VRU 2012

[en_force_er]

I think I'm starting to sound like a bitter Vic rugger old boy, which I'm not. Though I do want to see our state head in the right direction, I think we are but any amateur sporting organisation has a millions things to do and there's always lots to discuss.

 

[pablo]

I think the Pillar cup was silly and it makes more sense to just have less Prems clubs. This is obviously the direction Vic rugger is heading and I think it's the right one.

As for thejnr regional comp it's a step in the right direction but their existence is nowhere near well publicised enough, nor are any of the juniour sides involved consulted. I personally am involved in juniour rugby (and have been for at least 3 years) and have never been spoken to about the comp.

I haven't been told to tell the boys about it, haven't been asked who'd be handy to have in the team, and certainly haven't been asked for feedback on how the program is going.

Less clubs - who would you see dropping out?? Going to be a hard call when 2 clubs were brought up to Prem 1 as recognition of their recent development and building strong pathways for the future...

I'd imagine that the VRU informs the clubs, maybe it just isn't passed on from there...? In it's 1st year it was done very quickly and without too much thought or communication, but it is only 2 seasons old so surely Ty is learning from his mistakes of the past and this comp ismoving in the right direction!?!?!

 

[en_force_er]

Less clubs - who would you see dropping out?? Going to be a hard call when 2 clubs were brought up to Prem 1 as recognition of their recent development and building strong pathways for the future...

I'd imagine that the VRU informs the clubs, maybe it just isn't passed on from there...? In it's 1st year it was done very quickly and without too much thought or communication, but it is only 2 seasons old so surely Ty is learning from his mistakes of the past and this comp ismoving in the right direction!?!?!

You've hit the nail on the head and a rash response isn't the answer.

If the VRU were to inform the clubs of a promotion/relegation format starting in say 2014 nobody could complain (and if they did you could rightfully role your eyes in their direction). The reasons are logical and there'd be ample warning given as well as the fact that even with a bad performance they'd only be a year away from being back in the top grade.

Hopefully E.Hills perform well this year as Footscray had a great year last year.

 

[elementfreak]

You've hit the nail on the head and a rash response isn't the answer.

If the VRU were to inform the clubs of a promotion/relegation format starting in say 2014 nobody could complain (and if they did you could rightfully role your eyes in their direction). The reasons are logical and there'd be ample warning given as well as the fact that even with a bad performance they'd only be a year away from being back in the top grade.

Hopefully E.Hills perform well this year as Footscray had a great year last year.

The issue with E.Hills at the end of last year was they lost a lot of players in the 3rds and 2nds and the bulk of their players actually played all 3 grades for the last few rounds which is why teams started to put 70-100 points on them.

The issue I see with the promotion relegation would be that some of the 2nd div teams won't be able to field 3 grades needed for premier games.

 

[en_force_er]

The issue with E.Hills at the end of last year was they lost a lot of players in the 3rds and 2nds and the bulk of their players actually played all 3 grades for the last few rounds which is why teams started to put 70-100 points on them.

It's unfortunate for Endeavor but isn't this an indictment of the fact that they maybe shouldn't be in Prems? They did only win 1 or 2 games in all 3 grades and that's spanning the whole season.

They have terrific juniors and they form an absolutely VITAL part of the Vic rugby puzzle and yes they should be given another year to prove they cut the mustard but if they don't the logical place for them is Div 2.

It also perhaps shows it's a little unfair that Souths get to be the only team in Prems fielding only 2 Seniour teams when a similar set-up would clearly serve E.Hills well.

The issue I see with the promotion relegation would be that some of the 2nd div teams won't be able to field 3 grades needed for premier games.

That would be an issue presuming that there is no change to the current structure but there are certainly ways around it.

If you were to work promotion/relegation around the current structure (which you hopefully wouldn't) then you'd set conditions for promotion outside of performance; such as player numbers, facilities ect.

 

[pablo]

It's unfortunate for Endeavor but isn't this an indictment of the fact that they maybe shouldn't be in Prems? They did only win 1 or 2 games in all 3 grades and that's spanning the whole season.

