Upping the foreign roster?

[chief]

Honestly it does pain me to say it. But Australian teams are struggling to compete. I know for starting this thread I will get absolutely knuckled up by rugby traditionalists for saying it, but let's face it, I think the foreign roster with Super 14 teams particularly in Australia needs to be upped to at least 3 players per team. Whether or not the teams want to use those players would be entirely up to their discretion. But come on, I don't think the Western Force will be able to stay competitive, or even alive unless they actually get to win some games, unfortunately in Australia the Ruby League culture exists very strongly. So we don't have a huge array of players to select from, unless we want to try and take them (becoming more and more harder)

There is talk of a Perth NRL team going around. If the Western Force continue to fail success wise then the WA franchise could soon find themselves hanging by a thread. QLD Rugby could collapse very easily if they don't get some more frequent 20,000 + crowds to their games, as they are in financial hardship. Up the foreign roster and we'll have some more better players and a long with that a better standing financial situation.

It does suck to admit it, but I think it is time for the ARU to up the number so Aussie teams can actually stay alive.


Please ladies and gentleman go gentle on me.

 

[Ash]

The Tahs and Brumbies problems have absolutely nothing to do with their teams on paper. They are damn strong, and pundits from across the Tasman and in SA agree on that point. Upping it won't help them.

The Force's matchday 22 is not bad either, if they were all healthy. Could put a few sides away nicely with that pack. Their back depth was paper thin though, and they got a few injuries to their backs and key forward in Pocock. Bad luck - players like Pocock are irreplacable, and having to play Harris at 10 is tragic. Any team with their injury toll (outside of the Crusaders, who went through it one year and were still remarkable) will struggle.

Reds are doing quite well with the cattle they have, and were supposed to be the weakest Aus side on paper.

Upping the foreign roster, just who would they get extra? Most of the "marquee" players have barely been that. Anesi for the Tahs, Castle for the Force, even Pretorius at the Force (who at his peak was better than those two mentioned) - not exactly world class players. You have to look at what they might add - and I don't think it's too much. Braid has probably been the best buy, but he's not a match winning star either - more of a solid workhorse. Right now he's a key for the Reds, though. More than I can say for the other two (and Castle).

Once the Rebels have been around for a year, though, I may change my tune as that will severely strip what little depth we have right now.

 

[Lindommer]

Australian rugby desparately needs to get 15 or 20 troubadors back on our shores next year. We don't have enough depth to lose quality players who feel they won't get a run in a Super side. The vast majority of the troubadors were Super squad players at some stage, and most could be in the future.

I fowarded my list to Rod Macqueen in an attempt to help him realise how many Aussies there are overseas; the RUPA list is woefully incomplete and out of date. Here's hoping.

 

[todd4]

I read in the press that Macqueen said that he is determined to fill his roster primarily with Aust based players and would be unlikely to sign 10 overseas players. Here in the west there is not enough depth locally to replace any top-shelf players that are poached so it would be a domino effect where the Force would probably then look interstate at teams who themselves are being raided by the Rebels. If the ARU will not increase the number of overseas signings per club then the other 4 clubs should be able to use the Rebels unused allocation.

 

[RugbyReg]

I read in the press that Macqueen said that he is determined to fill his roster primarily with Aust based players and would be unlikely to sign 10 overseas players. Here in the west there is not enough depth locally to replace any top-shelf players that are poached so it would be a domino effect where the Force would probably then look interstate at teams who themselves are being raided by the Rebels. If the ARU will not increase the number of overseas signings per club then the other 4 clubs should be able to use the Rebels unused allocation.

interesting terminology for a Force supporter to use.

 

[Langthorne]

Often I think it will come down to what the players will be paid. They don't attract the best foreigners now because they don't offer them top money. Raising the number of foreigners in each team will not attract better players than the Aussies who are playing overseas, so I see no need to do it.

 

[CanadianRugby]

I agree that allowing more overseas players is not the option. How many Aussie teams in the Super 14 could expect a huge increase in their ability if they could sign two more overseas players? It might at a little depth to teams, but wouldn't make them significantly better, I don't think. As has been pointed out, the reason Aussie teams don't get good overseas players is the same reason there are so many Aussie players overseas, becaues they get better paid. How much better would the Western force be if they could sign Brock James? I would argue much better. But he's expensive.

As a follow on, I saw an article about Habana saying that he saw the future where teams don't have these types of player restrictions. Obviously I live in a country where we don't have those restrictions on our teams and in some ways I wish we did (so the Americans would stop stealing our best hockey players). How do people feel about the possibility of having teams with no restrictions on foreign-born players?

 

[Pfitzy]

interesting terminology for a Force supporter to use.

Boo-hoo. Your teams were getting walloped and your administration were a bunch of basket-weavers. Move on.

I think the reason Macqueen is focussed on local talent is he knows that the guys up north are mainly there for the money (second stringers who never made regular S14 lineups) or are saving for retirement, or both. Cipriani was a major coup but how many Aussie players are going to come back down here just to have their former coaches and selectors proven right i.e. they weren't up to it back then and won't be now, and for less money.

I have no problem with an extra foreign player per team and by that I mean ineligible for the Wallabies.

