To all the nah sayers

[fatprop]

I am getting over the "misery" being laid over Aus rugby.

To me we aren't that far away.

No one has spanked us (we have been in every game) and we are playing the two best sides in the world, not two crap sides.

Think about it, we were getting done in the scrums and we had the ability to bring on a young guy and gain near parity at scrum time. How long has it been since we have had the depth (and confidence) to do that.

We were without our captain and talisman against the ABs in Mortlock, his replacement was near the best in our side.

Can we have some positives every so often?

 

[D]

I agree.

 

[Moses]

Well said fatprop,
Exactly what I've been thinking, and I'm glad you articulated it.

We've also had a pretty bad run of luck. Joubert in Auckland, Mortlock in Cape Town, Barnes in Sydney..

I have no doubt that had Barnes not been injured in Sydney we would have won the game. Poor positional kicking from Giteau is what lost it for us.

 

[fatprop]

Mate if Barnes was playing, he would have been in the pocket for a droppy and that would have opened up the field as well.

 

[RugbyReg]

Can we have some positives every so often?

Ok:

- James O'Connor has handled his leap into the big time very impressively for someone still at school a couple of years ago.
- Great to see Peter Hynes back. I had forgotten how hard he ran and how often he invariably beats the first tackle. Oh and that he is a winger who actually chases a kick.
- Adam Ashley-Cooper remains potentially a great player. If he can get his position and keep it (13 I think) then he could be one of our best.
- Gits's goal kicking is brilliant at the moment.
- Burgo is one of the best running scrummies in the game.
- George Smith is a freak. It is simply ridiculous how good he STILL is having debuted in pro rugby in 2000 and, from what I can remember, rarely had a serious injury.
- Maybe no one else can see it, but I can see Jimmy Horwill getting back to his 2008 form. He really is a physical presence, which we need more of.
- Rocky somewhat proved the hype last week.
- I see great things for Ben Alexander and Tatafu Polata-Nau.
- Benn Robinson is quite possibly the best loosehead prop in the world
- can't wait to get Ione back in contention.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

All very good points and things to look up to - I ask one question - aside from leading in recent tests - have we though been in control or has the lead materialised through other means?
personally, I don't think we have actually controlled any of the 3N games - we have just 'been there' as far as points are concerned and that is similar to winning ugly - itis not dominance buthanging in.

 

[Newb]

All very good points and things to look up to - I ask one question - aside from leading in recent tests - have we though been in control or has the lead materialised through other means?
personally, I don't think we have actually controlled any of the 3N games - we have just 'been there' as far as points are concerned and that is similar to winning ugly - itis not dominance buthanging in.

i'd agree with that point of view. i think there have been times where the wallabies have been on the brink of dominance in a match but still have yet to achieve it. seems like the try to put it away is always just out of reach.

case in point: barnes not hitting mortlock back on the inside a couple games back.

noddy, agree with all of those.

 

[Scarfman]

Everyone's bagging the backs but I still think that with a tiny bit of pressure relieved, we have the best attacking backline in the 3N.

Whenever the piggies get some go-forward there's no doubt that points will come pronto.

We might need to switch 10 and 12, though.

 

[fatprop]

Everyone's bagging the backs but I still think that with a tiny bit of pressure relieved, we have the best attacking backline in the 3N.

Whenever the piggies get some go-forward there's no doubt that points will come pronto.

We might need to switch 10 and 12, though.

Barnes is too negative at 10, his first option is to kick. I like them switching

 

[Reddy!]

Everyone's bagging the backs but I still think that with a tiny bit of pressure relieved, we have the best attacking backline in the 3N.

Whenever the piggies get some go-forward there's no doubt that points will come pronto.

We might need to switch 10 and 12, though.

Barnes is too negative at 10, his first option is to kick. I like them switching

I think the whole thing about Barnes not having a running game and only kicks is a bit of a myth. While he was on in the first half he was one of our main attacking threats, and broke the line once or twice if I recall. He also did this in Auckland where one of his runs resulted in a try, and the other nearly set up a try. Even back in the 2007 quarter final, a swift run by Barnes set up our only try in that game. Barnes runs this season have often been more effective than Giteaus, who is apparently the better attacking player. Giteau often gets smashed in the tackle, Barnes doesn't.

I think our back 3 (who are suppose to be better running options than Berrick) kick the ball more often. Even AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Burgess are kicking the ball sometimes when they should just run or hold onto it. These players also kicks are often poor as well. Barnes usually kicks well.

What I'm trying to say is that Barnes is no Moryne Steyn, Jonny Wilkinson or any other generic South African flyhalf.

 

[louie]

Can we have some positives every so often?

- the world cup is still 2 years away. plenty of time.

- next the Brumbies and Tahs will btoh be the strongest we've had in years. At Super 14 level i don't we've had two teams that have both been as strong at the same time as they will next year. it will have a massive impact on Australian rugby if both of them do well.

- we have new side coming in. more depth.

- a lot of our talent is still young. Cooper, Beale, Alexander, Christian, Genia, Pocock, Matt T, etc are all still young and developing well. plus are lot of them are being tried and are having some success in new position.

 

[JJJ]

I'm sorry, I'm trying. Our scrum is better. That's the best I can do. But when the scrum is so much less important than the lineout (which has gone backwards at a rate of knots), it isn't much. It wouldn't hurt so much if this were a typical AB outfit beating us. But it's the weakest AB side in years, and they'll only get stronger in the lead-up to the WC. We should be 2-0 up on them. Instead we just can't get over the line.

