Time to revamp cards to Yellow, Orange, Red ?

[CTPE]

Reflecting on the three cards given by the ref during the Wobs v Boks test on the weekend I wonder if it's time for the IRB to consider revamping the current card system as I just can't reconcile Vermeulen's deliberate knockdown, Hooper's accidental dangerous tackle and Van Der Merwe's leading elbow to the head tackle all being worth the same penalty of ten in the bin.

Perhaps giving a referee three choices rather than just the current two of yellow or red may result in on field offences being more appropriately punished. I'll suggest the following to see where it takes us:

Yellow = 10 mins
Orange = 15 mins
Red = Dismissal

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Which offences would be yellow and which would be orange?

 

[JSRF10]

Orange would be used as a cop out for red cards IMO, wouldn't be a fan of that at all

 

[Braveheart81]

Surely it's the use of the cards rather than the cards which are the problem.

van der Merwe could have easily been given a red card. Yellow was warranted at the very least.
Hooper could have been let off with a warning and just a penalty.
Vermuelen probably deserved the yellow card for cynical play knocking the ball down. This could have also just been a penalty though.

 

[CTPE]

Yellow card = cynical play (deliberate knock down, hand in the ruck or offside to slow down attacking play), 2nd penalty same offence by same player - eg not rolling away.

Orange card = significant offence not warranting dismissal.

Red card = serious offence warranting dismissal.

 

[Brian Westlake]

If you think back to the fivekick days of the five AND ten minute sin bins, the five was used for cynical play in the opps defensive half occasionally and it had to be an absolute clanger for a ten minute. Usually within 3 mtr of the goal line. ALL professional fouls should be binned or sent accordingly, but in the current day game especially between SA and NZ etc it would be rugby 5's

 

[Bardon]

No matter how the card system was changed there would still be inconsistencies and arguments about which card someone should ave gotten.

The only difference is that people would be more frustrated as they would feel that X player who got an orange card should have only be a penalty and Y player who got a yellow in a different game was a more sever offense and should have gotten orange etc. etc.

However we change the system the officials won't win. People will just have more things t complain about since having more cards mean the lines between each level of offense becomes even more blurred.

 

[Dam0]

I have said before that 10 minutes is too great a punishment for cynical/repeat infringements and that is why they don't get used enough. Give the ref a green card worth 5 minutes (or until a try is scored) and you will see refs make much better use of them.

 

[Rob42]

I have said before that 10 minutes is too great a punishment for cynical/repeat infringements and that is why they don't get used enough. Give the ref a green card worth 5 minutes (or until a try is scored) and you will see refs make much better use of them.

10 minutes is really not too long. It's surprising how often there is little impact on the scoreboard whilst the offender is sitting on the sideline. Keep it simple, YC and RC, and don't hesitate to go YC for cynical fouls.

 

[Dam0]

10 minutes is really not too long. It's surprising how often there is little impact on the scoreboard whilst the offender is sitting on the sideline. Keep it simple, YC and RC, and don't hesitate to go YC for cynical fouls.

That is the problem. Referees do hesitate to do it because it is perceived to be too long. You can argue all you like about how it isn't too long, or that it shouldn't be too long, or that 10 minutes does fit the crime, but the reality is that history and practice shows otherwise.

 

[Blake]

My Beef with the card system is with the red card as it is a different punishment every game, depending on how long is left. I would not be against a system where a red = 20 minutes off, with the particular player receiving it not being allowed back on the field.

EG: I didn't agree in principle with the Red against Warburton in the 2011 RWC. (Though I thought it was the correct decision in terms of the current rules)

 

[Rob42]

That is the problem. Referees do hesitate to do it because it is perceived to be too long. You can argue all you like about how it isn't too long, or that it shouldn't be too long, or that 10 minutes does fit the crime, but the reality is that history and practice shows otherwise.

