Things that get up my nose about rugby these days

[Bowside]

No rucking has made it a farce at times. Also there is too much spiral passing when a simple floating pass is the better option.

As I said above, I dont mind all the spiteful stuff, as long as its not too cheap or dirty. Some of you have obviously never played flanker.

 

[Swat]

I saw a ruck from a distance once...

 

[Lee Grant]

I think there's a fair bit of grumpy old menitis (GOM) in this thread. No one complained about Ben Tune's aeroplane celebration back in the day.

I was going back further than Tuney; that was just the other day for me. But read my disclaimer in the first post.

Agree with a lot of what you are saying there Lee but like you said. We enjoy watching the game as a whole more now. I guess these few things are the bad we have to take with the good.

That is true, and it's why I wrote the preface on the first post in the thread. Rugby is much better now to watch (it was always good to play), but I reckon it can be made better, even without changing the laws of the game.


The rugby I watched as a young bloke was a horrible spectacle but we didn't know any better. People watching videos of test matches before 1970 may wonder why players kicked out the ball so much; but in those days you were allowed to kick the ball out on the full from anywhere on the park and gain ground. The exception was in Oz domestic rugby in which you had to kick the ball out from behind your 25 yard line in order to gain ground - a dispensation from the IRB, which was made universal later. This saw the advent of the running fullback; it set them free.


Folks watching real old matches (before 1958) may wonder why they didn't have specialist fetchers and why players hacked the ball through, or dribbled the ball forward at their feet on muddy pitches. It was because of the old tackled ball law which prohibited picking up the ball directly from a tackle (you had to at least tap it on the ground with your foot first). This old law went back to the early days of rugby and was a pain in the arse for flankers like me. Even then I couldn't understand the reason for it. Repeal of that law sped the game up more than any other law change in the history of the sport.


Those two law changes revolutionised rugby union.


There seems to be a consensus that folks want what is now called rucking to come back. [Rucking used to be the advancing of the ball up the field with the ball on the ground. When you were held, even standing up, you had to release the ball. Players tried to get the ball on the ground quickly yet still advance - think of a maul except the ball is at the players feet. It was also called a loose scrummage and believe it or not, was quite scientific.]


But TV has not only given rise to outlandlish try celebrations and posturing for the camera, but also allowed the general public to see slow motion video clips of shoeing players. This so-called "rucking" of players, deserved most of the time, has become anathema to rugby officials and will never come back. Whilst we can be wistful about it we should not expect it to return.


PS: I must admit to liking Ioane's turtle.

PS 2 - On "dribbling" mentioned above: in my young days we had to practise dribbling. Folks on this forum may conclude that I got it down to a fine art.

 

[Ruggo]

Lee, it's been a while since you ended a post with "but I digress". When I first joined this forum all your posts ended like that.

Could you be losing your touch?

 

[Brisbok]

But TV has not only given rise to outlandlish try celebrations and posturing for the camera, but also allowed the general public to see slow motion video clips of shoeing players. This so-called "rucking" of players, deserved most of the time, has become anathema to rugby officials and will never come back. Whilst we can be wistful about it we should not expect it to return.


PS: I must admit to liking Ioane's turtle.

Slightly contradictory? Serious question and without being a smartass at all, are you able to provide an example of a try celebration that annoys you Lee?

 

[Lee Grant]

I think folks take it for granted now - and it's excusable as there is not much rugby in Oz to talk about.

Which reminds me ......

 

[Lee Grant]

Slightly contradictory? Serious question and without being a smartass at all, are you able to provide an example of a try celebration that annoys you Lee?

We are all slightly contradictory - don't take it so seriously.

 

[Ageing Parent]

Dear Lee,
Thank you for initiating such a splendid thread……..which obviously has allowed a degree of “venting”….particularly from some of us old timers.
To add 2 more to the list for consideration :

1. (And at the outset, this one has already been canvassed indirectly – great video BTW) When was the last time you saw players arriving at a ruck comply with Law 16.2….
(a) All players forming, joining or taking part in a ruck must have their heads and shoulders no lower than their hips. (My emphasis)
Sanction: Free Kick
(b) A player joining a ruck must bind on a team-mate or an opponent, using the whole arm. The bind must either precede, or be simultaneous with, contact with any other part of the body of the player joining the ruck. (Did I hear someone mentioned Bakkies, Schalk & Richie ??)
Sanction: Penalty kick
And yes, I am a cranky old referee……

And I suppose if you are already face down in the mud having flopped there, your head & shoulders probably can’t get lower than your hips !


