Time to cull the NRC?

[Mangoman]

Is it time already for the NRC to disappear?

My thoughts are a resounding yes.

Why not drop the competition back to the remaining 4 super rugby teams and have them play a home and away series (pre game to the Super match)? To me it makes too much sense to drop the amount of teams from 8 to 4 (or even 5 if you incorporate the chopped Super franchise).

Positives I could see is that;

- no games at "suburban" venues on a weeknight that all of 2000 people turn up to (let's face it, the Tahs have enough of a problem getting a decent crowd to Allianz).

- thinning the player pool to create a higher level of competition

- Fox are already at the ground so TV coverage isn't an issue if it's needed

- Waratahs "A" or Reds "A" sides train with and against the super rugby side to create competition and raise the level of play between players vying for positions in the "1st grade" side

I know it's not the perfect solution but it's better than 1000 people showing up to Brookvale Oval on a wet Thursday night in August when the public couldn't care less about rugby.

Happy to hear thoughts/ideas/criticism or anything really. Let the ideas flow!

 

[kiap]

Pulver's "Super B" curtain-raiser proposal.

Mods, please merge this with the Where to for Super Rugby? thread.

 

[Slim 293]

No...........

No no no no no no.........

Nooooooooooooooooo............

Yeah, nah.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Is it time already for the NRC to disappear?

My thoughts are a resounding yes.

Why not drop the competition back to the remaining 4 super rugby teams and have them play a home and away series (pre game to the Super match)? To me it makes too much sense to drop the amount of teams from 8 to 4 (or even 5 if you incorporate the chopped Super franchise).

Positives I could see is that;

- no games at "suburban" venues on a weeknight that all of 2000 people turn up to (let's face it, the Tahs have enough of a problem getting a decent crowd to Allianz).

- thinning the player pool to create a higher level of competition

- Fox are already at the ground so TV coverage isn't an issue if it's needed

- Waratahs "A" or Reds "A" sides train with and against the super rugby side to create competition and raise the level of play between players vying for positions in the "1st grade" side

I know it's not the perfect solution but it's better than 1000 people showing up to Brookvale Oval on a wet Thursday night in August when the public couldn't care less about rugby.

Happy to hear thoughts/ideas/criticism or anything really. Let the ideas flow!

No. Simple as that. I'd be open to it being just the 5 franchises plus Fiji played over two full home and away rounds using Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra, Melbourne and Perth. But eliminating it is a big no.

 

[Sully]

Why scrap something that cost us nothing.

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

 

[Brumby Runner]

Wouldn't mind seeing the "B" teams play as the curtain raiser to the Super Rugby derbies, but retain the NRC at the end of the Super Rugby season for all the reasons it exists today - developing premier grade players to compete at a higher level, talent identification, raising standards generally by mixing next level players with Super Rugby and fringe Wallaby standard players, filling a gap in the rugby calendar etc.

 

[TOCC]

Personally I prefer to have the players who would form the 'B teams' out playing club rugby

 

[Pfitzy]

- thinning the player pool to create a higher level of competition

And leaving club players to cool their heels in a substandard competition.

The NRC gives club players a chance to shine next to full professionals, and more importantly gives coaches a chance to show their wares. The issue right now is the NRC isn't long enough to get combinations together.

We shouldn't be cutting back the NRC - we should be extending the season to allow better depth generation and pathway for players, coaches, and referees to get better.

 

[Juan Cote]

Scrap it.

The depth argument for it doesn't work when Aus rugby still needs to bring back old stagers from OS or sign international players to fill teams.

Last year the average score across all NRC matches was 70 pts/game which shows defence is an after thought. Yes I get it that tries are worth more so even factoring that in, it's still a big number.

What are all Aust teams struggling with? Defence, so don't look to the NRC as a breeding ground for a new approach.

It's failed to capture the imagination of the rugby public and it's a drain on resources.

Sure it gives some club players a chance, but with 8 teams, just like having 5 super rugby teams, the talent is so diluted it doesn't offer the challenge and chance to extend talent like it should.

It's got to go.

