There is way too much ref "coaching" out there

[convenient wisdom]

Is it just me or does anybody else think that there are way too many players telling the ref what to do at almost every play in Super Rugby!!. Last nights game between the reds and rebels almost finished me ! As a junior ref myself, I can tell you that the youngsters do everything they see their heroes do, the difference being that most of them don't really know the rules. Unfortunately the more the kids call "forward pass, not releasing, offside, knock on etc etc, the less they are concentrating on what they are supposed to be doing, and the more they rile up themselves, each other, their opponents and the crowd !! I can only imagine how difficult it must be for the super refs with the constant cacophony and the need to justify every decision, as well as the assistant refs and TMO chatter. Many years ago, when I played, the ref was quite often likely to penalize chat and instead of justifying a penalty to the offending team, would just calmly jog another 10 metres, and another 10 ....and so on until you stopped whining. What happened to copping adversity on the chin and just getting on with doing the best you can ? Is it just a reflection of society where every perceived injustice a person suffers has an avenue for complaint, for redress, an ombudsman to appeal to. Without naming any specific players, some of them are coming across as massive sooks (even some of the captains) and I wish it would just stop, please.

 

[Pfitzy]

I agree, and when I was a player I did it too, quite often catching myself in the act and thinking perhaps I wasn't playing hard enough if I had breath to talk.

(There is a school of thought that perhaps I never played hard enough, but that is neither here nor there.)

I think, along with more yellow cards, it's something the IRB should put up as a primary law directive. But at the same time, the refereeing bodies need to stop being an ivory tower and become more involved in the game.

This is something the NRL does to a degree - if they recognise there is something that needs to change, they're onto it pretty quickly and refs are accountable.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I found the older, slower and more unfit I got the more I had advice for the ref.

 

[Dam0]

It usually does more harm than good anyway. The best captains are ones who have the odd discriminating word to the ref 2-3 times per game. Those that bleat and moan end up pissing the ref off and then the ref will ignore you when you actually have a point.

I can think of two classic cases recently:

Blues v Brumbies a few weeks ago when the ref ruled a Brumbies player intentionally knocked a ball on when defending 2 metres from the line. The pass was to an unmarked man who just had to catch and fall over the line. Ali had been whinging to the ref all game, and when Ali asked the ref to go upstairs to see about a PT, the ref completely ignored him and told him to go away. Contrast that with later in the game when the Brumbies captain managed to sweet talk the ref into going upstairs to check whether a ball had been carried back into the 22m or not - completely out of the jurisdiction of the TMO. I would say that the difference in result was largely down to the differing temperaments of the captains.

Force v Chiefs The Force captain and other players had a running battle with the ref all game, and were rude, whiny and obnoxious right from the start. At a crucial TMO decision the Force captain demanded that the ref ask the TMO about some obstruction. The ref basically ignored him and turned his back on him (which prompted even more swearing from the Force captain). The obstruction was marginal and the try was disallowed anyway for a knock on, but the point remains.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It usually does more harm than good anyway. The best captains are ones who have the odd discriminating word to the ref 2-3 times per game. Those that bleat and moan end up pissing the ref off and then the ref will ignore you when you actually have a point.

I can think of two classic cases recently:

Blues v Brumbies a few weeks ago when the ref ruled a Brumbies player intentionally knocked a ball on when defending 2 metres from the line. The pass was to an unmarked man who just had to catch and fall over the line. Ali had been whinging to the ref all game, and when Ali asked the ref to go upstairs to see about a PT, the ref completely ignored him and told him to go away. Contrast that with later in the game when the Brumbies captain managed to sweet talk the ref into going upstairs to check whether a ball had been carried back into the 22m or not - completely out of the jurisdiction of the TMO. I would say that the difference in result was largely down to the differing temperaments of the captains.
.

Good points.
i seem to remember Ali saying to the ref "what do i have to do to get you back onside" later in the game.
I thought that after that he got a couple of line ball calls go his way.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

The thing about bad captains is that being completely ineffective talking to the referee is just the start of their problems. If guys at that level can't recognize a flaw in their behavior, despite watching a HD replay of their game every week you just know they are going to piss off quite a lot of players/managers/coaches within the club and also fail to notice until it's way too late.

A good captain is vital when trying to retain players at your club. It's not the only factor. But watch over the next year to see if the teams with obnoxious captains unexpectedly lose a few quality experienced players.

 

[Dam0]

Good points.
i seem to remember Ali saying to the ref "what do i have to do to get you back onside" later in the game.
I thought that after that he got a couple of line ball calls go his way.

Actually that was a week later against the Highlanders, where he had a complete breakdown. I think Jonathon White felt sorry for him so maybe pity is something he could aim for.

 

[It is what it is]

Clever captains speak to the referee when their team is in possession after a penalty has been awarded their way or a try scored. The ref isn't under pressure to 'play on' and there is greater 'open to listen' evident. Sean Fitzpatrick and Cameron Smith (QLD RL) have mastered this technique.
Conversely, Refs hate captains only talking when they are obviously trying to slow play down and take away the opposing team's advantage.
Refs don't like being coached either.

 

[Athilnaur]

Higgers seems to be a natural at it. Non confrontational, makes reasonable requests the ref wants to agree with. Great at leading by example too. Like Horwill captaincy suits him well.