Tier 3.5 - An Alternative NRC

[Highlander35]

AFL State of origin doesn't work because it has 3 states on a relatively similar level, then the rest, and passion only really exist along Vic v SA/WA, not SA v WA.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Ok and there we have it a model for the future.

1. Wallabies
2. State of Origin Series
3. National Domestic Professional Competition (expanded NRC)
4. Super Rugby (Future Heinken Cup format)
5. Club Championship
6. Club Rugby

Would be much better model than current reliance on Super Rugby as only professional full season model below that.

 

[Slim 293]

Ok and there we have it a model for the future.

1. Wallabies
2. State of Origin Series
3. National Domestic Professional Competition (expanded NRC)
4. Super Rugby (Future Heinken Cup format)
5. Club Championship
6. Club Rugby

Would be much better model than current reliance on Super Rugby as only professional full season model below that.

A 'state of origin' type series could not coexist with our current Super Rugby teams..............

 

[Rugbynutter39]

A 'state of origin' type series could not coexist with our current Super Rugby teams......

Longer term would like to see super rugby morph into heinikin cup type thing.




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[dru]

Longer term would like to see super rugby morph into heinikin cup type thing.




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This would be the darth of Australian international rugby strength. The Wallabies ate barely holding quality in the current situation where players are honed in a high end competition where the average quality is pretty much as high as can be achieved with 5 teams in Aus.

If that morphs to 10 clubs (for instance) you have mathematically halved the international quality playing in the club comp on a team by team basis. The quality dives. Or alternatively the system fails to spread the talent more or less evenly and you end up with the haves and have nots in a lop sided comp where the same top teams go through each season. May as well stick with Super Rugby.

We dont have enough talent in Aus to maintain quality in the "Heinikin Cup Type Thing". We need a representational system to maintain quality with the depth of talent at our disposal.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

This would be the darth of Australian international rugby strength. The Wallabies ate barely holding quality in the current situation where players are honed in a high end competition where the average quality is pretty much as high as can be achieved with 5 teams in Aus.

If that morphs to 10 clubs (for instance) you have mathematically halved the international quality playing in the club comp on a team by team basis. The quality dives. Or alternatively the system fails to spread the talent more or less evenly and you end up with the haves and have nots in a lop sided comp where the same top teams go through each season. May as well stick with Super Rugby.

We dont have enough talent in Aus to maintain quality in the "Heinikin Cup Type Thing". We need a representational system to maintain quality with the depth of talent at our disposal.

Ok for league - so why not for rugby - and as stated long term plan - gradual expansion and improvement of 3rd tier Comp (which is currently nrc v2.0). No reason why long term we can't have same setup as Nh sides like England and France with strong professional national competition. But as I said long term plan that won't happen overnight ie 10 -20 year plan in the making that assumes growth in rugby participation from innovation and changes in rugby product (eg. Nrc point system changes, 7's etc etc - note need one of those etc's to be where they change the tide like bbl for cricket).

 

[dru]

Compare rugby player numbers in England to Australia. Then re-cast the thinking.

And then I would say that English rugby would be a lot stronger st international level with a representational system. But the have the numbers to pull it together - noting that few pundits suggest that the English professional national comp is better than Super Rugby.

NRL club quality is hardly close to the representational SOO.

France is a matter of funds to create quality and their national team suffers for it.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Compare rugby player numbers in England to Australia. Then re-cast the thinking.

And then I would say that English rugby would be a lot stronger st international level with a representational system. But the have the numbers to pull it together - noting that few pundits suggest that the English professional national comp is better than Super Rugby.

NRL club quality is hardly close to the representational SOO.

France is a matter of funds to create quality and their national team suffers for it.

Very aware of player numbers in England and hence why I state long term where if innovation happened I believe rugby could seriously make a dent and overtake league in oz. yes 20 year plan that would require some changes and major innovation. So no I won't change my thinking and let me have my dream of rugby being more than a minor Niche sport.


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[Rugbynutter39]

Very aware of player numbers in England and hence why I state long term where if innovation happened I believe rugby could seriously make a dent and overtake league in oz. yes 20 year plan that would require some changes and major innovation. So no I won't change my thinking and let me have my dream of rugby being more than a minor Niche sport.