Yeah, but that's MY point - history and practice show that it is actually rare for the score to blow out due to a YC. I think it's a very useful punishment - it is seen as a serious condemnation of the offender, and must be very painful for them having to watch for 10 minutes, but in reality it is usually not worth much more to the non-offending side than a straight penalty.

And five minutes? One minute for a kick at goal, one minute for a kick-off, so they're off for just 3 minutes in many cases. Could be just one passage of play. Keep it simple.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Water Polo have the exclusion which works sends the bad boy to the "sin bin" until the team in possession shoot for goal.

They can then join at the next play, regardless of how successful the goal shot was.

It gives a quick tactical advantage to the team in possession, but if they bugger up the advantage, then the "offender" is allowed back into the game.

This could work, but there would almost be a continual procession of rugby players to the naughty boys chair.

Nah. Keep it simple. Red and Yellow cards. Just use them better.

 

[terry j]

I like the basketball method (not that I know much to be truthful) but something like 'five team fouls' and then the penalty, whatever it is, occurs.

In union they seem to get away with it because the offence 'is not the same as the earlier one'. Who cares, a good team will adapt and simply not commit the same 'foul' but a new one, or maybe because it is a different player (tho as I said often the cap will be warned 'don't commit that (particular) offence again'). Bugger it, just count up the number of 'fouls' regardless of the type and so punish the serial offending team.

If it were an orange card (five min in the bin say) but also unlimited in number, then a team could (rightly) end up with two or more in the bin either simultaneously or spread out over the game.

The constant 'fouling' is a blight, and some teams seem to get away with constantly doing it. Ruins the game.

 

[CTPE]

So putting aside the colour of the cards should there be three time periods of 5, 10 and 15 mins or longer?

 

[Zander]

Red cards ruin games. I do not care how bad an offence is, suspend them for months on review after the game but do not ruin games because of one person's actions. A red card after 10 minutes is so different to a red card after 70 mins. I'd like to see a maximum amount of 20 mins spent off the field.

This is going to sound really silly but how about a punishment that isn't defined by minutes? What about for repeated infringements you make the player run around the rectangle field once or twice before he's allowed back on? Instead of a nice refreshing break he will be fatigued. Obviously the quicker you do it the quicker you'll be back on but the more tired..

 

[Hugh Jarse]

You may be on to something @Zander.

I'm now thinking toss the cards away and introduce Drinking Game rules. Rugby and beer drinking have been good partners over the years. For every penalty, the offender has to down a Schooner, For a YC offence it is Jug, and Red Card is a Schooner of Bundy Rum or a Yard glass. Player is not allowed back on to the field until they have consumed the full penalty with no spillage.

Wouldn't you want to see that? Imagine Sir Rutchie wobbling around on the field as crissed as a picket? The Post match interviews would be beauties.

 

[No4918]

I have said before that 10 minutes is too great a punishment for cynical/repeat infringements and that is why they don't get used enough. Give the ref a green card worth 5 minutes (or until a try is scored) and you will see refs make much better use of them.

Hell no. The rules around this need to be clearer. I'd like to see the third such offence within your half in any 20 minute period automatically binned. Cynical play is a blight on the game.

 

[Lindommer]

I'm now thinking toss the cards away and introduce Drinking Game rules. Rugby and beer drinking have been good partners over the years. For every penalty, the offender has to down a Schooner, For a YC offence it is Jug, and Red Card is a Schooner of Bundy Rum or a Yard glass.

What's wrong with offenders choosing a glass of wine?

 

[Braveheart81]

Red cards ruin games. I do not care how bad an offence is, suspend them for months on review after the game but do not ruin games because of one person's actions. A red card after 10 minutes is so different to a red card after 70 mins. I'd like to see a maximum amount of 20 mins spent off the field.

But then you get back to the position where the team who is on the receiving end of the foul/dangerous play gets potentially less benefit than the teams who have to play that team in the coming weeks.

I agree that red cards can ruin games and can effectively make it impossible for one side to win the game, but I still think they have their place.

I think you are treading on very shaky territory though when you start weighing the entertainment value of the game more heavily than the players' safety.