USA and Canadian Rugby

[WorkingClassRugger]

sorry
BC place is the wrong turf and rugby canada is working with the IRB to sort it out somehow (i imagine by getting the turf approved as its used by MLS and CFL)
but b.c place is 50,000 capacity

It has a flexible capacity via a fake roof that can reduce it to 21,000 as it often is during MLS games. They could easily look to start and still have room for growth in the future.

 

[yeahmate]

looks as though the USA rugby union league is splitting off similarly to what the USA rugby league did with the AMNRL and the USARL.

there's a pacific rim championship where they play each other twice (and are run outside of USA rugby) with:
Belmont Shore,
Denver Barbarians,
Glendale Raptors,
Olympic Club,
OMBAC,
San Francisco Golden Gate
and
Santa Monica.

And then they'll be the those remaining in the Elite Cup:
Boston,
Life,
NYAC,
Old Blue,
and
Seattle-OPSB

here's the article: http://www.rugbymag.com/super-league-/9804-western-clubs-confirm-pacific-rugby-premiership.html

It's good there making leagues but I'm not sure doing it around USA rugby is a good thing, might lead similarly to what happened in USA rugby league

 

[exISA]

looks as though the USA rugby union league is splitting off similarly to what the USA rugby league did with the AMNRL and the USARL.

there's a pacific rim championship where they play each other twice (and are run outside of USA rugby) with:
Belmont Shore,
Denver Barbarians,
Glendale Raptors,
Olympic Club,
OMBAC,
San Francisco Golden Gate
and
Santa Monica.

And then they'll be the those remaining in the Elite Cup:
Boston,
Life,
NYAC,
Old Blue,
and
Seattle-OPSB

here's the article: http://www.rugbymag.com/super-league-/9804-western-clubs-confirm-pacific-rugby-premiership.html

It's good there making leagues but I'm not sure doing it around USA rugby is a good thing, might lead similarly to what happened in USA rugby league

I still think its a bandaid solution to the problem the USA league faces. And thats the fact that amature clubs are expected to play in a semi professional set up on an amature budget - those clubs lucky enough to have a "financier" still struggle. This comp is so much better than the Elite Cup set up last year and the D1. I coached one of the above mentioned teams last season and it was a headache bouncing between the two competitions .

Ive said this till Im black and blue - the USA needs to form a compeittion where the best players in "regions" play an elite competition - not the "elite cup" where the best "clubs" play in it. The talent is spread across 200+ clubs around the country and its national team suffers as a result. Its got to start from the top down , not the bottom up.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I still think its a bandaid solution to the problem the USA league faces. And thats the fact that amature clubs are expected to play in a semi professional set up on an amature budget - those clubs lucky enough to have a "financier" still struggle. This comp is so much better than the Elite Cup set up last year and the D1. I coached one of the above mentioned teams last season and it was a headache bouncing between the two competitions .

Ive said this till Im black and blue - the USA needs to form a compeittion where the best players in "regions" play an elite competition - not the "elite cup" where the best "clubs" play in it. The talent is spread across 200+ clubs around the country and its national team suffers as a result. Its got to start from the top down , not the bottom up.

Having coached there you would know the level of self interest is comparable to that of our club Rugby scene. They should look to form united City based franchise like squads to help elevate the standard but that will be far more difficult than many would like to think.

The Pacific Rugby Premiership is a step in the right direction. They are making all the right noises and hopefully find some traction commercially as to avoid becoming a western based RSL which was an abject failure thorughout its existence.

