Tri Nations Game 6 - Wallabies vs All Blacks - Saturday 27 August 2011 - 3N2011

[liquor box]

If JOC (James O'Connor) is missing and QC (Quade Cooper) kicks how different is the score going to be? Even if there was a 10% difference between the two and they had 10 shots per game it is only 2 or 3 points. I realise that this can possibly cost a game, but are we really setting a goal to only win by 2 points?

I like winning a close game as much as anyone, but we I think the kicking difference if often overrated.

If QC (Quade Cooper) kicks 8/10 and JOC (James O'Connor) kicks 9/10 then we are scoring plenty of points and there is a 10% difference. I have never been a fan of blaming kickers for losing a game, it is 5 seconds out of 80 minutes and there are always other problems that cause a loss, mainly not contesting for the ball hard enough, or dropping a ball cold.

I dont see us winning the World Cup and all reflecting on how JOC (James O'Connor)'s kicking is what made the difference.

 

[liquor box]

I can't believe Sharpes been left out again. There must be something more to this. Does he have a poor record against NZ teams or something? I don't get it. He and Horwill were immense in SA
I hope O'connor is put on toilet duty a month "WIPERS!"

Maybe Robbie want to limit the All Blacks exposure to him, not the other way around.

 

[Lindommer]

Word is that O'Conner will be dropped with AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) moving to the wing

so ............

9. Genia
10. Cooper
11. Ioane
12. McCabe
13. Fainga'a
14. Ashley-Cooper
15. Beale

I'd be happier with Fainga'a at 12 and McCabe at 13. Finger's the better defender and McCabe's the better straight and hard runner. Plus McCabe would (hopefully) get to link with his fellow Brumby, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper).

 

[Richo]

Thanks Jumpers. You've really added something to the analysis of the game. And why do you write like that? Are you cockney?

It's kind of entertaining in a very bizarre way. Once the post count hits 15 or so, though...

 

[ChargerWA]

If JOC (James O'Connor) is missing and QC (Quade Cooper) kicks how different is the score going to be? Even if there was a 10% difference between the two and they had 10 shots per game it is only 2 or 3 points. I realise that this can possibly cost a game, but are we really setting a goal to only win by 2 points?

I like winning a close game as much as anyone, but we I think the kicking difference if often overrated.

If QC (Quade Cooper) kicks 8/10 and JOC (James O'Connor) kicks 9/10 then we are scoring plenty of points and there is a 10% difference. I have never been a fan of blaming kickers for losing a game, it is 5 seconds out of 80 minutes and there are always other problems that cause a loss, mainly not contesting for the ball hard enough, or dropping a ball cold.

I dont see us winning the World Cup and all reflecting on how JOC (James O'Connor)'s kicking is what made the difference.

But the difference between 2/4 and 3/4 is much more important, If your kicker is getting 10 kicks at goal, your a good chance of winning.

It is also about morale. Look what the Boks did to the blacks. The black played all the rugby, SA just battled dwon to the 48 metre mark and let Steyn kick the penalties. Very demoralising.

 

[RuckinGoodStats]

But the difference between 2/4 and 3/4 is much more important, If your kicker is getting 10 kicks at goal, your a good chance of winning.

It is also about morale. Look what the Boks did to the blacks. The black played all the rugby, SA just battled dwon to the 48 metre mark and let Steyn kick the penalties. Very demoralising.

You might want to read this piece I did for G&GR on who should be kicking for the Wallabies. It has a stats breakdown and factors in difficulty. There are certain places on the field where you could put the farm on Cooper making the kick. The earlier piece I wrote compares Carter and Steyn Check it out http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/stats-who-should-kick-for-the-wallabies/

 

[RuckinGoodStats]

A couple of stats for the forum to think about. If it comes down to penalty kicks, you need penalties to be awarded...

In 2011 (so 4 games for both teams) the Wallabies are conceding an average of 8.8 penalties per game compared to the All Blacks' 7.75.

The Wallabies are conceding 6.8 at the ruck, All Blacks 5.5. The bulk of the All Black remaining penalites are conceded at scrum, so 1.75 per game, on average.

The All Blacks are conceding on average 1.25 penalties per game inside their own 22, with 3.5 between their 22 and halfway.

 

[Dan54]

Personally don't think Hiigers is a No 8, but as a All Black supporter ,I would be very happy if he started there, as I think he is a liabilty at scrum time at 8.

 

[liquor box]

But the difference between 2/4 and 3/4 is much more important, If your kicker is getting 10 kicks at goal, your a good chance of winning.

