TT R5 Hurricanes v Reds Friday 5:05PM
- Thread starter dru
- Start date
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
Highlights
Didn't see either game last night due to a family meal & drinks (OK, mostly drinks
) but the PT was textbook imo: once Hegarty bats the ball away the ref & TMO guidelines say they're to pretend he wasn't there to begin with in which case Laumape probably scores therefore it's a YC & PT.
Didn't see either game last night due to a family meal & drinks (OK, mostly drinks
) but the PT was textbook imo: once Hegarty bats the ball away the ref & TMO guidelines say they're to pretend he wasn't there to begin with in which case Laumape probably scores therefore it's a YC & PT.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
I agree about PT, the more I looked at it this morning the more convinced it right. Very similar scenario to SBW giving one away in a test .(recall marshy not liking that either, saying player wouldn't of got there)
By same token, I still think Lomax may well get cited , as if I was reffing it would of been a RC.
Still that's how I would of called them and said exactly same to my missus as I was watching game.
By same token, I still think Lomax may well get cited , as if I was reffing it would of been a RC.
Still that's how I would of called them and said exactly same to my missus as I was watching game.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
How does that work in context though. At what point do they take Hegarty out of play. If you look at the footage, before Hegarty bats the ball Laumape has already dived and mis-judgened the bounce of the football which bounces up as he goes low. He is under the ball and it is unlikely he is going to get it down. Having missed it on the first go, and having already dived, I don’t see how you can say that he probably would have got it down before it went dead. The only difference ignoring Hegarty makes is that you can argue he wouldn’t have had to dive - but the ball was bouncing towards the dead ball line, so I don’t agree with that either. Edit: and, to my understanding, that is not the intent of this directive anyway. You only ignore Hegarty from the time the offence is committed, which is after Laumape has already been beaten by the bounce. Very different situation to ignoring a player who is offside or where the attacking player still has a good play on the ball. That is the intent of that directive, to my understanding.
Anyhow - it’s irrelevant now. I see where you are coming from but, IMO, Laumape clearly got done by the bounce regardless of Hegarty. So he probably wasn’t going to score.
Anyhow - it’s irrelevant now. I see where you are coming from but, IMO, Laumape clearly got done by the bounce regardless of Hegarty. So he probably wasn’t going to score.
Dismal Pillock
Michael Lynagh (62)
Still not convinced Lumpy couldnt have somehow rogered up the grounding from where he was though.....
Ignoto
Peter Sullivan (51)
Either way, the only consistent thing that's come out of both Super Rugby Aotoera and TT is the poor quality of Refs coming out of NZ. We've had both sides of the ditch complain about their interpretations and managing of the games.
Was/Is NZRU too occupied with their PE cash injection that they can't keep their house in order?
Until NZRU gets serious about their performance of their Refs, RA, the PI and Japanese teams shouldn't give NZRU the time and place in any future competitions!
Was/Is NZRU too occupied with their PE cash injection that they can't keep their house in order?
Until NZRU gets serious about their performance of their Refs, RA, the PI and Japanese teams shouldn't give NZRU the time and place in any future competitions!
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
Haha Ignoto - well, that is a long jump from where is was at, but I kinda think you might be fishing. Maybe.
Rugby is a hard game to ref. I can accept some mistakes - even the carding of Hegarty (although it might not seem like it based on my couple of responses). If the Reds hadn’t missed about 50 tackles, dropped half a dozen key balls and spent all night kicking the ball poorly I might have been less forgiving.
What is dislike is that rugby is slipping back towards allowing systematic breaking of rules - offsides, illegal breakdown tactics, shepherding off the ball - and I’d like to see this cracked down on. I don’t see this as solely an issue with NZ refs and, based on a lot of the comments on here about the likes of Berry, Murphy et al the wider rugby community doesn’t either.
A big thing is that I don’t think we need a rule change, but we do need a change of intent in enforcing the rules. I don’t think we’ll ever get away from teams testing the refs, but using the AR to rule offside, strictly enforcing the tackler rolling away and stopping players run obstruction lines should be well within the powers of existing official set ups.