 

[cyclopath]

Sorry, but my cup is also half-empty.
As JJJ said, a relatively weak AB side that should have been put away twice.
All very well being close to # 1 and 2 in the world (I 'll grant that) but the errors that plagued our play last year do not seem to be getting fixed, rather becoming fixed in our style of play. Lack of talent is not the issue, so that is a positive.
Lack of application seems to be, and I really thought this would be one of Deans' strengths - moulding the character of the team in the way the Crusaders always seemed to have a bloody-minded dedication to their cause. Even when they lost talent, the new guys seemed to have attitude in spades. Smith, Robbo, Elsom and probably Moore and Horwill have it, not sure about the rest.
Sorry for bringing down the tone of the thread. :'(

 

[rugbywhisperer]

I really don't like taking a paragraph to say what can be done in one sentence - despite being a 56 year old businessman and pretending law student -
GUYS - NO MATTER HOW APPEALING OUR FORWARD AND BACKS SEEM TO BE, NO MATTER HOW PRETTY THEY ARE, NO MATTER HOW NICE THEY MIGHT LOOK IN NEARLY SCORING THAT TRY - THE POINT IS - THEY CAN'T, NOT WITH ANY CONSISTENCY OR CERTAINTLY - and quite frankly if we happen to pull off a win tomorrow night it wil be a fluke - I am so shit scared of what we have become.
Short term results are for me now so irrelevant -and I see no long term program in place to remedy the situation.
We are now on a very slippery slippery-slide.

 

[PaarlBok]

OK pardon me, coming from the opposition to lay a few eggs here. Like someone qoute earlier there aint much between the teams. I havent watch last weekend test, so I cant comment on that one but I have watch the first one and I thought the Wallabies was quite impressive. The Newlands one I watch live and thought the Wallabies has taken a step back but to start compare the teams or players or situation is a bit difficult. The one thing I do think the Bokke have in spare on the All Blacks and Wallabies is between the ears. That you get from experiense and you lot have to be pasience with your coach. Myself rate him up there and he may get the result on the weekend, if he dont, he will just go back and work a bit harder to get there. As a full green blooded Bok supporter I am not confident about this weekend clash, not becuase I think the Bokke have it all in their favour, player skills, gameplan, confident, exct and that is the scaring part for myself. I am worried as hell because I know as a x player that anything can happen between these three teams and the team that is better and hungrier on the day, will win. So good luck and your team need you now more then ever to support them.

 

[Moses]

Here's a positive... the Saffas had to sell their sole to Europe to put together a champion team, while the ARU has stuck to their guns and will only play blokes who have a super 14 team.

 

[Spook]

OK pardon me, coming from the opposition to lay a few eggs here. Like someone qoute earlier there aint much between the teams. I havent watch last weekend test, so I cant comment on that one but I have watch the first one and I thought the Wallabies was quite impressive. The Newlands one I watch live and thought the Wallabies has taken a step back but to start compare the teams or players or situation is a bit difficult. The one thing I do think the Bokke have in spare on the All Blacks and Wallabies is between the ears. That you get from experiense and you lot have to be pasience with your coach. Myself rate him up there and he may get the result on the weekend, if he dont, he will just go back and work a bit harder to get there. As a full green blooded Bok supporter I am not confident about this weekend clash, not becuase I think the Bokke have it all in their favour, player skills, gameplan, confident, exct and that is the scaring part for myself. I am worried as hell because I know as a x player that anything can happen between these three teams and the team that is better and hungrier on the day, will win. So good luck and your team need you now more then ever to support them.

PB, the Boks have leaders through out their side. F du Preez is a handful.

 

[spectator]

I am getting over the "misery" being laid over Aus rugby.

To me we aren't that far away.

No one has spanked us (we have been in every game) and we are playing the two best sides in the world, not two crap sides.

Think about it, we were getting done in the scrums and we had the ability to bring on a young guy and gain near parity at scrum time. How long has it been since we have had the depth (and confidence) to do that.

We were without our captain and talisman against the ABs in Mortlock, his replacement was near the best in our side.

Can we have some positives every so often?

Well said Fatprop!

 

[farva]

Im not sure I totally agree with the whole, this is the weakest ABs team in years.

Dan Carter is back now and he had a huge game last weekend and it felt like he hadnt missed the game at all.
McCaw is not up to his top standards but he is still an amazing player and still one of the best opensides in world rugby.
Brad Thorn is one of the hardest working locks I have ever seen. He is huge, and with Isaac Ross they have an excellent young lock coming through.
Their front row is still very good Tony Woodcock is not just a technical and strong prop, he is smart, and thats were he gets it over his SA counterpart. Owen Franks had a huge game the other week and as a tighthead managed to still be very effective around the field - not many tigh heads can do that.
Conrad Smith, while injured right now, is one of the best 2 or 3 13s now. Nonu is getting back to a bit of form. Muliaina is one of the best fullbacks the ABs have ever had. He isnt in the form he was last year, but I would love to have him in gold. Ditto for Sivi.

It aint a weak team, regardless of what people say.

And shit, the Boks squad is immense.

 

[Scotty]

fp,

I think the most disappointing thing with the Wallabies appears to be mental attitude (maybe mixed with physical fitness). We have shown in the first 30 minutes of each game (and the last 20 vs the Boks) that we can indeed compete and even dominate on occasions. The way we started in the first game it looked like we could make breaks at will and would have ended up with a 4 try bonus point win. Why can't we keep our performance level? Why can't we react when the other team changes tactics? When are our leaders (not just Smith) going to put their hands up and drag this team forward?

Maybe it will just need a good win to get the confidence to close out games, and then we can get on some sort of roll, but at the moment it is a big maybe.