 

[Brumby Runner]

JC, I'd suggest the lower quality of defense in the NRC is somewhat contributed to by the change to the scoring system. Play to the scoring system in place in higher levels of rugby, and it just might meet its objective of readying club players for higher levels of rugby.

However, even saying that, there has been any number of NRC new players going on to play at Super Rugby level, and on to Wallabies, eg, Hodge, Powell etc. There are many.

Incidentally, does anyone remember the standouts in the ARC in 2017 who have made it at higher levels? At the time, I was very impressed with Higgers and Lucas from the Gold Coast and Lealiifano from the Vikings and Ben Alexander from the Central Coast team. Any others make it?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

We shouldn't be cutting back the NRC - we should be extending the season to allow better depth generation and pathway for players, coaches, and referees to get better.

Not saying I disagree but at whose cost would you expand it?

 

[Pfitzy]

Not saying I disagree but at whose cost would you expand it?

Club Rugby, obviously.

(cue outrage from the stalwarts)

Cut two teams from Premier Rugby competition to shorten it. Start it at the same time as Super Rugby so that there is a running pool of players with a bit of battle hardness to fill spots if needed.

Those extra few weeks can be used for NRC to get going and have a couple of extra weeks to get some gel. Ideally the timing would be in Test season so that we can have suitable levels of player ready to promotion as needs be.

Maybe at the same time, get some central contracting going, cut a couple of players from squads (why are they sitting there with suit and tie?) and think about making the model a bit leaner.

Last year the average score across all NRC matches was 70 pts/game which shows defence is an after thought. Yes I get it that tries are worth more so even factoring that in, it's still a big number.

What are all Aust teams struggling with? Defence, so don't look to the NRC as a breeding ground for a new approach.

Actually, the reason for the high scores was putting professional players up against clubbies.

Fitness IS Defence. Defence IS Fitness.

Very apparent in the first few seasons that the clubbies might start with a lot of piss and vinegar, but would be stuffed by the last 10 minutes of each half.

They're not going to get better playing Premier Rugby. Look at how many of these kids in the Reds lineup have fucking killed it at QLD Premier level, then broken down or been shown right up at professional level.

 

[wamberal]

I am a Club rugby stalwart, but I am a Wallabies stalwart primarily. Club rugby should be managed in such a way as to strengthen our national team stocks.


If that meant, for example, that my Club should be culled, and I was convinced that this would strengthen our national team, I would be all in favour of it.

 

[RugbyReg]

Scrap it.

The depth argument for it doesn't work when Aus rugby still needs to bring back old stagers from OS or sign international players to fill teams.

Last year the average score across all NRC matches was 70 pts/game which shows defence is an after thought. Yes I get it that tries are worth more so even factoring that in, it's still a big number.

What are all Aust teams struggling with? Defence, so don't look to the NRC as a breeding ground for a new approach.

It's failed to capture the imagination of the rugby public and it's a drain on resources.

Sure it gives some club players a chance, but with 8 teams, just like having 5 super rugby teams, the talent is so diluted it doesn't offer the challenge and chance to extend talent like it should.

It's got to go.

6 pnt tries rather than 5.

Lots of 'amateur' and young players.

short time together as a team

That's the reason for the the 'average 70 pnts a game' (what's wrong with a 36-34 pnt game anyway?)

There were some blow out scores, but not many. In fact I thought the defence really picked up last year.

All Aussie teams are struggling with far more than defence. Skills, fitness etc.

 

[amirite]

62 points scored per Shute Shield game, that's 8 point less than the NRC's average of 70.

Now if you presume there's 8-12 tries are scored per SS game and then look at the fact the NRC has 6 points tries, it's a nonsensical argument to say it's a bad thing or even really a notable one.

The NRC is doing it's job producing players and is cheap to run. It's particularly good for players playing outside of Sydney and Brisbane, so if you're at all passionate about rugby being a sport for all it makes sense.

My question is, what's the downside of the NRC other than it's not ideal for Sydney clubs?

