Nuggetyflyhalf
Ted Fahey (11)
Insider source at RA tells me that an Origin type series is close and will feature soon. North vs South, NSW vs QLD.
Third Tier 2026
- Thread starter Nuggetyflyhalf
- Start date
wamberal99
Vay Wilson (31)
We used to have City v Country in NSW.
wamberal99
Vay Wilson (31)
I was there, along with a couple of hundred thousand others!
JRugby2
Nev Cottrell (35)
As in NZ and Aus will run their own independently?
Nuggetyflyhalf
Ted Fahey (11)
What do we think each team’s 1-15 will be for the tournament?
JRugby2
Nev Cottrell (35)
Really interesting article this morning the the Courier Mail re: the leaking of commercial revenue for each of the NRL clubs (shocked this was a leak, I would have assumed someone just bothered to do the work could have dived into annual reports, but anyway). The TL;DR (/didn't sub) version is that the broncos have fkn heaps of cash, and the tigers sweet FA (shocker).
Some things that I thought were interesting (ie: support my previous arguments against expansion/ club rugby being professional/ stadium usage etc.)
How little the tigers make from corporate hospitality at suburban stadiums: It's just $600k - and all of the clubs who play regularly out of the smaller suburban grounds (think the dragons, manly, knights, raiders) all make under 2.2M across 13ish home games a year. The Reds make 1.2M from their home games (2023 and 2024). Key point here being that I've seen debates in here and on the WTF facebook group before about how rugby should look to smaller grounds to build up the hype. This would be a key reason why you wouldn't do that.
Club Rugby is way off the mark in terms of what's needed to run a professional club: There is a huge gulf between club rugby and professional football. Wests in Brisbane reported a total revenue of $1.9M in 2024, roughly 15% of what perennial basket case club the West Tigers make yearly (13.4M). The obviously thing to say off the top is that trying to compare them right now, where one is in a professional environment and the other amateur isn't a fair comparison and that in a level playing field the numbers would be different - BUT - it still raises questions about where the money comes from if there were ever to be a professional club comp.
Some things that I thought were interesting (ie: support my previous arguments against expansion/ club rugby being professional/ stadium usage etc.)
How little the tigers make from corporate hospitality at suburban stadiums: It's just $600k - and all of the clubs who play regularly out of the smaller suburban grounds (think the dragons, manly, knights, raiders) all make under 2.2M across 13ish home games a year. The Reds make 1.2M from their home games (2023 and 2024). Key point here being that I've seen debates in here and on the WTF facebook group before about how rugby should look to smaller grounds to build up the hype. This would be a key reason why you wouldn't do that.
Club Rugby is way off the mark in terms of what's needed to run a professional club: There is a huge gulf between club rugby and professional football. Wests in Brisbane reported a total revenue of $1.9M in 2024, roughly 15% of what perennial basket case club the West Tigers make yearly (13.4M). The obviously thing to say off the top is that trying to compare them right now, where one is in a professional environment and the other amateur isn't a fair comparison and that in a level playing field the numbers would be different - BUT - it still raises questions about where the money comes from if there were ever to be a professional club comp.
The Ghost of Raelene
Rod McCall (65)
Tigers are stuffed. Leichhardt is a heap of crap and Campbelltown limited by requirement and interest and any works won't result in a turn around as the planned new stand is just a new version of whats there. No hospo money comes from the hills as nice as they are to look at.
Iv'e said it a million times about Clubs not having the resources required. Just because they want it doesn't mean they should get it. This is about developing Wallabies and not necessarily creating a fan experience. Fan experience etc should be pushed to Super Rugby to push.
Iv'e said it a million times about Clubs not having the resources required. Just because they want it doesn't mean they should get it. This is about developing Wallabies and not necessarily creating a fan experience. Fan experience etc should be pushed to Super Rugby to push.
Strewthcobber
Nick Farr-Jones (63)
The gulf isn't just at club level. The Rebels were spending $14m, and only generating $3-$4m outside of the broadcast distribution.
The Ghost of Raelene
Rod McCall (65)
Anyone that thinks Club land can be the third tier needs to give Northern Suburbs v Sydney Uni a watch.
This isn't talking down Max Burey at all but he's utterly dominating this game and he's no doubt got confidence and better skills from being in a pro system but a bench Super Rugby play maker is making some of the Uni boys look plain silly.
Burey deserves a third tier level game but at least 75% of the players out there should not be at that level.
This isn't talking down Max Burey at all but he's utterly dominating this game and he's no doubt got confidence and better skills from being in a pro system but a bench Super Rugby play maker is making some of the Uni boys look plain silly.
Burey deserves a third tier level game but at least 75% of the players out there should not be at that level.
burey was excellent but to be fair there are plenty of tah squad members back in Shute Shield that look very average
The Ghost of Raelene
Rod McCall (65)
Some deserve to be let go. Nature of a lot of those 27-30 in the Super Rugby squads are year by year pick ups that if used in a Super Rugby game probably mean your'e stuffed with injury or going really badly.
The guys I'd pick out of the game I bring up Norths v Syd Uni for a next tier squad would be"
Burey, O'Donnell, Bacon, Halaholo, Talataina, Matthews, Moore, Tagg, Mau'u
9/30 IMO looked capable of a higher level/outplayed their opponents. Of that 9, 4 had Super Rugby contracts this year with another having trialled with the Tahs (Mau'u) previously and two others played in the UK (Bacon, Moore) and Tagg having been with the Force in the past. That leaves Matthews as the sole non pro exposed player which is probably about right in terms of finding guys who deserve a chance and keeping a higher standard at that level then just re-badging the Club Sides as something higher.