Rugby is a hard game to ref. I can accept some mistakes - even the carding of Hegarty (although it might not seem like it based on my couple of responses). If the Reds hadn’t missed about 50 tackles, dropped half a dozen key balls and spent all night kicking the ball poorly I might have been less forgiving.
What is dislike is that rugby is slipping back towards allowing systematic breaking of rules - offsides, illegal breakdown tactics, shepherding off the ball - and I’d like to see this cracked down on. I don’t see this as solely an issue with NZ refs and, based on a lot of the comments on here about the likes of Berry, Murphy et al the wider rugby community doesn’t either.
A big thing is that I don’t think we need a rule change, but we do need a change of intent in enforcing the rules. I don’t think we’ll ever get away from teams testing the refs, but using the AR to rule offside, strictly enforcing the tackler rolling away and stopping players run obstruction lines should be well within the powers of existing official set ups.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
They take him as not being there at all, and if wasn't there Lumpy probably wouldn't have had to dive anyway. As I said earlier similar to what happened when SBW knocked a ball dead and player was probably further away. I agreed then and agree now, that is how the law is written.
I not sure if I agree with the law, but as WOB points out it is a YC and PT. Same as argiung whether a knock down being called a YC if there is no cover behind the receiver, you never know if the receiver would definitely catch ball etc, but you work on probability.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
You’re ignoring that Laumape had already dived and had already missed the ball. That isn’t the intent of the directive. You can ignore Hegarty - but you doesnt mean you ignore the actions of Laumape entirely. I disagree he wouldn’t have had to dive to plant the ball that was rolling away from him. That’s highly unlikely IMO.
TSR
Andrew Slack (58)
I’ve watched it again, and I stick by my view. But I guess the counter point is that as soon as Hegarty gets done for batting the ball (which I don’t have an issue with) then a penalty try becomes a possible option. It’s far from the worst decision I’ve seen and if I look at the missed tackles in the lead up, then you can conclude that the outcome could’ve been prevented by the Reds in the lead up. I’ve had my say on it, so I’ll leave it at that.
dru
David Wilson (68)
Thought the high tackle was a clear Red.
Hegarty being pinged for deliberate knocking out was fine. Don't agree with the penalty try unless there is some directive that it must be issued. Something I don't know about.
Still think Tupou try was OK, but happy to look for the mudder mud crawl on replay, and if so is a good ruling.
Ref missed a blatant Red high tackle late in the game, well not missed but should have been carded.
The blatant issue as others have said is clear off side at the ruck and the ref ignoring it. Kiwi teams clearly play to this and are good at it, where I think our refs are better at holding the line. Not good exactly, but better.
Thought Fotuaika had a fabulous stint, possibly his best this year even if he lasted just a half. Daugunu is back in scintillating form. I liked our forwards running tight at the edge of the rucks when they saw opportunity - there was room there. Hegarty kicking was average with maybe 3 or 4 utter howlers. But otherwise he stepped into 10 strongly. He's been a great servant to Qld this year.
Some of the match stats are not pretty:
Penalties conceded: H: 6, R: 12 (anyone think we were twice as ill disciplined?)
Tackle %: H: a poor 85%, R: 69%!!!
Kicks (from hand) H:27, R: 18 (quality not quantity)
Possession R: 1st: 69% 2nd: 49%
Territory H: 1st 29% 2nd: 55%
Distance run H: 587m, R: 732m
Hegarty being pinged for deliberate knocking out was fine. Don't agree with the penalty try unless there is some directive that it must be issued. Something I don't know about.
Still think Tupou try was OK, but happy to look for the mudder mud crawl on replay, and if so is a good ruling.
Ref missed a blatant Red high tackle late in the game, well not missed but should have been carded.
The blatant issue as others have said is clear off side at the ruck and the ref ignoring it. Kiwi teams clearly play to this and are good at it, where I think our refs are better at holding the line. Not good exactly, but better.