This will be the best quality league of either code nationally. One that will have a decent schedule in terms of games played. It has a number of the best run clubs (OPSB withdrew due to their relationship with USAR). Hopefully they can organise a good stream and really work on building some sort of fanbase.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

a strange set up. the difference between the route canada has gone versus the usa shows up on the field, imo.
we have club rugby which feeds into regional rep rugby (canadian rugby championship - BC, Albert, Prairies, Ontario, Quebec/Maritimes and Newfoundland) from there you make the Maple Leafs, a Canada A style team and from there you move up to the Canadian team which plays in the America's cup - that team is the national team minus all the professionals. that leads into the full national team.

top non pro players still play for their club and with the canadian centre for excellence in victoria bc, most all play the club season in b.c, then they work their way up through the representative sides into the national team.
much clearer structure and competition and i thought we, lacking a few pros, really showed the difference in the world cup qualifiers. the connections we have established with the welsh rugby union teams are also excellent, a lot of canadians going on short term contracts or full contracts to the pro teams there.

the canadian rugby championship, as far as i can tell, is a great stage for top club players to play with the best from their province and against the best in other provinces, then a logical past for the best from that to make the maple leafs and then the national squad.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

According to an article on thisisamericanrugby they intend to provide a webstream but mention it will depend on the level of sponsorship. They evidently have sponsorship lined up but are always opened to even more and there is the possibility of a TV deal for the league.

If they achieve a significant level of sponsorship and a TV deal, then they will already have eclipsed anything before it. If they come up with a means to pay players, we could see a migration of the best players in the USA to this league and even an expansion in time.

 

[exISA]

You both hit the nail on the head. Currently the pathway to the USA side is picked directly from Clubs . Can you imagine if thats how the wallabies did it? Picked from each of the premier competitions around teh country? I know once upon a time you might have seen a phil kearns plucked from reserve grade at randwick but there was still that stepping stone between club and country - state... tahts what the gaping difference here in the US is.

So so so much potential here, but the top end manage the game so poorly which in turn detracts from sponsors. There is a realisitc opportunity to have a north american/canadian type Super Rugby competition , just need to have the sponsors to do it.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

You both hit the nail on the head. Currently the pathway to the USA side is picked directly from Clubs . Can you imagine if thats how the wallabies did it? Picked from each of the premier competitions around teh country? I know once upon a time you might have seen a phil kearns plucked from reserve grade at randwick but there was still that stepping stone between club and country - state. tahts what the gaping difference here in the US is.

So so so much potential here, but the top end manage the game so poorly which in turn detracts from sponsors. There is a realisitc opportunity to have a north american/canadian type Super Rugby competition , just need to have the sponsors to do it.

They need the will to do it. But I agree. There is the possibility to do a very similar concept to that of Super Rugby in North America. Canada already have the base set up in the CRC and it shouldn't be too difficult for the US to find 4 city or state based squads. What they need is someone willing to put their heads on the line and push for it.

The IRB should be approached to push some funding its way. Force the USAR to treat it as a serious competition not just purely as a develop exercise as they did the NA 4 and look to get real sponsorship and TV coverage. They should even look work with UWS former USA Sevesn LLC who run the Las Vegas and CRC 7s and have recently signed on with the Varsity Cup. They have the connections to arrange both the sponsorship and TV side of things.

 

[en_force_er]

I guess the trouble with US rugby is, how do you divy it up?

Canada falls very cleanly into franchises or rep teams, the US huge with a pretty inconsistent population distribution.

The only solution I can think of is create a few rep teams and ask those who are serious to move to population centres, but then you end up with the clubs under the rep teams becoming haves and have nots (a semi-pro player can't move for 3-4 months a year). Which leads to it's own issues much like the SS, and if the clubs in the US are self-interested (as discussed above) it's a massive issue.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I guess the trouble with US rugby is, how do you divy it up?

Canada falls very cleanly into franchises or rep teams, the US huge with a pretty inconsistent population distribution.

The only solution I can think of is create a few rep teams and ask those who are serious to move to population centres, but then you end up with the clubs under the rep teams becoming haves and have nots (a semi-pro player can't move for 3-4 months a year). Which leads to it's own issues much like the SS, and if the clubs in the US are self-interested (as discussed above) it's a massive issue.

That's the worry with the PRP. If they do achieve the levels of sponsorship needed and a TV deal (which can lead to the sponsorship) then the best players will move across to play in a competition where the money is. This could be at the detriment of the rest of the country.

Though, I'd imagine if the PRP does suceed we'll see a Atlantic Rugby Premiership will quickly be organised.

The issue then will be to work to ensure it doesn't go the way of the RSL, which I'm not hopeful of.