It isn't fair to highlight the new clubs - while I acknowledge EH has struggled there are some "existing/strong" Prem 1 clubs that are on shaky ground, examples:

Boroondara a couple of seasons ago....I watched their 3rds field a full strength side, then back up for 2nds, and then some of those boys back up for 1sts, only for their 1sts to start with 11 or 12...then the coach ran on (sight for sore eyes!). Last season they won under 10 games across their senior club...

Box Hill were in the same predicament, while competitive in 1sts they were pulling out of 3rds games as they didn't have the players....last season they propped up their 3rds with players from their 1sts squad while their 2nds were left to flounder.

Only 4 or 5 clubs have colts (a condition of playing Prem 1 rugby) - imagine this was enforced and clubs were booted as a result, there'd be uproar!

Yes there are a lot of things to consider - going to a promtion/relegation system isn't going to work, especially if it is put in place in 2013 or 14. The VRU needs to listen to all clubs, not just those that reside within a 10km radius of Fortress Carlton!

 

[en_force_er]

Before I go on I want to make it clear I'm not looking to offend merely discuss. I know nowhere near as much about Vic Rugby as some of you.

It isn't fair to highlight the new clubs - while I acknowledge EH has struggled there are some "existing/strong" Prem 1 clubs that are on shaky ground, examples:

Boroondara a couple of seasons ago....I watched their 3rds field a full strength side, then back up for 2nds, and then some of those boys back up for 1sts, only for their 1sts to start with 11 or 12...then the coach ran on (sight for sore eyes!). Last season they won under 10 games across their senior club...

Box Hill were in the same predicament, while competitive in 1sts they were pulling out of 3rds games as they didn't have the players....last season they propped up their 3rds with players from their 1sts squad while their 2nds were left to flounder.

What you've done is list the 3 troublesome Prems clubs. By reducing the number of clubs to 8 it allows the league to pick the one that rises to the challenge and play the other 2 at a level where they'd be competitive.

We need to stop allowing clubs to play beyond their means and create a model that works. At the same time we need to make a model where a Prems club can field only 2 teams (which will in turn make it more possible for some to field a Colts).

There isn't always a link between player numbers and quality of play (see Souths V Melb Uni).

Only 4 or 5 clubs have colts (a condition of playing Prem 1 rugby) - imagine this was enforced and clubs were booted as a result, there'd be uproar!

I think certain clubs need to have a foot put up their bum when it comes to fielding Colts teams (namely Monash Uni).

Also there needs to be a model put into place where having 20 blokes aged 18-20 who just want to muck around doesn't mean you'll have your ass kicked all year. I have suggestions but I'm no expert.

Yes there are a lot of things to consider - going to a promtion/relegation system isn't going to work, especially if it is put in place in 2013 or 14. The VRU needs to listen to all clubs, not just those that reside within a 10km radius of Fortress Carlton!

I think it can, I'm not saying an EPL style one but one that reflects a club facilities, player numbers and quality of play in equal measure. The inner cities clubs aren't evil they're just inner city, near populations centres where more people and thus more rugby players, coaches, and fans live.

It's nobodies fault when a club can't get it together, certainly not the hard working back room staff, but that doesn't mean it's too be tolerated. If a club doesn't have the numbers AND isn't competitive in 1s then it has no place in Prems at the current time.

Better to allow them to play a great they can rebuild at and better to not dilute Victoria's rugby talent over too many clubs.

 

[elementfreak]

It isn't fair to highlight the new clubs - while I acknowledge EH has struggled there are some "existing/strong" Prem 1 clubs that are on shaky ground, examples:

Boroondara a couple of seasons ago....I watched their 3rds field a full strength side, then back up for 2nds, and then some of those boys back up for 1sts, only for their 1sts to start with 11 or 12...then the coach ran on (sight for sore eyes!). Last season they won under 10 games across their senior club...

Box Hill were in the same predicament, while competitive in 1sts they were pulling out of 3rds games as they didn't have the players....last season they propped up their 3rds with players from their 1sts squad while their 2nds were left to flounder.