Thought Fotuaika had a fabulous stint, possibly his best this year even if he lasted just a half. Daugunu is back in scintillating form. I liked our forwards running tight at the edge of the rucks when they saw opportunity - there was room there. Hegarty kicking was average with maybe 3 or 4 utter howlers. But otherwise he stepped into 10 strongly. He's been a great servant to Qld this year.
Some of the match stats are not pretty:
Penalties conceded: H: 6, R: 12 (anyone think we were twice as ill disciplined?)
Tackle %: H: a poor 85%, R: 69%!!!
Kicks (from hand) H:27, R: 18 (quality not quantity)
Possession R: 1st: 69% 2nd: 49%
Territory H: 1st 29% 2nd: 55%
Distance run H: 587m, R: 732m
waiopehu oldboy
George Smith (75)
No. Nor can you throw it out or dead, you can only carry or kick it out or dead.
The refereeing definitely appeared biased, strange to hear even the NZ commentators saying it. However Reds were really poor on average.
1. Fotuaika: Had an OK game, held his own in scrums & did some useful carries.
2. Amosa: Good parting game, one of the best for the Reds all season & last night.
3. Tupou: Has been getting worse game by game of late. Maybe he is sick, or saving himself for Wallabies.
4. Blyth: Did little in his 53 minutes - 4m in carries, 7 tackles. Reds are back to having a real problem in 2nd row. Uru or Smith would have been much better options. Not sure what is going on with Uru?
5. Loto: Ok Game, nothing outstanding however.
6. Scott-Young: Good solid performance, one of the better performers on the night, low tackle count - 3 with 2 missed. Has improved his ball carrying.
7. Wright: Reds have got themselves in a real situation here. Compelled to play the captain, when he is one of the worst performers on the paddock. Not even influential at club level, let alone TT Super Rugby. Completely overhyped.
8. Wilson: Great Game, Great player, one of the few up to international level. Really lifts to the occasion.
9. McDermott: Good game, mainly due to his running, sniping & quick mind. Kicks fairly ordinary, passing not as crisp as Sorovi however.
10. Hegarty: Terrible game, kicking was woeful, right from the first failed kick-off.
11. Daugunu: Good in attack when he got the opportunity. Like the rest of the backs, terrible in defence. The Backs missed around 25 tackles. Not to mention the ones they didn't even attempt to make.
12, 14, 15: Henry, Flook, Grealy: Boys playing against men, and it really showed last night. All have potential to be great players, but need more time playing Prem Grade, or NRC. Stop hyping these players up so early.
13. Paisami: The Hunter is now the hunted. Ok in attack, terrible defence. Suffered from having Henry inside him.
16. Asiata: Only got 8 minutes.
17. Hoopert: Scrum went downhill big time when he came on. Has been getting outclassed regularly at Club level, not sure how he earned a call up.
18. Nonggorr: Only 11 minutes.
19. Smith: Should have started, unless Uru was in side.
20. McReight: Not sure what he did in his time out of the squad to convince Reds he had learned his lesson. Did little in his 27 minutes, which should have been enough time to do something. In fact in a combined 107 minutes on the field, the Reds two "Wallaby" No.7's managed 10 carries for 23 metres, 13 tackles, 4 missed tackles & one Turnover. Can't see how either could be favoured for Wallaby selection.
21. Thomas: No field time. Bizzare to select 3 half backs however. Same comments as 12, 13, 15.
22. Creighton: Only 5 min. Congrats on the cap. Has looked good at club level, so deserved.
23. Sorovi: Final game for the Reds. Not sure what he did this season to spend so much time out of the game day squad. Will probably tear it up at the Rebels next year & end up in the Wallabies.
Just my opinion.
1. Fotuaika: Had an OK game, held his own in scrums & did some useful carries.
2. Amosa: Good parting game, one of the best for the Reds all season & last night.
3. Tupou: Has been getting worse game by game of late. Maybe he is sick, or saving himself for Wallabies.
4. Blyth: Did little in his 53 minutes - 4m in carries, 7 tackles. Reds are back to having a real problem in 2nd row. Uru or Smith would have been much better options. Not sure what is going on with Uru?