 

[RugbyReg]

interesting terminology for a Force supporter to use.

Boo-hoo. Your teams were getting walloped and your administration were a bunch of basket-weavers. Move on.

interesting. Now give us an appraisal of where your Tahs are at the moment?

 

[Pfitzy]

Bad culture. Incompetent coach. No binding culture. In short - gone to shithouse. I don't bitch about other provinces raping my talent though because by and large we retain it, and we've finished higher on the ladder for a wee while now so maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[Epi]

I think we have a duty of care to emerging rugby nations to open up the comp to foreign players.

How do we expect rugby to catch on in other countries if the players can't ply their trade in the top leagues.

e.g. players like winger Martin Jagr from Czech Republic or US flyer Takudzwa Ngwenya. Would anyone have heard of FIFA world player of the year George Weah if he was forced to play out his soccer career in Liberia??

Not to mention the players from pacific island nations who may like to represent their country of birth for a change.

I think it's poor we have such an insular and selfish attitude. :angryfire:

 

[Sully]

We have a duty of care to our own country first! we have about 100 full-time rugby players in this country and if we up the foreign player quota every foreign player is taking the place of a possible future Wallaby.

 

[Scotty]

Australian rugby desparately needs to get 15 or 20 troubadors back on our shores next year. We don't have enough depth to lose quality players who feel they won't get a run in a Super side. The vast majority of the troubadors were Super squad players at some stage, and most could be in the future.

I fowarded my list to Rod Macqueen in an attempt to help him realise how many Aussies there are overseas; the RUPA list is woefully incomplete and out of date. Here's hoping.

Good work Lindommer. I completely agree that this would be the best long term result for Australian rugby.

I'd even support poaching league players over playing too many overseas players. At least they have a chance to strengthen S14 and as well as Wallaby depth, not to mention the ability to increase the local support (grab a few league fans).

 

[Epi]

We have a duty of care to our own country first! we have about 100 full-time rugby players in this country and if we up the foreign player quota every foreign player is taking the place of a possible future Wallaby.

And yet most here were arguing that there was not enough depth to field a 5th Super Rugby team...

And yet the ARU recruits leaguies who get handed a green and gold jersey without earning it....

The french game is currently in its strongest shape and it's team just thrashed Ireland and are hot favourites to take out the Six Nations. Without going over old ground - whilst the sports minister (Laporte) wants to limit the number of foreigners in the top 14, many of the top coaches are saying that foreigners in the comp are lifting the standards of their own players.

 

[Sully]

Are you suggesting we have the money to pay our players what a Top 14 player gets? Without the money there is no lift in standard.

 

[waratahjesus]

the force should just become a half aussie/half saffa side, they could play all there south african games in south africa and all there australian games in perth and split up the kiwi games. that way, south africa get there extra spots and perth stays competitive. its going to get harder and harder for them to attract players west when the east coast players have four teams within two hours flight to chose from.

 

[Epi]

Are you suggesting we have the money to pay our players what a Top 14 player gets? Without the money there is no lift in standard.

No. I'm saying that when each of the major rugby nations act to keep foreigners out of their competition for the perceived advantage to their national team it damages the code as a 'world game'.

 

[Moses]

I think we have a duty of care to emerging rugby nations to open up the comp to foreign players.

How do we expect rugby to catch on in other countries if the players can't ply their trade in the top leagues.

e.g. players like winger Martin Jagr from Czech Republic or US flyer Takudzwa Ngwenya. Would anyone have heard of FIFA world player of the year George Weah if he was forced to play out his soccer career in Liberia??

Not to mention the players from pacific island nations who may like to represent their country of birth for a change.

I think it's poor we have such an insular and selfish attitude. :angryfire:

I agree, with the caveat that after three years of extending the olive branch of goodwill we can naturalise these players and stick em in a gold jersey!

 

[farva]

Are you suggesting we have the money to pay our players what a Top 14 player gets? Without the money there is no lift in standard.

No. I'm saying that when each of the major rugby nations act to keep foreigners out of their competition for the perceived advantage to their national team it damages the code as a 'world game'.

As opposed to Perth which is only a 4hr flight away. The whole idea of WA being isolated is a pile of bollocks. The reason for the current bad shape of the Force is that they have had crucial injuries compounded by a lack of depth bought on by poor management, that has allowed several key players to slip through the net (note that Brock James was signed there and they let him go, same with Jimmy Hilgendorf, plus there were no back ups to Giteau.

Australia has always been shallow in talent, bought on by the fact we have so few registered players compared to the other SANZAR countries. But we can field 15 NRL teams with maybe double the players. I cant see why we cant support 5 teams. That isnt may. But some sort of domestic competition is also crucial, even if that is just dropping all of the talent into the Sydney club comp for now?

Either way, I think we need to sort out management of the S14 teams, as I see both the Reds and Force management as having been quite amateur at times. But this might just be left over from the amateur age...

And by bringing in a few international players from places like the PIs, Argies, etc then we will increase the quality of the competition and this will aid our own players.

 

[Scotty]

interesting. Now give us an appraisal of where your Tahs are at the moment?

Easy Noddy, the Reds and Tahs are both 1 from 2, so lets leave that comment for a few more games.