 

[Brumby Runner]

I think the main downside is the scoring system. The 6 point try and 2 point for any goal has led to teams opting to almost always take penalty kicks for line when faced with an opportunity to take a penalty goal. I think it has a couple of consequences. The blow out in scores is one result and to many of us the greater the score (within reason) the poorer the game. More importantly, it has changed the mind set of teams and coaching staff to avoid penalty shots at goal, and I think that has had an affect on decision making in the Aus Super Rugby sides.

Would rather the scoring reflect the system at Super Rugby and test level, of as a compromise, to reduce the value of a try to 5.

 

[Pfitzy]

I take your point about the scoring system BR, but I prefer to think of NRC as needing to get players to a certain standard, and that means applying pressure - and under fatigue while we're at it.

I lament the loss of long range goal kicking, but am willing to prioritise lineout and skills execution under pressure over that

 

[Teh Other Dave]

I think the main downside is the scoring system. The 6 point try and 2 point for any goal has led to teams opting to almost always take penalty kicks for line when faced with an opportunity to take a penalty goal. I think it has a couple of consequences. The blow out in scores is one result and to many of us the greater the score (within reason) the poorer the game. More importantly, it has changed the mind set of teams and coaching staff to avoid penalty shots at goal, and I think that has had an affect on decision making in the Aus Super Rugby sides.

Would rather the scoring reflect the system at Super Rugby and test level, of as a compromise, to reduce the value of a try to 5.

Can't say I agree with that. Because the NRC only takes up a small portion of the year, NRC players will spend their pre-season and most of their season training with either their Premier club, or with their Super Rugby squad. So if test and provincial captains can't work out when to go for the 3, or can't maintain discipline within their opponent's kicking range, that probably still rests with the Super Rugby coaches, and also a lack of a coherent national coaching strategy.

The point system of the NRC creates situations where players are exposed to more attacking/defending situations under pressure, which can't really be replicated at contested training sessions. I think that's a good thing. Place kicking is something that is gained/lost in the hours after training.

Also bear in mind that the early years of Super 12 produced some epic blowouts (have a look at the 1996 season's scorelines). It didn't hurt the Boks, Blacks, or Wallabies, who were nearly unbeatable against NH teams in that era.

 

[Gnostic]

Club Rugby, obviously.



(cue outrage from the stalwarts)



Cut two teams from Premier Rugby competition to shorten it. Start it at the same time as Super Rugby so that there is a running pool of players with a bit of battle hardness to fill spots if needed.



Those extra few weeks can be used for NRC to get going and have a couple of extra weeks to get some gel. Ideally the timing would be in Test season so that we can have suitable levels of player ready to promotion as needs be.



Maybe at the same time, get some central contracting going, cut a couple of players from squads (why are they sitting there with suit and tie?) and think about making the model a bit leaner.











1. Actually, the reason for the high scores was putting professional players up against clubbies.



Fitness IS Defence. Defence IS Fitness.



Very apparent in the first few seasons that the clubbies might start with a lot of piss and vinegar, but would be stuffed by the last 10 minutes of each half.



2. They're not going to get better playing Premier Rugby. Look at how many of these kids in the Reds lineup have fucking killed it at QLD Premier level, then broken down or been shown right up at professional level.

1. What a crock. The biggest scorers and standouts were blokes like Simone, ah but he'd already been identified.......

2. How many have played full seasons at Premier level, without being dragged away on EPS duty or U20s etc. As for killing it, yeah right.

 

[Gnostic]

62 points scored per Shute Shield game, that's 8 point less than the NRC's average of 70.



Now if you presume there's 8-12 tries are scored per SS game and then look at the fact the NRC has 6 points tries, it's a nonsensical argument to say it's a bad thing or even really a notable one.



The NRC is doing it's job producing players and is cheap to run. It's particularly good for players playing outside of Sydney and Brisbane, so if you're at all passionate about rugby being a sport for all it makes sense.



My question is, what's the downside of the NRC other than it's not ideal for Sydney clubs?

These results are greatly skewed by the significant blow out games. Any discussion of statistics like this needs to be presented with the average and standard deviation.

What players has the NRC produced? Have they executed their skills at the required level? Were those identified already part of EPS squads?

The downside is the loss of Capital (both monetary and intangible) that could have gone to something that will actually succeed in the long term.