5. Loto: Ok Game, nothing outstanding however.
6. Scott-Young: Good solid performance, one of the better performers on the night, low tackle count - 3 with 2 missed. Has improved his ball carrying.
7. Wright: Reds have got themselves in a real situation here. Compelled to play the captain, when he is one of the worst performers on the paddock. Not even influential at club level, let alone TT Super Rugby. Completely overhyped.
8. Wilson: Great Game, Great player, one of the few up to international level. Really lifts to the occasion.
9. McDermott: Good game, mainly due to his running, sniping & quick mind. Kicks fairly ordinary, passing not as crisp as Sorovi however.
10. Hegarty: Terrible game, kicking was woeful, right from the first failed kick-off.
11. Daugunu: Good in attack when he got the opportunity. Like the rest of the backs, terrible in defence. The Backs missed around 25 tackles. Not to mention the ones they didn't even attempt to make.
12, 14, 15: Henry, Flook, Grealy: Boys playing against men, and it really showed last night. All have potential to be great players, but need more time playing Prem Grade, or NRC. Stop hyping these players up so early.
13. Paisami: The Hunter is now the hunted. Ok in attack, terrible defence. Suffered from having Henry inside him.
16. Asiata: Only got 8 minutes.
17. Hoopert: Scrum went downhill big time when he came on. Has been getting outclassed regularly at Club level, not sure how he earned a call up.
18. Nonggorr: Only 11 minutes.
19. Smith: Should have started, unless Uru was in side.
20. McReight: Not sure what he did in his time out of the squad to convince Reds he had learned his lesson. Did little in his 27 minutes, which should have been enough time to do something. In fact in a combined 107 minutes on the field, the Reds two "Wallaby" No.7's managed 10 carries for 23 metres, 13 tackles, 4 missed tackles & one Turnover. Can't see how either could be favoured for Wallaby selection.
21. Thomas: No field time. Bizzare to select 3 half backs however. Same comments as 12, 13, 15.
22. Creighton: Only 5 min. Congrats on the cap. Has looked good at club level, so deserved.
23. Sorovi: Final game for the Reds. Not sure what he did this season to spend so much time out of the game day squad. Will probably tear it up at the Rebels next year & end up in the Wallabies.
Just my opinion.
Cancelled Account
Desmond Connor (43)
Be careful talking the facts instead of what the posters want to hear. Good summary.
I thought Hoopert went ok but wasn’t impressed with Fotuaika. It was Hooperts best delivery in the past 2 years following his neck injury. I saw some confidence that has been missing.
The injuries in the backline has really exhausted our depth. Agree, the players you mentioned are at best Prem grade ATM. If they can’t shine in Prems they’re not worthy of Super Rugby.
Didn’t realise Sorovi had been shafted. God help us if McDermott gets injured.
I thought Hoopert went ok but wasn’t impressed with Fotuaika. It was Hooperts best delivery in the past 2 years following his neck injury. I saw some confidence that has been missing.
The injuries in the backline has really exhausted our depth. Agree, the players you mentioned are at best Prem grade ATM. If they can’t shine in Prems they’re not worthy of Super Rugby.
Didn’t realise Sorovi had been shafted. God help us if McDermott gets injured.
The Nomad
Bob Davidson (42)
You are allowed to deliberately knock the ball back towards your own try line, but you can’t deliberately knock it dead
Up the Guts
Steve Williams (59)
Refereeing just a total shambles across the board this comp. Blatant incompetency aided and abetted by an apparent lack of formal directives on how the games should be officiated compared to the preceding separate domestic competitions.
On a more positive note, performances like Wilson’s are giving me some confidence that when we assemble our best 23 we will be, at the least, competitive in this year’s test matches.
On a more positive note, performances like Wilson’s are giving me some confidence that when we assemble our best 23 we will be, at the least, competitive in this year’s test matches.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
That's right, you can't knock it dead or into touch with hand. You never have been allowed to.