The issue with the rep teams is where to put them as there are a few locations that would argue they deserve them. I'd go with Colorado and Northern California from the west and New York and Boston/New England from the East to start.

In time they can bring Utah and Texas in the West and Chicago and don't know maybe Atlanta in the East.

 

[yeahmate]

on the USA's game this weekend they've got a decent squad, probably better than Canada had (based on my limited knowledge of NA players). Eagles got some old-timers in Thiel, LaValla, Clever, Petri, Suniula and L'Estrange, and Hume's been around for a bit hasn't he?

USA Lineup to face Maori All Blacks
1. Nick Wallace, Olympic Club (St. Mary's)
2. Phil Tiel, Life University
3. Shawn Pittman, Seattle-OPSB
4. Scott LaValla, Stade Francais (Trinity)
5. Tai Tuisamoa, OMBAC
6. Todd Clever (c), NTT Communications (Nevada)
7. Peter Dahl, Belmont Shore
8. Cam Dolan, Life University
9. Mike Petri, NYAC (Penn State)
10. Toby L'Estrange, NYAC (Sydney Universities)
11. Tim Maupin, Olympic Club (St. Mary's)
12. Andrew Suniula, Wasps
13. Seamus Kelly, U. California
14. Luke Hume, Unattached
15. Adam Siddall, Old Blue
Reserves
16. Zach Fenoglio, Glendale (Loyola Marymount)
17. Titi Lamositele, Saracens (Chuckanut U19s)
18. Oliver Kilifi, Seattle-OPSB
19. Graham Harriman, Metropolis (Minnesota-Duluth)
20. Kyle Sumsion, BYU
21. Shaun Davies, BYU22. Zach Pangelinan, OMBAC
23. Folau Niua, USA 7s team

 

[boyo]

"Chuckanut" - Love it!

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

"Chuckanut" - Love it!

The key will be the fowards manning up and L'Estrange being able to unleash their backline. Better team than expected to be honest. Would be stronger with Wyles and Scully but not too bad.

Chuckanut is actually the prop factory of American Rugby. Player to watch is actually on the bench in Tit Lamositele who is about to sign with Sarries.

 

[en_force_er]

8. Cam Dolan, Life University

10. Toby L'Estrange, NYAC (Sydney Universities)

Tell me more about these blokes.

Dolan must be good to displace Clever from 8. Though I've always thought he should be at 6.

I've heard L'Estrange's name before. What's his deal? Does he regularly play Uni 1sts?

 

[Antony]

Tell me more about these blokes.

Dolan must be good to displace Clever from 8. Though I've always thought he should be at 6.

I've heard L'Estrange's name before. What's his deal? Does he regularly play Uni 1sts?

All I know is he played for USyd Law against UQ Law. That was actually a ripping game.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Tell me more about these blokes.

Dolan must be good to displace Clever from 8. Though I've always thought he should be at 6.

I've heard L'Estrange's name before. What's his deal? Does he regularly play Uni 1sts?

Dolan's a rising star in terms of forwards in the US. He's a tough and confrontational player so he should go okay if he gets the support from his team mates.

L'Estrange is very inconsistent. Performed well in the ARC but he's previous outings have been very mixed. Don't know how often he played 1sts for Uni but he's been playing his Rugby exclusively for NYAC for the last few seasons.

 

[p.Tah]

USA rugby have confirmed the game is sold out. Only 18,500 capacity but will be a great atmosphere.

 

[en_force_er]

Dolan's a rising star in terms of forwards in the US. He's a tough and confrontational player so he should go okay if he gets the support from his team mates.

L'Estrange is very inconsistent. Performed well in the ARC but he's previous outings have been very mixed. Don't know how often he played 1sts for Uni but he's been playing his Rugby exclusively for NYAC for the last few seasons.

So he's an Aussie of American heritage pursuing his opportunities over there?

 

[boyo]

Jim(?) L'Estrange played for Syd. Uni. (winger?) in the seventies(?)'

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

So he's an Aussie of American heritage pursuing his opportunities over there?

I think so. I really cannot be sure but I could likely find out.