It is also about morale. Look what the Boks did to the blacks. The black played all the rugby, SA just battled dwon to the 48 metre mark and let Steyn kick the penalties. Very demoralising.

There is a huge difference, one is 50% and one is 75%. I dont think the difference is that much between them.

 

[Athilnaur]

On the topic of no 8, is it just me or does Samo put an impressive amount of power in when he packs? I am no Thomond, but to me it looks like hes transmitting a lot of power in.

 

[Searsy]

On the topic of no 8, is it just me or does Samo put an impressive amount of power in when he packs? I am no Thomond, but to me it looks like hes transmitting a lot of power in.

I would think Number 8 is more to do with keeping the second rowers asses together than offering too much push.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I would think Number 8 is more to do with keeping the second rowers asses together than offering too much push.

Chris Hickey has been quoted as holding a similar opinion. Mind if I ask why the No. 8 shouldn't be expected to contribute to the overall objective of driving the scrum forward?

 

[Scotty]

Good number 8s certainly do contribute to the power of the scrum, although most seem to contribute a lot less on opposition ball than on their own (as they are watching for runners instead of pushing - which isn't an issue most of the time). If the scrum is solid and the defensive team has their no. 8 meercatting, it is the perfect time for the attacking no. 8 to join the effort!

 

[RedsHappy]

But the difference between 2/4 and 3/4 is much more important, If your kicker is getting 10 kicks at goal, your a good chance of winning. It is also about morale. Look what the Boks did to the blacks. The black played all the rugby, SA just battled dwon to the 48 metre mark and let Steyn kick the penalties. Very demoralising.

Agree ChargerWA. I am mightily surprised that anyone could argue that place and drop goal kicking success rates are not highly important to Test team outcomes, especially at RWCs. Just consider: Flatley's superb kicking contribution to the RWC Final 2003, and Mortlock's unfortunate last penalty goal miss in RWC 2007 v England.....

 

[Scotty]

If Cooper gets his first kick, then he is good, if he misses it, he is bad. Lets hope he gets it.

It is the only time on a rugby field when he has time to think (apart from when a big forward is running at him), and I reckon that is the reason he sometimes bottles it. Just kick the thing QC (Quade Cooper), don't think about it.

 

[kiap]

Good number 8s certainly do contribute to the power of the scrum, although most seem to contribute a lot less on opposition ball than on their own (as they are watching for runners instead of pushing - which isn't an issue most of the time). If the scrum is solid and the defensive team has their no. 8 meercatting, it is the perfect time for the attacking no. 8 to join the effort!

On their own feed, Samo also seemed to be good at getting the ball when the scrum was back-pedalling.

 

[darkhorse]

I have said it before, but I agree with Sharpie being axed against NZ. If you had to pick a weakness in his game, and atm there isn't much, it would be his lack of work in the tight and being slightly less effective at the ruck.

At the end of the day that's where the game is generally won and lost against the blacks. Although Dingo seemed to take this to far last game and we were left with no one to get us over the ad line.

IMO if Sharpie is sacrificed then a hard running 8 is needed instead of McCalman for balance. Take your pick, but please not McCalman.

 

[Gnostic]

I have said it before, but I agree with Sharpie being axed against NZ. If you had to pick a weakness in his game, and atm there isn't much, it would be his lack of work in the tight and being slightly less effective at the ruck.

At the end of the day that's where the game is generally won and lost against the blacks. Although Dingo seemed to take this to far last game and we were left with no one to get us over the ad line.

IMO if Sharpie is sacrificed then a hard running 8 is needed instead of McCalman for balance. Take your pick, but please not McCalman.

I can't believe that this crappy myth still gets any credence. The scrum went fairly well against the same Bok scrum that breast the ABs this week, when Smit came on in the 2nd half. The work Sharpe does everywhere except the scrum gets discounted, especially at the lineout and maul yet people are happy to select Alexander on the same basis.

 

[qwerty51]

I can't believe that this crappy myth still gets any credence. The scrum went fairly well against the same Bok scrum that breast the ABs this week, when Smit came on in the 2nd half. The work Sharpe does everywhere except the scrum gets discounted, especially at the lineout and maul yet people are happy to select Alexander on the same basis.

The scrum went well against SA because Smit was playing tighthead. The AB scrum went bad because Whitelock and Williams were the locks as well as Afoa and Woodcock who were just coming back from injuries.

 

[barbarian]

The myth that Sharpe gets through no work in the tight was pretty thoroughly debunked by Austin's latest stats. Especially considering Simmons' lack of impact in tight against the Blacks in NZ. I can only buy this decision if Vicks gets a start. If they throw back in Simmons I will be annoyed.