Only 4 or 5 clubs have colts (a condition of playing Prem 1 rugby) - imagine this was enforced and clubs were booted as a result, there'd be uproar!

Yes there are a lot of things to consider - going to a promtion/relegation system isn't going to work, especially if it is put in place in 2013 or 14. The VRU needs to listen to all clubs, not just those that reside within a 10km radius of Fortress Carlton!

I was just using EH as an example, but you're right about BH doing it a couple of years ago.

 

[pablo]

Did anyone go to the 10s on the weekend??

 

[en_force_er]

Did anyone go to the 10s on the weekend??

I didn't, personally I think 10s is stupid, but I admit I have checked the VRU website a couple of times and it's interesting that the info isn't up yet.

 

[pablo]

I didn't, personally I think 10s is stupid, but I admit I have checked the VRU website a couple of times and it's interesting that the info isn't up yet.

I know Souths won, but looking to see who went and played, did many put good teams in?

 

[en_force_er]

I know Souths won, but looking to see who went and played, did many put good teams in?

Souths have turned from barely a Prems club to a power house in just a couple of years, good on them.

Do you think with their low numbers and slightly less than accessible location it's maintainable?

 

[pablo]

Souths have turned from barely a Prems club to a power house in just a couple of years, good on them.

Do you think with their low numbers and slightly less than accessible location it's maintainable?

Yeah quality in 1sts, ok in colts but fall away from there. Junior set up is working well for them and getting good results. They have a good committee that gets out there and attracts people to the club so hopefully the juniors will keep on rolling through as their colts did recently, fair few of thise are playing grade rugby. Always going to be hard for them to maintain it as they compete inland with EH (juniors) and up the bay with Moorabbin.

 

[en_force_er]

Yeah quality in 1sts, ok in colts but fall away from there. Junior set up is working well for them and getting good results. They have a good committee that gets out there and attracts people to the club so hopefully the juniors will keep on rolling through as their colts did recently, fair few of thise are playing grade rugby. Always going to be hard for them to maintain it as they compete inland with EH (juniors) and up the bay with Moorabbin.

They actually are pretty competitive in 2s as well, which makes me wonder where are there "social" players. You'd think they'd be able to make up a 3s of people just rocking up on a Saturday.

 

[pablo]

They actually are pretty competitive in 2s as well, which makes me wonder where are there "social" players. You'd think they'd be able to make up a 3s of people just rocking up on a Saturday.

Can be competitive in 2nds, last year yes but previous to that had struggled....do you think the association with Cerberus is stopping the "social player" aspect down in Frankston where players who would be on the fringe feel they can't just rock up and play as they aren't from the Navy?

 

[en_force_er]

Can be competitive in 2nds, last year yes but previous to that had struggled....do you think the association with Cerberus is stopping the "social player" aspect down in Frankston where players who would be on the fringe feel they can't just rock up and play as they aren't from the Navy?

I would guess that but I've never been involved with Souths. Perhaps with the new 4th grade happening Souths could play their 3rds there.

In other interesting news the VRU Annual Report is out (I don't know if it has previous been released but I certainly haven't seen it). http://210.247.205.118/assets/console/document/documents/VRU_AnnualReport_2011_LR.pdf

Some interesting stuff to discuss but I'm at work so maybe later.

 

[elementfreak]

Melbourne looked good at the weekend.

 

[en_force_er]

Melbourne looked good at the weekend.

Any details? Though I don't think this was ever in doubt, Melbourne usually look the goods.

 

[elementfreak]

It was a trial game against Box Hill, there were 6x20 minute periods and they each put 1sts and 2nds in the same team. Was a decent run for the teams although in the last 20 minute period Melbourne put on their full 1st grade side and they ran in 6 tries and just cut Box Hill to shreds.

 

[pablo]

It was a trial game against Box Hill, there were 6x20 minute periods and they each put 1sts and 2nds in the same team. Was a decent run for the teams although in the last 20 minute period Melbourne put on their full 1st grade side and they ran in 6 tries and just cut Box Hill to shreds.

Be very interesting to see how they go in Brisbane against clubs that are the level above. They have the players to be able to do it these days...

How were Box Hill for numbers?