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And to reiterate works for league but clearly would need to have participation and fan interest equivalent to what league gets. Big stretch - hence why 20 year plan!


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[dru]

Mate I share exactly the same dream - of rugby stepping out of being niche. I doubt its a small group in a place like this. Dont have a problem with a 20 year plan either.

But I'd also like to see us maintain quality at the national and international level while doing it. In the mean time by all means build the numbers, once we match England in numbers the point is mute.

For now funds wont increase to this Heinikin Cup thing whereas costs in increasing the number of professional teams certainly does.

There is a huge jump in quality from Premier rugby to NRC. And that hardly (at the moment anyway). then another huge gap in quality from NRC to Soop.

Spread that quality through the Premier clubs and there is a huge dumbing down of rugby. Reduce the Premier clubs in order to control this - and how fundamentally does that differ from NRC?

 

[dru]

NRL from recollection started from an existing (though struggling somewhat) professional Premier League in Qld and a professional Premier League in NSW. Was it Porky Morgan who funded the creation of the Broncos and split from Qld to join the NSW comp hence beginning the morph to the NRL. I'm not really interested in how accurate that is, but the fundamental issue is funding was required.

If the Premier rugby clubs in Qld and NSW are in this position, lets stop stuffing around and do it already. But of course to the proposers of tier 3.5 lite, the funding is an SEP. (Thank you Douglas Adams.) Somebody Elses Problem. Namely the ARU.

Lets take a very quick view of a possible strategy outline for this 20 year plan. Start with the NRC which is funded. Think about where we want it to go over the years and how funds would be generated to support it. But for Christ sake lets not destroy the start already made.

Grass Roots discussion is fabulous, and lets keep that going, major part of the way forward. But lets not hide from the real disgruntlement which is funds and who gets what.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Mate I share exactly the same dream - of rugby stepping out of being niche. I doubt its a small group in a place like this. Dont have a problem with a 20 year plan either.

But I'd also like to see us maintain quality at the national and international level while doing it. In the mean time by all means build the numbers, once we match England in numbers the point is mute.

For now funds wont increase to this Heinikin Cup thing whereas costs in increasing the number of professional teams certainly does.

There is a huge jump in quality from Premier rugby to NRC. And that hardly (at the moment anyway). then another huge gap in quality from NRC to Soop.

Spread that quality through the Premier clubs and there is a huge dumbing down of rugby. Reduce the Premier clubs in order to control this - and how fundamentally does that differ from NRC?

I accept dependent on super rugby but with growth and expansion of nrc whether that be version 2, 3, 4 etc dependency on super rugby will hopefully diminish and quality of 3rd tier improved and eventually whether that be in 10 or 20 years becomes full professional. I believe we are on the right path to start the journey but will need lot of hard work at different levels including grass roots and continued push and preparedness to be innovative with product and how marketed to create wider appeal to both potential participants and fans.


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[Rugbynutter39]

I accept dependent on super rugby but with growth and expansion of nrc whether that be version 2, 3, 4 etc dependency on super rugby will hopefully diminish and quality of 3rd tier improved and eventually whether that be in 10 or 20 years becomes full professional. I believe we are on the right path to start the journey but will need lot of hard work at different levels including grass roots and continued push and preparedness to be innovative with product and how marketed to create wider appeal to both potential participants and fans.


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and yes in 20 years like to see strong national professional domestic comp with either less oz teams in super rugby based on relegation / promotion system and/or heinkin cup type format


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[dru]

Like minded in the main, just not on promotion/relegation in the Aus rugby environment.

Have you looked at SARU/Currie Cup and how things have oanned out around promotion/relegation?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Like minded in the main, just not on promotion/relegation in the Aus rugby environment.

Have you looked at SARU/Currie Cup and how things have oanned out around promotion/relegation?

On promotion / relegation probably not an argument I would be pushing unless have super rugby turned into European short form heinkin cup format. That is where works well but yes not for super rugby in current long form format and not an advocate for that.


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[liquor box]

Was it Porky Morgan who funded the creation of the Broncos and split from Qld to join the NSW comp hence beginning the morph to the NRL. .

I take great joy stirring Broncos fans that they support a NSWRL team. Broncos have never been a QRL team.