, VRU boss Ross Oakley — ex-chief executive officer of the AFL — said the program had been successful in providing an engaging outlet for youth and encouraging them to contribute positively in a team environment.

"It aims to get them off the streets and out of the shopping malls," he said.

"The next step is to engage them in club life."

For more on this story see Friday's edition of The Guardian (November 30, 2012).

http://www.theguardian.com.au/story/1154518/rugby-union-arrives-in-the-region/?cs=1648

There are currently League clubs in those two towns, they are part of a NSW league though.