The guys I'd pick out of the game I bring up Norths v Syd Uni for a next tier squad would be"
Burey, O'Donnell, Bacon, Halaholo, Talataina, Matthews, Moore, Tagg, Mau'u
9/30 IMO looked capable of a higher level/outplayed their opponents. Of that 9, 4 had Super Rugby contracts this year with another having trialled with the Tahs (Mau'u) previously and two others played in the UK (Bacon, Moore) and Tagg having been with the Force in the past. That leaves Matthews as the sole non pro exposed player which is probably about right in terms of finding guys who deserve a chance and keeping a higher standard at that level then just re-badging the Club Sides as something higher.
Weird reply. U need to watch more Shute Shield. Plenty of pro experienced players getting showed up every week
NSWelshman in London
Frank Row (1)
Always thought a good idea for a Tier 3 is to combine the Shute Shield Sides into their regions so Manly, Warringah, Norths (would say Gordon but with Newcastle will add Newy) make the Northern Sydney team (should get 30 quality players from this lot... Uni, Easts, Souths and Wicks make the southern Eastern team and West Harbour, Woodies, Gordon, Two Blues make the metro west team - do the same for Qld hospital with 3 teams, 3 from Canberra and maybe 2 from Perth and 1 from Melbourne (2 if we think we have it) and this keeps the tribalism in play and opens up a solid 3rd tier comp
The Ghost of Raelene
Rod McCall (65)
Not really if you see my earlier comments that I state it's off watching just that game. Do you disagree about a guy like Burey being a class above these guys?
Plenty of guys who have been amongst pro systems aren't up to it and that's why they aren't anymore. There are also a lot of people who get to call themselves 1st Graders who are fairly shit. Don't tell their friends or family that who love to say they've been hard done by.
Only have to see when these guys have been called upon like the Tahs 2023 how out of their depth they are. In the last 25 years there's been what 2-3 non pro players win the Ken Catchpole Medal?
It's a nice thought but been tried and failed badly. People don't buy in including the players. I know plenty of them that didn't want to play in it and they were at the time pros and guys who were just grade players and would rather get stuck into work.
The talent doesn't exist to expand and have a quality competition. 3 QLD teams means you'll have 90 players get a call up to one of these squads. 30 Club guys get a nod as the Reds players will be disbursed, then Reds academy guys now the Club players. Of the 50 Club players called up I feel very confident in saying that only 15 are really up to the task. Probably another 5 will get there with a year or 2 of development but then you have 30 guys spread 10 per side not up to it. They either don't play at all being lowest rank in the squad which is a waste of resources or they play and the standard drops in the game the the competition has no real value.
The number of Club players will likely be higher when you consider Wallabies squads and injuries which probably halves the amount in this example. Now your'e at 15 Clubies per side. Rugby in Aus doesn't have the capacity to support having two Club comps run back to back.
I think they are tracking on the right path by using existing infrastructure that will bring up the next best 5-10 guys at most into the pro system. Focus resources and have a continuity of coaching as well as a clear path to the pros if you can cut it.
Get it big fan of current Pathway system. Hence all the success NSW has enjoyed. Anyone would think your involved with it in junior levels.
The Ghost of Raelene
Rod McCall (65)
Not a big fan. But the last 5 years have been a lot better than the previous 20 where we sat on our hands and assumed that the Prem Club Comps would produce world class Wallaby sides like its 1984 whilst the rest of the world leaned into the professional sides doing the grunt work.
JRugby2
Nev Cottrell (35)
We saw in the last iteration of the NRC that when this happened, we lost the tribalism.
I would strongly argue that striving for tribalism - especially early on in a competitions existence - is the wrong goal, as it's pretty much unachieveable.
"Tribalism" to me is built on the stories of success and failure, and sub-narratives that run through the history of clubs. If we create new teams again, it will take decades to achieve even if we combine teams (as we saw in the last NRC).
Alternatively, if use the existing clubs - that tribalism will only be felt by those clubs existing supporters. It's pretty obvious to all of us that not every club side in the country can be represented - so the 90% of people who don't support a club chosen won't feel that tribalism anyway, and will likely take a generation or 2 for the saltiness of being left out to dissipate for new fans to jump on board and be enveloped into those story lines.
The next time they try this, Rugby Australia need to be content with the fact that the broader community will not give a fuck about who wins, or who is playing for the better part of 30 years. And that it is an investment in the future that will likely bleed money for that length of time - if not forever a la the NPC over the ditch - rather than being another revenue stream.
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PhilClinton
Mark Ella (57)
I don't necessarily disagree JR2 - but I'll play devils advocate and ask this.
What if I support one of the shitter teams in the Shute Shield or QPR? One of the many teams who haven't won anything of note for decades.
Now you chuck us into a national competition, and I watch the same team get pantsed by every club in Australia.
Does that damage the club brand in a negative sense where if you're consistently bottom 2-3 in your local comp and then bottom 2-3 in the national competition its going to make it harder to attract decent players?
I can see that being a potential deterrent for clubs to want to put their hands up.
What if I support one of the shitter teams in the Shute Shield or QPR? One of the many teams who haven't won anything of note for decades.
Now you chuck us into a national competition, and I watch the same team get pantsed by every club in Australia.
Does that damage the club brand in a negative sense where if you're consistently bottom 2-3 in your local comp and then bottom 2-3 in the national competition its going to make it harder to attract decent players?
I can see that being a potential deterrent for clubs to want to put their hands up.