2. Teenage rugby players…….particularly when they are your own……because they know simply everything, and you can’t possibly be right because, like, your so OLD !


Cheers
AP

 

[Schadenfreude]

AACs swan dive.
Celebrate AFTER the try - I've seen him butcher a try because of that stupid habit.

Interpretations
Why not just play the laws of the game.

Management Wank Speech - "We are have set the goal of becoming number one"
Why don't you try to make rugby better?

Anything written by or about:
David Campese
Alan Jones
Players off the field

Egos
England

The Global Game
Fiji, Samoa et al deserve just as much respect as the rich people.

 

[Melbourne Terrace]

- teams only being referred to as their wanky franchise names by commentators, newspapers and worst of all supporters. i hate it when i look at the details section in the paper and i see Lions and Waratahs. where is lions? who does a waratahs represent, is it in Australia at all? WORST OF ALL IS CHANGING IT TO A BLOODY SPONSOR. QANTAS Wallabies and Rabo Direct Rebels makes me want to munt. At least europe gets this abomination right, they would drop dead before canning the tradition of their clubs.
- Australians whinging about there only being one way of playing rugby and that kicking and set piece emphasis is blasphemy and demanding rule changes to facilitate this.
- Shit Jerseys, enough said.
- Corporates, match day managers and marketing wankers ruining tradition or atmosphere with their stupid ideas. playing loud pop music with no relation to the game 24/7 on the PA, hosting the sevens during schoolies and picking big stadiums for games knowing it will kill the atmosphere when it doesn't fill (i'm looking at you homebush and jihad) for a few extra dollars.
- Penalty Advantage going on ALL bloody day. If the team that was infringed against still has the ball in a attacking position without being 'disadvantaged' from the illegal play, lower the arm and play on. This is how football do it, and they have even less attacking chances, and it just lets the game get on with it. Letting a team constantly smack at a defence line with no territorial gain is mundane when the ref is just going to blow it back after 10 minutes of nothing.

 

[Hawko]

That is true, and it's why I wrote the preface on the first post in the thread. Rugby is much better now to watch (it was always good to play), but I reckon it can be made better, even without changing the laws of the game.


The rugby I watched as a young bloke was a horrible spectacle but we didn't know any better. People watching videos of test matches before 1970 may wonder why players kicked out the ball so much; but in those days you were allowed to kick the ball out on the full from anywhere on the park and gain ground. The exception was in Oz domestic rugby in which you had to kick the ball out from behind your 25 yard line in order to gain ground - a dispensation from the IRB, which was made universal later. This saw the advent of the running fullback; it set them free.

Lee, This greatly depended on which team you watched. Watching Randwick play in the mid-70's to mid-80's was never a horrible spectacle unless you supported the opposing team. I agree the rules didn't help much but some teams still held the spirit of running Waratah rugby.

 

[Swat]

Sticking your tongue out like a fool 50 meters before the try line... *cough* Ashton *cough*

 

[Hardtackle]

Haven't read all the previous posts, so apolagies if mentioned before but the length of time for setting and re-setting scrums these days pisses me right off. Ditto line outs. Bloody Brown's cows wandering up to a line out, FFS.

 

[Roundawhile]

Commercialism

 

[Cutter]

Commercialism

That is what many of the grievances posted are derived from although no one else has acknowledged it. My view is that professional rugby took us down a path which was inevitable and has consequences, some of which, weren't anticipated and some of which have yet to play out. The commercial and profit driven motive of the game means taking more extreme measures to win and everything being about Brand. I don't like it, but JOC (James O'Connor) just said what many of the younger players were thinking and, perhaps, how all future players will think.

