Utility backs

[maxdacat]

Talk of JOC (James O'Connor) cementing his 5/8 possie for the Force got me thinking about this. Is it ideal to play a full season of S15 here then transition to wing for the world cup?

It seems that utility back are a uniquely aussie phenomenon. I'd be interested in seeing if stats are available ie number of backs over the last 5 or 10 yrs who have played more than one position. I suspect we would be near or at the top of that list.

I think this lack of specialists has not been conducive to stable effective goal kicking. Again if there were stats about the number of players sharing goal kicking duty i think we would be top.

Thoughts?

Do we do this in the forwards too?

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

The Kiwis do it a bit too. Exhibit A: Toeava.

 

[Hawko]

The Kiwis do it a bit too. Exhibit A: Toeava.

The Frogs also. Exhibit A: the 10 who made such a balls-up against us and whose name I temporarily forget. I blame it on a mis-spent youth.

 

[qwerty51]

Damien Traille?

 

[Blue]

Ruan Pienaar, Frans Steyn, Brent Russel, Percy Montogomery.

Yachvili has played 9 and 10, as has Lacroix.

SA have a long history of locks playing back row and visa versa.

Seems to me the SH teams have more utility players than those up North.

 

[waratahjesus]

JOC (James O'Connor) is the perfect bench player, i think we should invest in having him there for the world cup, with iaone back and mitchells form, do we want him on the wing on his goalkicking alone?

 

[maxdacat]

In the not so recent past for us i've got:

Larkham - Fullback and flyhalf
Roff - fullback and wing
Burke - fullback and centre
Little - centre & wing
Rogers - fullback & centre
Gitaeu - flyhalf & centre
Flatley - flyhalf & centre
Mortlock - centre & wing

probably not all strictly speaking utility backs since the other position might have been for a limited number of games.

 

[DPK]

In the not so recent past for us i've got:

Larkham - Fullback and flyhalf
Roff - fullback and wing
Burke - fullback and centre
Little - centre & wing
Rogers - fullback & centre
Gitaeu - flyhalf & centre
Flatley - flyhalf & centre
Mortlock - centre & wing

probably not all strictly speaking utility backs since the other position might have been for a limited number of games.

I'd say a utility back is someone that covers more than two positions and plays more than 5 tests in different positions.

But it's hard to define. You wouldn't call Larkham a utility back.

 

[Scotty]

And not even guys like Morlock. He may have played out on the wing a fair few times, but once he moved to 13 he pretty much stayed there, except for the odd game at 12.

True utility backs are ones that could cover 3-4 positions in the backline at any given time, to a reasonable degree.

 

[Reddy!]

JOC (James O'Connor) is the perfect bench player, i think we should invest in having him there for the world cup, with iaone back and mitchells form, do we want him on the wing on his goalkicking alone?

Yes we do want him in the team because of his goal kicking. It is that important. Need I remind you of our many loses since the 2007 WC because of poor goal kicking. I don't care where he plays, but he must play.

 

[MrMouse]

Yes we do want him in the team because of his goal kicking. It is that important. Need I remind you of our many loses since the 2007 WC because of poor goal kicking. I don't care where he plays, but he must play.

Do you genuinely think he's THAT much better than Beale, Cooper and Barnes that he can justify a position solely on his kicking? In my mind, a kicking specialist needs to be minimum Wilkinson level. JOC (James O'Connor), for me, isn't even close to that. I'm not sure I'd necessarily place him above Beale and Barnes.

 

[waratahjesus]

Yes we do want him in the team because of his goal kicking. It is that important. Need I remind you of our many loses since the 2007 WC because of poor goal kicking. I don't care where he plays, but he must play.

his overrated kicking aside, he is a bench player currently.

beale kicked well and won us the game in south africa, berrick has a decent kick as well, its not like JOC (James O'Connor) is any better than quade, he just has it cos being on the wing he has the least responsability otherwise

 

[Slim 293]

In regards to goal kicking Giteau is probably the best of the lot...

...buuuuuuut...

He's obviously choked on a few occasions at test level which is a big worry... and he shouldn't be a starting player now anyways... so Deans has to look at someone like Barnes, Cooper or Beale...

I'd preferably have JOC (James O'Connor) on the bench... in place of Giteau...

Mitchell and Ioane for me are by far the two best wingers in the country followed by Turner...

 

[jay-c]

giteau is the best kicker except when it comes to pressure kicks... it even happened last weekend when he could have sealed it for the brumbies> the important ones he misses.
JOC (James O'Connor) is the best of the rest kicker and we need our best kicker on for 80mins
australian rugby has been in dire straights since bourke stopped kicking for us
mitchell and ioane i agree are the best two wingers so maybe u gotta make room for JOC (James O'Connor) at 12. turner however is far from our next best> the last thing we need is another player kicking the ball at every opportunity wasting good ball. coward.

 

[waratahjesus]

giteau is the best kicker except when it comes to pressure kicks... it even happened last weekend when he could have sealed it for the brumbies> the important ones he misses.
JOC (James O'Connor) is the best of the rest kicker and we need our best kicker on for 80mins
australian rugby has been in dire straights since bourke stopped kicking for us
mitchell and ioane i agree are the best two wingers so maybe u gotta make room for JOC (James O'Connor) at 12. turner however is far from our next best> the last thing we need is another player kicking the ball at every opportunity wasting good ball. coward.

the problem with the current wallabies is the midfield is painted into a corner, Barnes has to be at 12 to cover for coopers lack of defence and also for his tactical kicking. JOC (James O'Connor) becomes the outcast. i dont actually think JOC (James O'Connor) has the kicking ability to say he is a must by any means.

9 - genia/burgo
10- cooper/barnes
11-mitchell
12-barnes/gits/JOC (James O'Connor)
13-AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)/Horne/iaone
14-Iaone/JOC (James O'Connor)

 

[Slim 293]

Let's see how Cooper plays this year... he might not be guaranteed the flyhalf spot on form...

So far Barnes has been the better player, but it's still too early in the season to tell...

But having Barnes at flyhalf certainly makes room for JOC (James O'Connor) at inside centre...

 

[maxdacat]

Need I remind you of our many loses since the 2007 WC because of poor goal kicking. .

i'm curious.....just wondering how many close games we have lost over the last decade by not converting kicks? To my mind Burke was the last proper specialist ie took the kicking duties every game he played at a reasonable %. over a long period.

Since then?

 

[dobduff11]

But having Barnes at flyhalf certainly makes room for JOC (James O'Connor) at inside centre...

Thats a good point Slim.

If Cooper is at ten then it will be difficult for JOC (James O'Connor) to get 12 because of his perceived defensive weaknesses. (watched a nudgee 2007 match on dvd today and he was surprisingly putting on some hits league style).

Barnes 10 JOC (James O'Connor) 12 combo looks good and less fragile than Cooper at 10. If JOC (James O'Connor) can become a consistent line breaker at super level and then internationals this year at 12 then you guys might not need QC (Quade Cooper) and his passing. Especially if Barnes rediscovers his 2007 form.

 

[Crow]

Barnes 10 JOC (James O'Connor) 12 combo looks good and less fragile than Cooper at 10.

Given recent form, I'd reverse it. JOC (James O'Connor) had a great game at 10.
I've been quite unhappy with all of the Australian kickers thus far. If Cips were eligible, I'd bring him in.

 

[Richard D. James]

How many kicks did Barnes miss last week? Beale has never shown he's a consistent kicker, same as QC (Quade Cooper), and we all know how Gits handles the pressure kicks. JOC (James O'Connor) is the best of lot atm when it comes to kicking.