Michael Clarke and Brett Lee were the first two cricketers to cultivate a brand. Lee has been particularly successful in India post career as a result. Both are very measured about what they say in public.

In terms of consequences we've not yet considered, for anyone who has read The Red Dwarf books, I refer you to the genetically modified Scottish goalkeeper. For those who haven't read it, he was the same size and shape as a goal mouth. Scotland still lost.

 

[sudrugby]

I can add
- Differences about interpretations of the laws by northern and southern refs.
- Differences about sanctions for a same fault (Eye Gouge: Six weeks for Burger - 1 and half year for Attoub).
- Too much games in both continents (even worse in the south due to the long distances). We shouldn't be surprised of future doping cases.
- Devaluation of the scrum.
- Rugby Union is tending towards Rugby League -> too much physic and no brain

 

[SaderCheif]

- WORST OF ALL IS CHANGING IT TO A BLOODY SPONSOR. QANTAS Wallabies and Rabo Direct Rebels makes me want to munt. .

Yea, whats with that? You never hear ADIDAS All Blacks or the SASOL Springboks.
Annoying.

 

[triplet]

Part I

Our sport is more enjoyable to watch than it was in the olden times when I was young, but there are a few things about the modern game I would rather be without.

Some of them are trivial but hey, this is my thread.


• The try celebrations
Players in the old times were just as happy when they scored a try, believe me, and were probably more so because fewer were scored in those days. Team mates would give them a pat on the back too, and if the try won the game a few might jump up and down. But some of the convoluted celebrations these days wear a bit thin and others border on showing disrespect to opponents. One wonders if they would bother if the game wasn't on TV.

• Cheap shots
There were more punches thrown in days gone by, but somehow I find that old practice more acceptable than the cheap shots we see today. McCaw is a pain in the arse but nothing he has done was worth the sly knee to the head Quade Cooper gave him. Sure, it didn't hurt much and QC (Quade Cooper) got away with it, but I have no doubt a majority of neutrals would judge that it was done on purpose, even if the Commissioner didn't.

That's just one example. In the old days his lights would have been punched out and if the ref stopped it in time he would have been sorted out in a ruck later on.

• Yellow cards not being used
In the Baas v Oz game commentator Stuart Barnes mentioned that Barbarian games had been spoiled by the ref not awarding yellow cards. It's not just in the Baas games Stuart.

The card system was a good innovation but it has to be used more often than it is now. Some referees are too circumspect in fear of being assessed as too gung-ho. But if referees are too timid using cards they are going to be the same in other aspects of their performance and may as well be ditched or demoted anyway.

Sure, you don't want to go too far the other way but refs and their assessors, should be informed that they are expected to be firm – like Romain Poite.

• Tatoos
I hate them. Not on the Polynesian lads: it's part of their culture, but a white fellow whose arms look like road maps? Give me a break. If they want to look tough, they should show it on the park.
.

All of the above but particularly use of the yellow card. Why can't the referee visit each dressing room before the kick off and lay down the law ? For example - he tells all teams before kick off that this is the first and final warning. Any cynical use of the rules will cop a yellow card immediately even if it is in the first minute of the game. He should ask the players and coaching staff do they understand so that there is no bitchy comments later at the press conference.
On tattoo's...I heard a story about David Campese who was the guest speaker at a Rugby fundraiser some years back. After his talk he took questions from the floor and someone asked him, "What has Rugby League brought to Union?" His one word reply was "Tattoo's".......apt reply I reckon !

 

[sevenpointdropgoal]

The French.

The English.

 

[BPC]

On try celebrations, I think that a dispensation should be allowed depending on the quality differential between team. For example, if Portugal scored against the All Blacks then up to 5 minutes of hugging and self-congratulation is not unwarranted, particularly as they would probably be down 60 points at the time. An Australian who scored against Romania and then did the turtle should be beaten with a sack full of doorknobs.

No English player should be allowed to celebrate any point scoring. Why should they celebrate? Look who they have to play for.

I also agree with Blue, hugging is unacceptable unless you have just scored the winning try in the RWC Final/S14 Final/TN decider etc. Any display of manlove should be confied to a quick congratulatory pat on the bottom. (NO Hopoate style patting).